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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: My gameplay changes to Heroes 3
Thread: My gameplay changes to Heroes 3 This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Djangoo
Djangoo


Hired Hero
posted June 15, 2018 09:23 PM
Edited by Djangoo at 21:25, 15 Jun 2018.

Cool, I'd like to hear your opinion.

So far the AI seems to perform better(or placebo much? ;D ), but I think its using more mass spells  which is a big plus. So far I'm pleased with the gameplay, even with Haste/Slow and TP change it still plays like classic heroes, with one exception: Frost Ring as level 4 just feels wrong.

The animation and sound of Frost Ring is just so lame, even if it makes sense for me to have a good water spell balance wise, I will probably roll this one back, because good ol' Meteor Shower fits this role way better. And I would not go so far as to change animations etc. I still want the vanilla feel to a certain extent.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 15, 2018 11:03 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:07, 15 Jun 2018.

This might sound really strange, but I actually considered switching Frost Ring and Meteor Shower myself.
Since Water lack in damage spells and Earth already has Implosion, it could perhaps be a nice idea or maybe not.
What Water Magic do have is Bless, Prayer and Clone and they could also be consired offensive.
I still think Earth Magic is 10 times stronger than the other schools, especially because of Town Portal, Resurrection and Slow.

And yes I also find it a lot more fun and challenging, with AI casting mass spells, instead of only Blind, damage spells and elementals.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 16, 2018 12:42 AM

I'm not sure if you already changed this but when you make Mass Haste only give plus 4 of speed and keep Mass Prayer at plus 4 you turn Haste useless at maximum level, unless one wants to save spell points or have only one of the magic schools, i.e. you just made Air mostly useless and Water the second best school, if it wasn't already.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2018 02:33 AM
Edited by Djangoo at 02:49, 16 Jun 2018.

True. I thought about direct comparison to Prayer also and found +4 fair, since Haste is lvl 1 spell, the other a spell 4 with high mana cost.

But Problem with Air Magic is that it is balanced around having Fly/DD and if you want to play without Fly/DD this school does not offer much and is easily the worst.

So yes, I will leave Haste at +5.

I also moved Dispel from Water, but that does not compensate for lack of Fly/DD. Do you guys have any suggestions how to make Air Magic bit more viable choice?

I know Phoenix4ever has made Magic Mirror a mass spell, but that seems a bit radical to me, I imagine that could be quite OP if casted at the start of a fight.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 16, 2018 08:05 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:09, 16 Jun 2018.

I just made a very long post on my phone, but somehow it got deleted.
Okay here I go again, in a shorter version this time:
I think expert Haste is fair at +4 considering how cheap and easy it is to learn.
Hypnotize is also twice as good as before and I think mass Magic Mirror is fair, since it's very hard to learn and very expensive.
I'm also considering lowering mana cost of Precision. (I don't see why it should be more expensive than Bloodlust, when it affects fewer units.)
And Hypnotize I will probably also make cheaper, it's too expensive compared to Blind.
Air is an okay school, but you probably use Haste, Fly and DD the most. (And Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning, but they don't benefit much from Air Magic.)
If you ban Fly and DD, Air Magic is probably not very attractive, but then ask yourself if it's really neccessary to ban them. DD is only once per day at all levels, I think that's fair.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2018 11:43 AM
Edited by Djangoo at 12:02, 16 Jun 2018.

I decided to buff Magic Mirror effect from 20/20/30/40 to 40/40/60/80 and reduce the cost of Hypnotize from 18/16/16/16 to 18/14/14/14.

Its too bad that Magic Mirror does not block the effect if the enemy spell is cast via mass spell or AOE. I think its role is to protect a high value stack from direct damage and debuff, so I will not make it a mass spell. Better chance for 1 stack fits its role better than bad chance for lots of stacks imo. Protection from Elemental fits the purpose of mass protection better.

Even Magic Mirror 100% might not be OP, because it is not abusable, I tested, and the AI refuses to cast direct damage spells and Blind on 100% mirrored units.
But the RNG vs seems flawed, I have seen several 10+ Implosion casts in a row in test battle from the AI on my 20% mirrored stack, yet when I play the same battle vs myself in Hot Seat, the mirror effect appears way more often. Strange.

You also have a good point with Haste +4; I'm undecided but I will keep it at +5 until I have played more games and tested everything.

I do not ban Fly/DD 100% of the time, but your change to Dimension Door sounds  very reasonable, will implement that too,

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 16, 2018 02:45 PM

The thing with Magic Mirror vs AI is that it actually does'nt care whether the chance is 20% or 100%, it will just avoid casting on that unit anyway. So you buffing Magic Mirrors chance to work on a single stack won't really do anything against AI, but as a mass spell it will.
And like you said mass spells and area spells can't be reflected, so I don't think it's OP as a mass spell.

I'm glad you like my DD idea.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2018 03:11 PM
Edited by Djangoo at 15:12, 16 Jun 2018.

