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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: My gameplay changes to Heroes 3
Thread: My gameplay changes to Heroes 3 This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 11, 2017 10:59 AM

I wouldn't say mass bless/curse/bloodlust/sorrow are good, in the current state of the game they are a scam, only a bonus when you already won and don't know what other spell to cast. On the other side air shield, forgetfulness and the goodly haste/slow are the only ones who actually can change the outcome of a battle. And blind is great for AI because it forces you to heal every turn instead of using the offensive spells -you admitted you hated it, and for a reason!

Imo best and indisputable check would be to try same battles vs AI when it has only those few but effective spells then try in your version and compare casualties. I suspect there will be no match.

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verynice
verynice

Tavern Dweller
posted September 11, 2017 11:11 AM

I strongly disagree with normalizing stats like you did with the Gladius and the nerfs to other powerful artifacts. Extreme and unpredictable power swings are fun and create opportunities for both the player and the AI.
Variation and unpredictability is a lot more important for the player vs. AI experience(and to some extent the whole game) than balance is.

Salamandre said:
Usually players look up for a challenge, not for "diversity" in AI's casting pool. Unless you code the whole thing from scratch, only 4 spells can help AI to compete, and those are mass slow/haste, blind and forgetfulness. Maybe boring but effective. Every turn AI will cast bless, curse or other worthless scam that bad codes make him think is good will basically help you and not him. For me an appropriate solution to create a decent challenge would be to reduce cost of those spells when used by AI and greatly increase cost when used by human. But not for both, AI needs boost.

As mentioned above, when it comes to fighting AI I think there is a lot more merit to having an unpredictable AI rather than a predictable one that plays perfectly.
Given that the AI needs a significant resource and number advantage to even challenge an experienced player, I would rather it used that advantage to create interesting tactical situations  instead of following an identical optimal strategy every game.

When playing the AI you are essentially playing against the map rather than an actual opponent: Everything the AI does is a direct product of it interacting with the map. It has no personal preferences, no relationship with its opponents and no macro planning of any kind.
So unless you make the AI overly eager to diversify its choices and utilize map objects(even suboptimally) you are going to be playing the exact same opponent every game.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 11, 2017 11:23 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:34, 11 Sep 2017.

verynice Ok I can see how it would be dividing with the changing of stats of those 3 relics, but I just did'nt like them and found them way too powerful. You had Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment, which adds +6 to all stats that's +24 (!) then you had Thunder Helmet and Crown of Dragontooth which both adds "only" +8 and are also relics, where is the sense in that?
The same with Sword of Judgement, it adds +20 and Titan's Gladius only adds +9 and is also a relic.
Same with Lion's Shield, it adds +16 and Sentinel's Shield only adds +9 and is also a relic.
Now they all add +12 and are still the best helmet, sword and shield for stats.

Sounds like you agree with me in the spell department, I like when you have an unpredictable AI and you try to find ways to counter it, for example if AI casts mass curse and it affects all your units, do you choose to fight on with mass slow or haste or maybe you can counter it with mass bless or cure or dispel, there are many opportunities. Or if it casts mass sorrow and you suddenly have -3 morale, do you fight on or can you counter it with mirth, cure, dispel, anti-magic etc.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 11, 2017 11:54 AM

Titan's Gladius and Sentinel Shield were some of the weakest relics, their only value was in their strategical decision to lose either attack or defense... and +3 to every stat in a throwaway slot is better then +9 to a single stat using the most important slot.

Even tomes of magic are more powerful than that.

About AI spells... maybe it is more fun being "unpredictable", but AI is weak. If you make AI use weaker spells, give it some kind of other bonus to compensate. As they mentioned, Blind forces you to spend your hero turn to counter it, that's its real value, while most other spells can be outright ignored.

Increasing the power of Hypnotize was a nice touch though since it was practically unusable.

***

Now about navigation, I am glad I could convince you of some sense on the issue. The thing is, as it is almost always useless, the few times it is useful should change the game a little bit. Almost all maps have zero or very little water, and teleporters, portals and whirpools, so it's not like some extra water movement will change the outcome of a multiplayer game. And vs AI you are expected to take a water-centered skill in a water-centered map...

But you don't even in most cases since you get Water Walk, Dimension Door and Fly (When they are not banned), plus Town Portal and Boots of levitation, all of which also make going to the sea useless. Hoorray. What's left for the poor pirates. I though you liked HoTA/Cove
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 11, 2017 12:55 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 12:57, 11 Sep 2017.

Would you ignore Mass Curse, Slow, Sorrow or Forgetfulness?
It's still casts Blind pretty often, just not ALL the time.

Glad you like the new Hypnotize, compared to Blind and Berserk it was a joke before.

About sea movement I agree with you a lot, but in my map, which is an XL +underground map composed of many smaller and bigger islands water movement actually plays a big role, at least until you get WW/TP/Fly/DD or Boots or Levitation or Angel Wings.
But there are also 2 sea movement artifacts and they can be combined to Admiral's Hat and then getting in and out of boats won't be an issue no more. A high-level Navigation specialist with Admiral's Hat is powerful in such a map.
But I am still thinking about it, I don't know Air Magic feels a bit weak to me now, with Haste and Dimension Door nerfed and Fly is useless if you have Angel Wings. So I am considering either removing Angel Wings or having DD work 2 times a day at advanced or expert level, I don't know yet, DD also works on water so...

About Cove I think they are still very powerful, maybe the best town overall.

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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted September 23, 2017 03:09 PM

May I share mine too ?

I made Pyre Logistic specialist and Torosar Archery specialist.

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Aquilo
Aquilo

Tavern Dweller
Pecking at goblins
posted September 23, 2017 07:35 PM

Wow, these changes are convenient indeed (well maybe most of them).

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