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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 18, 2019 10:32 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 22:44, 18 Jan 2019.
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It has no doubt been mentioned before but how come frost ring, fireball and inferno not gotten a higher sp multiplier? They are are x10 like a mass magic arrow.. Meanwhile meteor is x25.
Town portal is obvious but costing more movement should do the trick. Even half movement would do.
Dimension door could receive a similar treatment or at least limit the amount of uses per day to 1-2. I finished the Armageddon's Blade final mission on day 2 because once I saw enemy position with view air, all I had to do was make some jumps.
Is it possible for Landmine to summon more mines across the battlefield? Or summon them within an area? Its H5 counterpart summoning the mines within a 5x5 area turned the spell from forgettable to fantastic!
Regarding skills.. Is it possible to increase luck/morale cap to 5? Due to the ease of finding morale/luck boosting artifacts or locations, getting Luck or Leadership tends to be a waste of skills.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 18, 2019 10:56 PM |
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Edited by Lth3 at 22:58, 18 Jan 2019.
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phoenix4ever said:
Well better "useless" (going to 3 towns is still powerful) than completely game breaking.
A guy with Earth Magic and Town Portal VS a guy without = match already decided.
Town Portal to ALL towns, infinite amounts per day ruins so many things: You only need one hero, you never need to travel by water, you get infinite mana, making Mysticism, Intelligence, Scholar, Eagle Eye completely useless and then it ruins Inferno's expensive Castle Gates.
Town Portal in it's default form is just 
agreed
better middle-way-balanced than "useless" or "game-breaking". TP/DD/Fly on M sized is disabled by default for HotA using tournament rules, so that's something to counteract game-breakingness. otherwise, when playing bigger than that this spell should be strong and desireable, even necessary for end game really. but not as strong that you couldn't do without for some time
it's like when you get TP you don't even need scouts and other heroes really. you can just use your main hero for the rest of the game. that's wrong and should be amended
Elvin said:
Town portal is obvious but costing more movement should do the trick. Even half movement would do.
that would be unfair for those who have more movement points, like logistic specialty heroes
or you mean something like 1000 movement points for 1x TP ?
Elvin said:
Dimension door could receive a similar treatment or at least limit the amount of uses per day to 1-2. I finished the Armageddon's Blade final mission on day 2 because once I saw enemy position with view air, all I had to do was make some jumps.
it is already 1-2 times like that. you just need to enable 'Tournamet Rules'
problem is it doesn't cost much movement and you can use it with full potentional without having Air Magic, while you cannot say the same about TP and Earth Magic
it is unfair to those who have Air Magic, as it makes Air Magic school less useful
increasing movement point cost when not having Air Magic is the solution in my opinion, as it will make Air Magic as much desirable as Earth Magic
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 18, 2019 11:14 PM |
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Lth3 said:
increasing movement point cost when not having Air Magic is the solution in my opinion, as it will make Air Magic as much desirable as Earth Magic
Then we are back to all players always choosing Earth and Air Magic. (Which most people does anyway)
But what about Fire and Water Magic?, Water can be considered for certain towns or as a 3rd magic school, but Fire is never really worth picking, except for Berserk.
Players should'nt always feel forced to pick Earth and Air Magic and forget about Fire and Water, it's just boring and predictable gameplay.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 18, 2019 11:14 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 23:20, 18 Jan 2019.
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Lth3 said:
Elvin said:
Town portal is obvious but costing more movement should do the trick. Even half movement would do.
that would be unfair for those who have more movement points, like logistic specialty heroes
or you mean something like 1000 movement points for 1x TP ?
No, literally half movement as in 50% of total. If it cost a fixed amount of movement points, specialists would be able to use the spell more times per day than normal heroes. Specialists are still better off because the other 50% is far more than normal heroes.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted January 19, 2019 07:43 AM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Lth3 said:
increasing movement point cost when not having Air Magic is the solution in my opinion, as it will make Air Magic as much desirable as Earth Magic
Then we are back to all players always choosing Earth and Air Magic. (Which most people does anyway)
But what about Fire and Water Magic?, Water can be considered for certain towns or as a 3rd magic school, but Fire is never really worth picking, except for Berserk.
Players should'nt always feel forced to pick Earth and Air Magic and forget about Fire and Water, it's just boring and predictable gameplay.
