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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 26, 2019 01:34 PM |
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I don't think Hota wouldn't provide a modding kit because it's difficult, but because they want their mod to be exactly how they envision it and in no other way.
Hota is perfect for the player who just want to clic and play with some new content. Then they can criticize the parts they don't like and wish for something else they technically could do themselves using wog.  
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 26, 2019 01:40 PM |
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Well not sure about your first statement, a Hota with a friendly modkit (allowing all that WoG does and more) would expand the community from the actual one hundred at best to ten thousands, for a start.
If everyone with a bit of discipline could make his own town, creatures abilities, spells and artifacts, and all this within the overall quality HoTa proposes, that would look like the best thing in human history since Christopher Colomb
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 26, 2019 01:48 PM |
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I agree it would be fantastic, I only have my doubts they are willing to do such a thing.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 26, 2019 01:49 PM |
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Heroes 3 on Nexus, hear Hota team?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 26, 2019 02:11 PM |
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Galaad said:
I don't think Hota wouldn't provide a modding kit because it's difficult, but because they want their mod to be exactly how they envision it and in no other way.
I think you're right and while I have my doubts about this close code policy truth being said, an HotA allowing for all that Era does would be lucky if it could find one Woodmelon or Salamandre to do half a dozen maps in a few years, while there are at this moment about the same number of HotA and WoG maps, plus a dozen for Era in Maps4Heroes.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 26, 2019 09:44 PM |
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RerryR said:
Sometimes I wonder if we play different games? Tons of errors? 99% imbalanced options? copyright violations? sorry but that's again bullsh!t I see none of that in the game I play.
I mean it is clear that the amount of options and choices requires at least a minimum of effort from the player to read through it once and use their head. If you want the all in one solution without thinking take HotA but then please, accept your fate already.
well lets do some screenshots in that case... first of all... WoG had like tons of error when it comes to multiplayer and kinda every second game was broken and or shut down in the first place after a certain amount of time like month 2 in most case.
Well... what IS THIS?
Completely stolen from other games...
Items from Baldurs Gate (Tower Arrow, Ankheg Ide)
ITems form Diablo2 (Gambeson)
e.g....
Imbalanced Options still its optional but who put something like this in at all?
"Warfare" (OP as hell)
FA Tent -> Revival (OP)
Stash with additional 5000k Gold (OP as hell)
Mithril itself (OP)
I hope you get what I mean with bad decisions and implements or stolen assets its jsut a big patchwork not a solid expansion.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 26, 2019 10:17 PM |
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It was Docent Picolan who released first graphical patch made entirely from stolen assets, back in 2005 or so
So what you smear there is pre-Hota team work.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 26, 2019 10:23 PM |
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True but I guess he learned something from it Same goes for the first mods I did in the past, before I learned how to draw or to create/construct/model something, I learned to copy. I personally don't see much progress in case or ERA/WOG and VCMI. But some content isn't that bad at all.
For example "Nephretes" in case of Oasis and "Fred" for his objects... even when I suspect in case of Fred lots of it is stolen from other assets and just recolored. But anyway... these two are one of very few good examples.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 26, 2019 10:29 PM |
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Great, seems hota team has now a new professional designer. Looking forward to hear from you.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 26, 2019 10:35 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Great, seems hota team has now a new professional designer. Looking forward to hear from you.
I wish i had more time, yea... In my case modelling is limited to Revit, AutoCAD and ArchiCAD but I guess it isnt that different from blender. Still -> No time for it and I still have lots of games to mod for myself. Most of them good old DOS, even the disassemble is horror 
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Docent_Picolan
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 26, 2019 11:04 PM |
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Salamandre said:
It was Docent Picolan who released first graphical patch made entirely from stolen assets
This claim is complete nonsense posted with an intent to deceive people. All of my pre-HotA WoG-related activities were aimed to adapt already existing assets to the original style, either ones from the original game (recoloring and frame-by-frame processing of so-called 8 lvl creatures), "stolen" graphics from WoG, or works of other modders. There hasn't been a single example of me intentionally borrowing a graphics from another game and trying to pass it off as my own work. Any attempts to 'work' on obviously imported assets such as objects from Age of Wonders were commissioned by other community members. As with all HotA source material, all early assets still exist in my archives; all discussions regarding such patches can be read on DF2 forums, and I can prove everything I said above using the material I mentioned. Actually, anyone who was engaged in HoMM modding in mid-2000s knows this, and I'm particularly baffled to hear such claims from you.
