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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: My gameplay changes to Heroes 3
Thread: My gameplay changes to Heroes 3 This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
posted March 21, 2017 11:13 AM

Is there a package I can download these changes from? I'd like to try them out some time especially because of different AI patterns (which would be nice for a change, I can read the AI like a book now often

Theres one problem though: I like to play maps that are time based because it actualy forces you to act quick, take risks etc (thus make the game harder) but nerfing town portal makes some of these (harder) maps impossible because you need to be able to collect your creatures quickly...

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 21, 2017 11:19 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 21:20, 13 Sep 2017.

Okay guys for this post I will list the changes I did to artifacts. There were some clear unbalance in this department, which I have tried to make up for.

Artifacts made easier to get:
Rib Cage: Minor -> Treasure
Tunic of the Cyclops King: Major -> Minor
Ring of the Wayfarer: Major -> Minor
Garniture of Interference: Major -> Minor
Statesman's Medal: Major -> Minor
Diplomat's Ring: Major -> Minor
Ambassador's Sash: Major -> Minor

Artifacts made harder to get:
Still Eye of the Dragon: Treasure -> Minor
Boots of Speed: Minor -> Major

Artifacts disabled:
I play without Shackles of War, as I think they make the game way too easy.
Wizard's Well is disabled, it was way too easy to assemble and made Mysticism and Intelligence obsolete.
Cloak of the Undead King is disabled. It was just insane!
Note also that AI never assembles any combo artifacts, for example if it has all the component's for Wizard's Well it won't assemble it. (The only exception is if it get the artifacts in the exact order and place them into the heroes artifact slots.)

Artifacts enabled:
I have added the Campaign relic Vial of Dragon Blood, it's nice with a little variation among the relics.

Changes to artifacts:
Titan's Gladius: +12 attack & -3 defense -> +9 attack
Sentinel's Shield: -3 attack & +12 defense -> +9 defense
Titan's Cuirass: +10 power & -2 knowledge -> +8 power
Thunder Helmet: -2 power & +10 knowledge -> +8 knowledge (Now you don't have to take it off all the time.)
Lion's Shield of Courage: +4 -> +3 (Still the shield with the best stat bonuses.)
Sword of Judgement: +5 -> +3 (Still the sword with the best stat bonuses.)
Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment: +6 -> +3 (Still the helm with the best stat bonuses.)

Note that I also edited my two earlier posts, as I have done some changes since then.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 21, 2017 11:28 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:30, 21 Mar 2017.

@markmasters
Sorry, there is no patch. These are all things I've have implemented in the game. But you could easily make the changes you wan't, most things can be changed with editing simple text files (With TxtEdit for example) and adding them with MMArchive.
There are a few things like editing the secondary skills that are a bit more complicated, it's done through hex editing...
The changes I did to AI Values will really make AI unpredictable and much more interesting. What I can tell you is that it will cast Blind a lot less, mass spells a lot more and Resurrection and Animate Dead more.
Yeah I realise not all people will like the changes to Town Portal and Dimension Door, but that's the way I like it to be.

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robizeratul
robizeratul


Known Hero
posted March 25, 2017 08:35 PM

what about hero specialties ?did u edit that?

cool thread!

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 25, 2017 08:47 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 20:50, 25 Mar 2017.

Thank you.

No I haven't edited specialities, I have thought about it though and I do know how, I just don't know how to change the speciality icon on the hero screen.
Melodia and Inteus would be the first in line for a new speciality.

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robizeratul
robizeratul


Known Hero
posted March 26, 2017 01:20 AM

Tried to edit specialities in wog but don't know how without ERM...

Anyway, I hope you continue these posts, very inspirational stuff !

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 10, 2017 05:20 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:03, 10 Sep 2017.

Changes to the heroes starting armies:
Since Zubin, Vokial, Pasis and Ignissa all starts with Artillery, they now start with ballista instead of level 2 units.

Changes to heroes specialities:
Melodia: Fortune -> Air Shield (Should be a bit more useful than Fortune, right?)
Luna: Fire Wall -> Slayer (Yes I know Fire Wall with Luna was awesome, still I have my reasons for changing it and Slayer is now a mass spell and also works on ballista/cannon, so should'nt be that bad.)

Changes to the druid class:
Air Magic 2 -> 3
Earth Magic 4 -> 5
Fire Magic 1 -> 2
Water Magic 4 -> 5
Before it was almost impossible for Coronius to learn Fire Magic and pretty hard for Melodia to learn Air Magic, they should have a better
chance at that now.
Note that Coronius' Slayer is now a mass spell at Expert Fire Magic and Melodia has Air Shield speciality instead of that useless Fortune speciality.