I've been playing mirrorred XL size template a lot recently where i enabled almost everything and by the time i enter mirror portals( 125-135) my army will be like 200 wyv monarchs, 100 Archangels, 50 titans etc. In this kind of FB's expert berserk or clone alone ( especially with cape of silence equipped) is enough to win the game. But again this is an exception, remove clone and berserk from game and everyone will curse whenever they are offered water/fire magic. I guess earth will always stay dominant whatever nerf/buff is applied.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 19, 2019 07:55 AM |
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Orrinisthebest said:
I guess earth will always stay dominant whatever nerf/buff is applied.
Sadly yes, because of all the hindering spells, damage spells, Res/AD and TP.
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 08:30 AM |
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Edited by Lth3 at 08:33, 19 Jan 2019.
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phoenix4ever said:
Then we are back to all players always choosing Earth and Air Magic. (Which most people does anyway)
that is fine i guess. some players like Ben80 speculate that it is by game desing: 1) Earth/Air - primary schools, 2) Fire/Water - secondary schools
we don't wanna change the game entirely, this is not in HotA's objective
Elvin said:
No, literally half movement as in 50% of total. If it cost a fixed amount of movement points, specialists would be able to use the spell more times per day than normal heroes. Specialists are still better off because the other 50% is far more than normal heroes.
even for not Logisctic heroes it is not fair. you work to get that Stables, to find the artifacts, use other objects to boost MP - and boom, you get punished for it
Orrinisthebest said:
I've been playing mirrorred XL size template a lot recently where i enabled almost everything and by the time i enter mirror portals( 125-135) my army will be like 200 wyv monarchs, 100 Archangels, 50 titans etc. In this kind of FB's expert berserk or clone alone ( especially with cape of silence equipped) is enough to win the game. But again this is an exception, remove clone and berserk from game and everyone will curse whenever they are offered water/fire magic. I guess earth will always stay dominant whatever nerf/buff is applied.
in strong FB's it all comes down to single spells, yes. but you forget to mention Armageddon, Frenzy, Curse, Sacrifice, Blind for Fire Magic. and Bless, Cure, Dispel, Teleport, Weakness, and especially Prayer for Water Magic, which can be extremely useful in poorer battles
phoenix4ever said:
But what about Fire and Water Magic?, Water can be considered for certain towns or as a 3rd magic school, but Fire is never really worth picking, except for Berserk.
Players should'nt always feel forced to pick Earth and Air Magic and forget about Fire and Water, it's just boring and predictable gameplay.
i pick Fire. i guess i'm unpredictable 
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 19, 2019 08:49 AM |
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Lth3 said:
i pick Fire. i guess i'm unpredictable
Nice, I pick Fire and Water too, but only since Dimension Door is only once per day in my game, otherwise I would feel forced to get Air. But Fire is definitely the worst school, Berserk is very powerful, but besides that spells are very situational and no adventure spells. Water is pretty cool with Bless, Cure, Teleport, Clone and Prayer, but does it compare to a cheap +5 mass Haste, Fly or DD 4 times a day, not really...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 09:50 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:02, 19 Jan 2019.
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Logically speaking, haste/slow should affect movement less as lvl 1 spells. For me it would be great if it was possible to split them in single and mass version where mass costs more and has basic mastery bonus.
And if you still think half movement for town portal is unfair, you could make it remove all movement. There, fair for everyone  Things like a radius are unnecessarily complicated and besides, most of the time, it saves you days worth of travel. Or you could just limit its uses to 1-2 per day, it would remain op but still better than the current situation.
Unless it is possible to somehow add a town building that teaches you the spell(or sells town portal scrolls at a high price) so that everyone can get it.. H6 and H7 both had a town portal building that allowed you to return to the nearest town with town portal building which was a good idea all things considered. You could skip building it in other towns so as to plan where you teleport to.
Lth3 said:
but you forget to mention Armageddon, Frenzy, Curse, Sacrifice, Blind for Fire Magic.
Normally I'd agree but blind and armageddon require no mastery to be effective. That's the sad thing with fire, other than mass berserk/curse, you get to enjoy its benefits without investing in the skill. I believe that it would be more appealing if its destructive spells at least were stronger than their counterparts.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Erathianer
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 11:24 AM |
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Two Suggestions:
1) Increase the characters for naming heroes.
Right now the number is 12 characters but when you want to name someone for example Admiral ... or first name last name it gets really close and you can only use short names. i would recommend to increse it from 12 to 20 characters.
2) Vertical border gates.