You can try it in test battle , it worked like this for me:

I did  50 Angels (1 Stack) vs 200 Archers (1 Stack). AI only had Implosion.

Then I mirrored the Angels.

With 20% Chance AI spamcasted Implosion on Angels. With 100% chance it did not cast at all.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 16, 2018 04:00 PM

Really?, I have seen different results, but perhaps it's because you only had one stack. If you had 7 stacks, it would probably just have selected another target.

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Djangoo
Djangoo


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2018 04:25 PM
Edited by Djangoo at 16:26, 16 Jun 2018.

Yes, if you have unmirrored creatures, the AI will always attack these first  



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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 16, 2018 04:38 PM

That's why I consider single Magic Mirror pretty useless against AI, as it will just select another target, okay you can lose War Unicorns instead of Gold Dragons, but still...

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RoseKavalier
RoseKavalier


Honorable
Famous Hero
posted June 16, 2018 07:50 PM

AI does not cast spells if reflect chance is 50%+.
Also reflect does not work against AI, other than weighing what should be its target. Source

If you want to make it useful, make it ~50% at Expert, single target and it will act like a glorified one-way Anti-Magic.
____________
My Let's Plays: Metataxer's Revenge - The Empire of The World 2

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 17, 2018 12:31 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:11, 17 Jun 2018.

Updated the first post and applied the following changes:

* Lowered mana cost of Precision from 8/6/6/6 -> 6/4/4/4 to match that of Bloodlust.
* Lowered mana cost of Weakness from 8/6/6/6 -> 6/4/4/4 to match that of Stone Skin.
* Lowered mana cost of Land Mine from 18/15/15/15 -> 12/9/9/9 to match that of Fireball.
* Lowered mana cost of Hypnotize from 18/15/15/15 -> 15/12/12/12 to make it more comparable to Blind.
* Lowered mana cost of expert Bless and Curse from 10 -> 8, I do not consider Bless/Curse as strong as Haste/Slow and they affect fewer units.

The above changes makes Air, Fire and Water Magic better and makes Earth Magic slightly less overpowered.

* Melodia's skills changed back to normal, even though I think her special suck.
* Growth of Water and Ice Elementals changed back to normal, on the adventure map.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted June 17, 2018 01:01 PM

Some very nice changes, particularly when it comes to spells. Some skills will still remain niche/underpowered but short of changing their mechanics there is not much to be done about it.
____________
So you're saying.. the dead are rising from their graves?
Excellent! I need some target practice!

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 17, 2018 01:11 PM

Thank you, Elvin.

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Sir_Juas
Sir_Juas

Tavern Dweller
posted June 17, 2018 10:20 PM
Edited by Sir_Juas at 22:54, 17 Jun 2018.

FfuzzyLogik, phoenix4ever:

Yes iīm noticing the dedication and quality of the answers of those users and it is almost unbelievable how kind they are

I think there are no stupid questions guys theyre helping me a lot. I didnīt hex mod anything yet because iīm ".txt modding" "Heroes Complete" and when i oppened it on Fhred i noticed that the code looks a bit different than what you talk about and i canīt find the stuff.
So i will just keep reading untill i decide if i solve that or if i just redo all the .txts on HotA like "upgrading" the project.
(even though i have a question about that, when i opened CRTRAITS on HotA i found it to be identical to the "Complete" one... where can i find the new creatures & stuff?)

Phoenix is there a way you could share your mod? like uploading the whole Heroes 3 Folder? It would be nice to try it out

Thanks guys, happy modding

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 17, 2018 10:49 PM

^^ Yes, I suppose I could upload it somewhere, if there is some interest.
I suppose I should include both the txt files and the exe file then?
But first of all I made this thread to show people what I have done and maybe to inspire them a bit. Also I keep changing stuff, so tomorrow things might be different. But the txt editing is very easy, so most people can do it, hex editing is a lot more complicated though.

Regarding all the Cove stuff, creatures, heroes, spells etc., they are not located in txt. files, so they must be hex edited, which as I said above is a bit complicated if you don't know what you are doing...

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 17, 2018 10:54 PM

Magic Mirror is always useless against anything, it can just be dispelled...

To have minimum use make it a Mass Effect at Expert (evebn if just for 20 or 30%, anything else is a waste of a 5th level.

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Sir_Juas
Sir_Juas

Tavern Dweller
posted June 17, 2018 11:08 PM

It would be nice to see the changes on hota.
If you just "rar" the whole H3 folder we wouldn`t need to install anything

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Sir_Juas
Sir_Juas

Tavern Dweller
posted June 17, 2018 11:09 PM
Edited by Sir_Juas at 23:12, 17 Jun 2018.

NimoStar said:
Magic Mirror is always useless against anything, it can just be dispelled...

To have minimum use make it a Mass Effect at Expert (evebn if just for 20 or 30%, anything else is a waste of a 5th level.


Yes if it is not mass it is kind of useless to waste a turn just trying to guess who could be the victim of the next spell.
Or make it level 3...  im gonna try that

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