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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 20, 2020 10:04 PM |
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Apparently it's not obvious to the decision-makers because otherwise you wouldn't have a re-introduction of the spring "rules" which we are observing now. People cannot be kept in panic mode for a long time, especially if they don't see what they should be panicking from all the while clearly seeing the negative results from the panic. Even an army cannot be kept battle-ready indefinitely without actually sending it to battle - the morale will start dropping after certain point and organization will quickly collapse. Non-stop media bull**** bombardment with next to zero logical consistency and political/bureaucratic chaos just contribute to that. Latest batch of lunacy in Bulgaria for example is re-introducing masks in the open while the pubs, restaurants, discos, malls, etc. remain operational and masks are not mandated in some of them (it's obvious which ones) - I'm feeling like I'm losing neurons just by typing this. 
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 20, 2020 10:44 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 22:47, 20 Oct 2020.
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Yes, it's the constant condradictions that make people drop their guard or loose awareness. I think the biggest factor was our governments arrogance (and our "why should I do something when others ignore it" mentality). I mean, people in Poland were pretty strict when comparing to other Eurpean countries, and our statistics were ok-ish, but it all went to hell through the summer and what we worked out in spring was lost...
I mean, at the start of the pandemic, when unprecise information was all over the place some members of my family even left their clothes on the porch before entring house or disinfected/left packages for a few days for the virus to "air out" (seemingly the virus was sticking to matierals for some periods of time depending on the material). Now they just wear masks and wash their hands more often and that's it...
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted October 20, 2020 10:47 PM |
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Zenofex said:
People cannot be kept in panic mode for a long time, especially if they don't see what they should be panicking from all the while clearly seeing the negative results from the panic.
Yeah, that. In Peru, for example, panic about the outbreak started to fade when food started not to be on the table. Around here, something like that also started to happen, not to mention all the political tosh flooding everywhere. And population started to get aggravated by some artists, rich ones, who started to make campaigns for people to stay at home whilst they had no way to sustain themselves, because those same artists coud afford the situation. It was bound to happen. Too many realities to have a single answer on how to handle it. Too many different people with different priorities to have a balance or a feel of fairness. Too many political divisions claiming they know better. And no one experienced enough to know all these answers and solutions for certain. Sooner or later, people's priorities exchange, become chaotic and things go awry, no matter what. As far as I can see, and I can be utterly wrong by the way, the priorities need to keep changing with the spread, shaping themselves to keep population suffering as little as possible and **** politics.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted October 21, 2020 12:15 AM |
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RerryR said:
PandaTar said:
...
That was very well put PandaTar. One should read that to the people demonstrating in Berling and saying the virus is a hoax. 
Be assured, PierryR, they've already heard such stuff for months.
There supposedly was a study showing covid can spread through farts. We'll soon have ass-masks, I guess.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 21, 2020 01:32 AM |
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FirePaladin said:
There supposedly was a study showing covid can spread through farts. We'll soon have ass-masks, I guess.
I think the correct word is "underwear".
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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songfx
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2020 03:22 AM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
If I don't WANT to wear a MASK on my face at all times when leaving home and they are forcing it on me, what do you call that, JJ?
This is a difference between you and me. I will feel sorry if I forgot to wear a mask in public place, because I brought trouble to others. They don't know whether I was infected or not, they have to keep distance from me. Although I am not infected, when I cough , I will cover my mouth with sleeve to stop droplet transmission.
We have to get through this risk together, not only depending on hospital/government/others protecting. As I said before, protecting ourselves is also protecting others, this is what a human could contribute to the world.
Pls respcet science.Virus will not fear you enven you said No one knows more than you.
Quarantine, no human rights; no quarantine, no human left.
Quarantine, I see you; no quarantine, ICU.
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Chinese WOG Forum
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 21, 2020 07:52 AM |
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Quote:
Pls respcet science.
I guess you meant "respect"? That's rich. Science has been the most disrespected gear in the whole machine of "counter-measures". Which is not really surprising, given that it has constantly been raped by mainstream media and politicians to advertise some agenda.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2020 08:26 AM |
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Which agenda would that be?