Right now the border gates are only horizontal and there exist only the normal garrisons in which you can put armys in vertical position. if you have a passage from left to right for example and you want to put a border gate, it can get complicated. just one example.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 01:16 PM |
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I still don't see the point in babbeling about core skills, already banned in tournaments.
Imho there are two possible solutions to deal with this "overpowered" matter:
1) The goal would be to add much more spells: DD, TP and other "overpowered" spells are much more unlikely to get. True you may reroll them but it takes time and resources.
2) Tournament rules determine how the spell works. There is a different balance between tournament and standard rules for some spells.
- TP is well as it is for casual and AI matches.
* Tournament rule: Earth Magic is useless for TP in tournament rules, its always nearest town and once per day/hero.
- DD is well as it is for casual and AI matches.
* Tournament rule: Air Magic is useless for DD ind tournament rules, only once per day/hero.
- Fly is well as it is for casual and AI matches.
* Tournament rule: Flying over unpassable terrain means loss of more movement points.
Other spells:
- Slow1 -> split into standard and mass version, lvl2 and lvl4, same behaviour as it is now.
- Slow2 -> max reduction is 4 points of speed, 1 Standard, 2 with Basic Earth, 3 with Advanced Earth, 4 with Expert Earth.
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nordos
Known Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 02:24 PM |
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My few unqualified cent:
Dimension Door moves to Fire Magic
Think it like that - Fire is demonic, and these are dimensional invaders. It makes sense that they have the ability to warp the dimension and teleport, right? Also, Fire can be considered 'chaos' magic, which is also more likely to have magic related to shortening the distance with a single step.
Town Portal shoudl require movement, even for expert. That way, it can't be chained that much.
Water Walk now gives +Movement. That is to give the last school some way to increase the map range as well (otherwise it would be a far worse fly).
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 19, 2019 02:55 PM |
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Dimension Door sounds nothing like fire though, the fact that demons have teleporting powers is unrelated. They are aliens, sci fi related powers make some sense.
And why would water walk need a boost? It is great in the presence of water.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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nordos
Known Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 06:02 PM |
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Just rename Dimensional Portal tos omething like 'Dimensional Rift/Tear' and it suddenly sounds like Fire Magic So, that argument is not really fitting.
First of all, there are two world spells in Air: Fly and Portal. Fly is also a superior version of Water walk (in basically all aspects save mana cost which is inconsequentle in the later stages). So, something like
+0/50/100/150 movement (aka small boost) could make it more useful on non-water maps (where it currently is a dead spell), It would also make it superior for water crossing compared to fly.
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 19, 2019 10:32 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Nice, I pick Fire and Water too, but only since Dimension Door is only once per day in my game, otherwise I would feel forced to get Air. But Fire is definitely the worst school, Berserk is very powerful, but besides that spells are very situational and no adventure spells. Water is pretty cool with Bless, Cure, Teleport, Clone and Prayer, but does it compare to a cheap +5 mass Haste, Fly or DD 4 times a day, not really...
it is already 1 time per day, and 2 times per day with Expert Air Magic and map size XL+U, with 'Tournament Rules' enabled in options. we are talking about that
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 19, 2019 10:39 PM |
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Even with DD 2 times a day, I would feel forced to get Air Magic, the disadvantage of having only 1 DD instead of 2 is just too big.
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 11:03 AM |
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Edited by Lth3 at 23:37, 24 Jan 2019.
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you can live with it. important is you get to jump from one zone to another. you can't live without Advanced Earth though
1x DD is a maximum of 969 movement points jumped without Air Magic and 1069 with Air Magic currently
do you agree on always 1x DD per day with only increased/decreased movement point cost based on Air Magic ?
Lth3 said:
Dimension Door:
No Air Magic - once per day and cost 800 movement points
Basic Air Magic - 600 movement points
Advanced Air Magic - 400 movement points
Expert Air Magic - 200 movement points
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 20, 2019 11:35 AM |
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Seems fair enough.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 02:28 PM |
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it's good to know that casual players also agree that it's an imbalance, because pro and tournament players started discussing this not so long ago. just that very few can decide on a sensible solution to this dilemma. there are also those who wish to uphold this imbalance because maybe they feel they are able to use and abuse it. their reasoning: "it has always been this way, don't try to invent a bicycle when it is already invented" 
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 20, 2019 02:59 PM |
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Yeah I guess some people can't live without that incredibly overpowered Town Portal and DD 4 times a day, even though they are completely unbalanced.
Then some people are gonna say, "it's not unfair if everyone have them", right, but it's not like everyone will get them at the same time or even get them at all.
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