Changes to creatures growth on the adventure map:
Air Elemental: 8-12 -> 12-25 (Like Water Elemental)
Storm Elemental: 6-12 -> 12-20 (Like Ice Elemental)
Earth Elemental: 16-30 -> 10-20 (Like Fire Elemental)
Magma Elemental: 16-25 -> 10-16 (Like Energy Elemental)
Sharpshooter: 5-12 -> 10-20
Troll: 8-12 -> 8-16
Enchanter: 5-12 -> 8-12 (Like Diamond Golem)

Improved speed of units:
Dwarf: 3 -> 4 (Makes Dwarven Treasury a bit more challenging)
Dendroid Guard: 3 -> 4
Stone Golem: 3 -> 4
Walking Dead: 3 -> 4 (Makes HotAs Churchyard a bit more challenging)
Diamond Golem: 5 -> 6 (Should be faster than Iron and Gold Golem imo)

The changes to speed from 3 -> 4 makes units less useless, when affected by slow. Before they could go as low as speed 1, now they will have at least 2.

I completely reinvented the peasants, since they we're so incredibly bad that I would not even count them as a level 1 unit.
This is the new Peasant:
Cost: 10 -> 50
Fight Value: 15 -> 75
AI Value: 15 -> 75
Growth: 25 -> 15
HP: 1 -> 6
Speed: 3 -> 4
Attack: 1 -> 4
Defense: 1 -> 4
Damage: 1 -> 1-3
The above changes to peasants, makes them comparable to a normal skeleton, just not undead of course.

Besides peasants I improved:
Boar:
Damage 2-3 -> 2-4 (Makes it more comparable to a Wolf Rider)

Mummy:
Cost: 300 -> 250
Fight Value: 270 -> 320
Ai Value: 270 -> 320
Attack: 7 -> 9
Defense: 7 -> 9
Damage: 3-5 -> 3-6

Changes to damage ranges:
To control Bless and Curse a bit, I decided to bring the damage range of the three units with the most extreme damage ranges a bit closer together.
Air/Storm Elemental: 2-8 -> 3-7
Hell Hound/Cerberi: 2-7 -> 3-6
Nomad: 2-6 -> 3-5 also cost changed from 200 -> 250 gold, they were too cheap before. (Now same cost as a Mummy)

Reduced shots of units:
To make the ammo cart a bit more useful, I reduced the shots of some units, generally downgraded units, now have half the shots of their upgraded versions and max number of shots is 24.
Wood Elves. 24 -> 12
Mages: 24 -> 12
Cyclops: 16 -> 12
Storm & Ice Elemental: 24 -> 16
Halflings: 24 -> 16
Sharpshooters: 32 -> 24
Enchanters: 32 -> 24
Catapult & Ballista: 24 -> 16  

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted May 02, 2017 10:45 PM

Peasant is too expensive. 1lvl unit are generaly too expensive.
I suggest to replace statistic with sceleton and peasant. Because pixie, imp, goblin, gremlin are weaker than sceleton too.
Goblins, zombies, ipms needs boost too.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted May 03, 2017 11:36 AM

Quote:
Mystic Orb of Mana: Treasure -> Minor
Cape of Conjuring: Treasure -> Minor

I think they shoudl stay treasure to boost spellcasters, which are generally inferior in this game. Also you will have too many minor artifacts this way.
____________

The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 03, 2017 01:35 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:11, 12 Sep 2017.

@Warmonger I don't see a problem with more minor artifacts, it was major artifacts that were perhaps too many of. They are more balanced like this imo and those two artifacts you mentioned give +3 while the two pairs that gives +1 and +2 are treasure artifacts. Besides it makes it a bit harder to collect Wizards Well and Ring of the Magi.

Edit: Changed both of these back to treasure for certain reasons.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted May 04, 2017 02:52 PM

What about improving a Scholar Skill, so we could trade all level spells not only 1-4 level?

Also what about making an Armageddon as level 5 fire spell? It still is better than Chain Lightning, Meteor Shower and Implosion when comes to total damage.

Eagle Eye could be handy when also allow us to learn all level spells and even better if allow us to learn spells from creatures(Like in Heroes 5)

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 04, 2017 03:31 PM

Hmm I don't know how to improve Scholar and I actually think it's fine when compared to Eagle Eye. But Eagle Eye could really use a boost beyond my capabilities.

Armageddon would make sense as a level 5 spell, only problem is it would make poor Gold Dragons vulnerable to Armageddon as well, so I think it's best to remain a level 4 spell.

Again if I knew how, I would make Eagle Eye much better.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted May 04, 2017 10:22 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Again if I knew how, I would make Eagle Eye much better.
You really need to give Era a try. Besides the mods that already exist you can do whatever you want to Eagle Eye, if you don't like the perfect solution they already have. Of course, you loose the three phoenix growth but I'm betting you can find a solution for that too, once you learn ERM.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 04, 2017 10:25 PM

Yeah maybe, but I'm afraid I'm too much of a HotA fanboy.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 14, 2017 08:58 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 21:49, 10 Sep 2017.

I recently updated my 4 big posts in this thread, if anyone is interested.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 11, 2017 03:36 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 03:42, 11 Sep 2017.

Making navigation worse is the worst decision ever.

In most cases there is little water and you lose all movement every.time.you.board.or.unboard.a.boat, making Navigation skill useless even in many water situations and water maps, since the distance you cover is so little anyways.