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songfx
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 21, 2020 12:09 PM |
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Edited by songfx at 12:11, 21 Oct 2020.
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Zenofex said:
Quote:
Pls respcet science.
I guess you meant "respect"? That's rich. Science has been the most disrespected gear in the whole machine of "counter-measures". Which is not really surprising, given that it has constantly been raped by mainstream media and politicians to advertise some agenda.
science means people should wear mask in epidemic area to protect themselves and others. I don't understand why some people are so hostile to such normal thing. Will anti-intellectualism help them to kill the virus?
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Chinese WOG Forum
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 21, 2020 01:56 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 13:56, 21 Oct 2020.
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songfx said:
Quarantine, I see you; no quarantine, ICU.
This equation of positive equals ICU has been an incredible damage to public reception of the virus and has brought unnecessary pressure on the healthcare system.
Keep your prudence, keep taking care, but ffs don't clog up testing labs and hospitals for a cough or a sneeze. Yet people are scared that if they got the virus they're gonna die, so can you blame them for getting a test as soon as possible?
There is the possibility of dying? Certainly, like the... you guessed it, the flu. The data is here, it delineates very specific groups of people at high risk, if you're not in them, don't get all anxious about the mildest symptoms, a night in the cold will give the same effect as those.
You know you were in contact with someone? You have suspicious more specific symptoms (aka difficulty breathing or a fever), be my guest and take the test.
The whole point of not creating a panic and reassuring people that it's not as bad as it is is essentially to avoid paranoid people from overburdening an healthcare system that will inevitably get overburdened just by the actual sick people.
Collaboration is not just people wearing masks. Everyone is insisting on this single point, spoiler alert, it won't be enough. So don't pester doctors, pharmacists and laboratory technicians, let them do their jobs orderly. I say this especially in the moment we get a cure or a vaccine (even our government acknowledged that the experimentation on monoclonal antibodies could soon turn up an approved cure).
I find it funny someone could take me for a no-mask or no-vax or conspiracy theorist just because I disagree with the panic or criticize my government (or general handling of this crisis, or wearing a mask outside and alone).
Anyway, had my first in class attendance, it was kinda weird but funny being the only one attending, it looks like it's a safe environment, that's for sure.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted October 21, 2020 02:02 PM |
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we switched to some online classes again, which is absolute ass.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 21, 2020 02:09 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 14:09, 21 Oct 2020.
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Anyone I can tell this I eventually tell: IMO, live class attendance should be safe, if masks are supposed to properly work as they are advertised to. Aren't there also sanification protocols?
This falls into my complaints of contradictions and bad handling.
Btw, if I turn out to be positive, now I can give my professor the fault of it, she lowered her mask, while I've been a good boy and kept it on all the time. MWAHAHAHAHAH!
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 21, 2020 02:13 PM |
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Neraeus said:
The data is here, it delineates very specific groups of people at high risk
There is a data that is not really visible to the public (at least yet) : all the non-high risk people that caught it and didn't die from it. Perfectly healthy adults between 20-40 years old, still having sequels and respiratory panics any time they do a small physical effort. These people, in the data, are classified as "recovered", yet, they are not totally. The kind of post-symptoms one can get at any age and in good health basic condition are really bad. Another one is feeling stabbed in the chest for no apparent reason. There is others...
I agree we should not panic and keep cautious, often washing hands, wear mask when necessary , and keep distance. But that side of the equation, the people getting it at any age and health condition, not dying from it yet still suffering from awful side effects months later and we don't even know if it's ever going to go away, stays a bit under the radar.
Doctors contradict themselves everyday, nobody understands crap about this ****, governments are lost and apply drastic measures, it's up to us to see as clear as possible inside all this mess.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted October 21, 2020 03:34 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 15:41, 21 Oct 2020.
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Neraus said:
Anyone I can tell this I eventually tell: IMO, live class attendance should be safe, if masks are supposed to properly work as they are advertised to. Aren't there also sanification protocols?