Worth mentioning is the fact that the experience I amassed adapting imported graphic assets to the visual style of HoMM III proved to be very useful. It still comes in handy every now and then when doing post-processing for 3D models.
Quote:
Hota with a friendly modkit (allowing all that WoG does and more) would expand the community from the actual one hundred at best to ten thousands, for a start.
And that's just a hilarious notion. You know there are 200,000 registered accounts in the lobby with at least a thousand online at any time, right?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted October 26, 2019 11:44 PM |
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Why all this talk about WoG in a HotA thread anyway?
HotA is HotA and fortunately not WoG. Just look at those ugly screens above. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 27, 2019 12:08 AM |
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Docent_Picolan said:
There hasn't been a single example of me intentionally borrowing a graphics from another game and trying to pass it off as my own work.
Who said that? Not me.
I only recall to the guy smearing wog graphics that the first graphical patch released for WoG was signed by Russian modders, and you were on the list with several dozen objects. The patch contained only "borrowed" graphics from other games.
The bottom thing is that there were distinct modding paths until Hota was possible. At first it was just borrowing graphics from other games then combine them under patch form. Much later, people started to design themselves things, so we got Grove town, then Hota. But that was 10 years later.
Docent_Picolan said:
And that's just a hilarious notion. You know there are 200,000 registered accounts in the lobby with at least a thousand online at any time, right?
I was talking about this community, HC.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 27, 2019 12:15 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 00:16, 27 Oct 2019.
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I agree the wog/hota debate is off-topic here, but what baffles me is what part of the word OPTIONAL is not intelligible by people.
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timmysoboy
Hired Hero
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posted October 27, 2019 02:15 AM |
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Someone had mentioned buffing artillery/ballistics by combining the two, but mentioned the need for a new skill to make up for it. Mining, from HoMM4 could work. It's a low impact skill (good for secondary heroes, awful for primaries), and it would likely be very easy to implement.
Mining would be something like; Basic: 1 wood, 1 ore per turn; Advanced: 1 wood, 1 ore per turn plus the effects of magic spring; Expert: 2 wood, 2 ore per turn plus magic spring.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 28, 2019 07:31 AM |
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Maybe. I don't suppose there's one that could beest the amount of treasure you get from map locations?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 28, 2019 02:14 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 14:31, 28 Oct 2019.
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Much like Doomforge I would like to echo some of my complaints on the cove campaigns. I finished them on impossible but those are tied to map design and not on resources and town development.
First off, after a ridiculously easy first campaign, we jump to a ridiculously hard second campaign. There is no difficulty progression, it goes from rolling a pebble down a slope to climbing a steep cliff just like that.
Second, too much emphasis on rushing the AI before it steamrolls you. You can't build a decent town nor buy units with your gold income so rushing the opponent is obligatory. Worse yet, you absolutely have to know where its towns are and which town to attack first. I somehow managed that on c2m1 but only because I was lucky to capture the AI town while eluding 2 strong enemy heroes on the way and the local hero half a day's distance from the town, leaving it unguarded. Only way I could win was because he faced me behind castle walls. After finishing the campaign I replayed and rushed the left town week 2-3 and things were much much easier but even then maxed artillery and some logistics were required. If you get caught in the open, you die.
The second mission was more brutal. Opponents can come from two sides and your town cannot be defended against enemy ballistics and superior numbers. Again, you have to rush, know enemy positions, which AI to target first AND not get attacked on your first town or you lose. Basically you have to attack green week 3 and not get lost on the way. I delayed by a few days and captured his town week 4. Then he combined armies from his secondaries and completely crushed me. What I managed to win by staying in the sanctuary and attacking on a turn he could not combine all his army which was.. pretty cheap.