By increasing normal sailing speed this only worsens the problem since it makes it more likely to get to the "boarded boat->Sail and unboard" on the same turn scenario.

So, you made an already very bad skill completely useless...

_______________

Despite my rage there,
Other changes are nice and known.

I would make Gold Dragons be resurrectable by the spell Sacrifice, since it is a 5th level spell and Gold dragons are only suppossed to be inmune to level 1-4. This would work making the sacrifice second phase 5th level.

_______________

The changes to titan's gladius and sentinel shield are totally unecessary and take off the only interesting features of those artifacts (trading one primary skill for a penalty in other) that made them unique.

_______________

Also, why nerf AI by not making it use Berserk and less Blind? This was a few spells that could make the AI useful, it's weak enough normally.
____________
CLICK on the image to discover H4 Greatest Mod!

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 11, 2017 09:06 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 09:31, 11 Sep 2017.

Wow take it easy there NimoStar.
About Navigation I found the skill much overpowered before, expert Navigation gave +150% (!) to the skill. Specialists could almost cross an XL map in one turn, it was stupid and Battle Mages could'nt even learn it. There are usually also much free stuff in the water, like ressources, Shipwrecks, chests etc.
About Gold Dragons being able to resurrect through sacrifice, interesting idea, though the resurrect part is a 4th level spell and I don't know how to change that.
About the 4 Titan's artifacts I found them unbalancing giving +something and -something, equipping Titan's Gladius would give a difference between skills of 15 for example. Not having to take the Thunder Helmet off is also a bonus.
Btw the AI would never cast Berserk anyway, it's not something I have done, it's programmed not to cast it.
And Blind, I got tired of AI casting it all the time, now it uses much more mass spells, resurrect, animate dead etc., it makes for a tougher, more unpredictable and interesting AI.
What is so good about it casting Blind anyway?, there are at least three spells to get rid of it either Dispel or Cure, which are cheaper than Blind or Anti Magic which will even protect you from getting blinded again. It will still cast Blind fairly often though.
Btw I am still tinkering with those AI values, for example Bless, Curse and Forgetfulness, Meteor Shower and Inferno will likely go up in priority.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 11, 2017 09:55 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 09:55, 11 Sep 2017.

You lose two turns by going to the sea, one for embarking and one for disembarking. The turns you spend actually *on* the sea are not that many, plus most mapmakers use whirpools for sea transporation. Nobody would ever take the navigation skill for such meager bonuses...
In the land there are also "free" stuff if that is what you call resource trinkets and creature banks. And they don't require to lose two turns or to invest 1000 gold and 10 wood on a boat. Plus the "free" stuff is flotsams which don't have nearly anything, and Sea Chests which can't give off experience. In shipwrecks you need to fight guardians so it is not "free", and even then they only give gold and the ocassional treasure-level artifact (of which you made there be less)

* * *

About the titan's gladius this difference is what made it interesting as a relic artifact, now compare it to things like Sword of Judgement, which IIRC give like +6 to every skill for a total of 24, or the Dragon Scale Armor, or the Celestial Necklace of Bliss... even the celectial necklace gives a better net increase than the gladius, and it uses the normally near-useless Neck slot, rather than the always-useful right hand slot. (actually, +12, -3 is just a 9 net exchange, and it would be countered as such if you used the shield AND the sword at the same time)

* * *

Now, I am not saying you *have* to revers ethese, I am just giving my inputs - Since other people would like to play your modification as well, a well-reasoned balance is better than just a one-man taste, woudn't you agree?

Anyways, as I said, most of the modifications are reasonable... just not those ones...
____________
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 11, 2017 10:36 AM

Usually players look up for a challenge, not for "diversity" in AI's casting pool. Unless you code the whole thing from scratch, only 4 spells can help AI to compete, and those are mass slow/haste, blind and forgetfulness. Maybe boring but effective. Every turn AI will cast bless, curse or other worthless scam that bad codes make him think is good will basically help you and not him. For me an appropriate solution to create a decent challenge would be to reduce cost of those spells when used by AI and greatly increase cost when used by human. But not for both, AI needs boost.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 11, 2017 10:39 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:44, 11 Sep 2017.

@NimoStar Well to be honest maybe I was a little hard on Navigation, I am thinking about making Navigation a little better, but not 50%/100%/150% like before, maybe 30%/60%/90% or 33%/67%/100%, but I am not sure yet.

If you read the artifact section, you would see that Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment, Sword or Judgement and Lion's Shield of Courage now all give +3.
And Yes IF you have both the Titan's sword and shield or the armor and helmet they balance each other out, but if not they are unbalanced.

I like inputs and I like critique, but I will make the decision, but of course listening and thinking about said inputs.  

@Salamandre But you have got to admit mass spells are really good, mass curse, bless, haste, slow, cure, dispel, forgetfulness, air shield, bloodlust, sorrow etc. and now it uses those a lot more and you never know what to expect, keeps it interesting and challenging. Before I almost always expected Blind, which is not that good for AI anyway.  

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