When I hear "classes" I understand it mostly as pre-collage schools (especially primary schools). In our country one of the biggest "nests" of corona are currently schools. A lot of teachers and school staff are getting sick, probably they are getting this from children who might not even have visible symptoms. And you know how kids are when it comes to "behaving" or doing things like disinfecting hands (or keeping personal hygiene altogether) in general or keeping social distance...
But because we had e-classes in the March-July period, and it didn't go that well (various limitations, technical issues, multiple objections and complaints from the teachers board etc), our government is very restrained when it comes to closing them...
@Galaad
And yeah, I heard from my acquainted doctor that the real problem is a the large spectrum of post-corona effects: lungs "destroyed" in two weeks, not having smell or taste for 7 months straight etc... there were cases of perfectly healthy sportsman who's endurance and form was destroyed in a matter of weeks.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 21, 2020 05:47 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 18:00, 21 Oct 2020.
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JollyJoker said:
Which agenda would that be?
Take a pick, it's not like there is only one. Quite often it boils down to profit though.
Quote:
science means people should wear mask in epidemic area to protect themselves and others. I don't understand why some people are so hostile to such normal thing. Will anti-intellectualism help them to kill the virus?
Science means nothing like that because science still hasn't made its mind if mask help and to what degree. TV science on the other is certain about everything from day 1, so I guess that's the one you're talking about. I'd join a proper religion if I wanted to follow the advises of that kind of "science", thanks.
Quote:
Keep your prudence, keep taking care, but ffs don't clog up testing labs and hospitals for a cough or a sneeze.
It's not just that, even though this alone is ridiculous enough and can overload the healthcare by itself. The whole non-stop, hysterical corona-talk is painting hospitals dark red as some place where you should not go to even if you have a valid reason (other than the star virus) because you might get infected and die. My grandmother is having problems for the past months and on several occasions has had episodes which look suspiciously like strokes, she needs to get her head examined, scanners and all that, yet she refuses to go to the hospital because... take a guess! I know people who have willingly self-quarantined for weeks, no tests or anything, just because they had to walk through a hospital to escort somebody else. Many people just don't realize (yet) the amount of damage caused by the informational mishandling of this "pandemic" and chances are, it will cause much more in the coming months.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 21, 2020 05:52 PM |
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Of course masks help with slowing the rate of infection, lol. That's as much of an engineering question as it is a medical one.
My town started handing out fines to people that refused to wear a mask. Fixed that problem pretty quick.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2020 06:46 PM |
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The "science" that is relevant here is actually rather simple - spreading of a virus is a matter of statistics.
Each contact means rolling a die, with rolling "1" meaning you will be infected. How many sides the die has you roll depends on the kind of contact you have: inside/outside; mask/no mask; distance to each other; length of contact and so on, and there are even statisticial data that describe the probability changes for the different conditions.
Apart from the question how many sides the die has you roll, obviously the question how many dice you actually roll or how often you roll them is paramount.
Now think about this: our public health offices are responsible for tracking the contacts of infected and telling them they had contact and so on. One of those, of the city of Nürnberg, has published numbers that say, in spring they had to contact an average of 5-6 contacts per infected.
Now, in autumn, though, it's an average of 80-90 contacts. Add to that the fact that we have a very rainy autumn so far it's clear that most contacts are inside - and without a mask, obviously.
THAT is science, it's known science and it explains everything quite exhaustively.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 21, 2020 07:13 PM |
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@Zenofex
Oh yeah, forgot to say that as well, basically now hospitals are covid zones, there are cases of people that delayed life saving treatments out of fear of going to the hospitals.
That said, there have been cases of mishandled precautions and entire wings of hospitals getting infected, so it's unfortunately not an irrational fear.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted October 21, 2020 07:45 PM |
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... Because in a scenario where the rate of infection is multiplied, there would no longer be people with other conditions avoiding the hospitals.
Sure. Mmkay.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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FirePaladin
Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
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posted October 21, 2020 08:06 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
... Because in a scenario where the rate of infection is multiplied, there would no longer be people with other conditions avoiding the hospitals.
What? I am still trying to understand the logic of these words.
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Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
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