Mission 3, same thing. If you don't rush the infernos, they have free mines, a utopia and a dwelling for each of their tier. Can you say 10 devils per week? You must attack the garrison week 2 and go straight for the inferno towns and hopefully they won't have developed a huge advantage. Me, I was late by one week and I suffered. I had to take second inferno by trickery and keep the first town with devil dwelling until I had enough army to survive Ignatius. Between expert tactics, cape of +2 speed, utopia artifacts and mass frenzy, it is an uphill battle. Your pirates are useless in this fight if you don't have tactics and you won't because you need wisdom/earth. But you don't actually need to defeat red right? What, and miss resurrection, meteor, implosion and extra spellpower? Haha no. But assuming you do and liberate the cove hero to win by quest objective.. YOU ARE SCREWED. Because you are never warned that this lvl 10 weakling will become your main in next mission and you will likely not have developed him.
Mission 5 can be too short or too long. If you know enemy position, you just rush him week 2 and he dies. There should probably be a more gradual battle for control of the map or something.
Third campaign!
Mission 1. If you don't take pink's town week 3 and combine armies, the other AI comes knocking and you are screwed. And you also have to get expert navigation from that specific sea location which can make or break your game. Sometimes your secondary can defend the town against an invasion but that's a long shot.
Mission 2 is a pain in the ass. If you don't know the AI locations to rush them, you end up chasing enemy heroes(some with sea movement bonus and perpetually respawning on defeat  ) and trying to protect your towns while they harrass you from all sides. Sadly, it is not possible to ignore the AI and complete the quest because the guardians are way too strong. Even when you defeat the local AI you still must raise some weeks' worth of army for the guardians and the final enemy holed up in his town. End turn galore, oh joy.
Anyways that's most of the issues I remember. Basically..
- Most of those maps cannot be played blind. Some wizard eyes would be nice.
- Your heroes are often half built and usually not the way you want to build them.
- Often your towns are gimped so you cannot really depend on them. Coupled with the above, you don't have much of a choice on how to play the missions.
- The AI can get too many advantages, including army 3-4 times stronger than yours. Facing them without a decent level or spells is painful, only rushing them will do. And rushing also requires getting artillery/logs in first few-several levels. Have you made your offering to the RNG Gods today?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 29, 2019 07:41 PM |
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Elvin said:
Have you made your offering to the RNG Gods today?
Ah yes, this is something to be addressed.
I get it that you wanted a hard campaign, but what you created is mostly frustrating. I've seen lots of comments that the 2nd mission of Terror of the Deep is impossible on "impossible" difficulty on reddit and such. Well, seeing that both Elvin and me beat it on Impossible means that it is obviously NOT, however I can see why people were so frustrated with this.
Basically, with so many restrictions (no town development beyond village hall with enemies getting capitols week 1; blind banned, but gifted to enemy starter heroes; no dwellings above 5 permitted, AI can get level 6 creatures freely) you are pretty screwed. So you really need those skills. You really need artillery and logs. Fast.
This encourages way too much saveloading till you get a proper template.
The same is true for many other maps, but for this one in particular.
Didn't you guys feel - at some point - that there is maybe too many handicaps for the player? Can't develop towns, can't get decent spells, in "Terror of the Deep" mission 1, earth magic is banned... you can only cap/limit/ban so many things before it starts getting annoying.
So my honest suggestion (either for a rebalance of those campaigns, or just for the new faction's campaign - it's supposed to come, right?) - less meticulous banning. Instead, make sure to either ban Summon Elemental spell, or fix the exploit allowing the battle to continue when only summoned elementals are left on the battlefield (make the player lose in that situation immediately). This will make early missions less frustrating, and final missions less trivial.
And I do mean trivial. When you can summon 200 elementals per turn and you rock 30+ allstats, there is no challenge unless you throw the player against armies 20 or 30 times bigger.
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Darimus
Hired Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 10:09 AM |
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Edited by Darimus at 10:18, 02 Nov 2019.
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Grow 10 army slots
Can we grow more army slots in battle like battle in Heroes 7 ?
Heroes 1, 2 with 5 slots.
Heroes 3 with 7 slots.
Heroes 7 with 10 slots
This improvement can make the battles more exciting
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 02, 2019 11:22 AM |
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That would require a ton of new graphics, a major overhaul of game mechanics and balancing.
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