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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 21, 2023 05:45 PM |
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Well, there is a witch hunt going on in France, about who calls Hamas terrorists and who doesn't. The prize is in discussion, between prison time and media ban.
I think is rather dumb and worrisome for what we call a democracy. Two aspects for me, the first is that medias use the "terrorist" label to totally evacuate any Israel responsibility, timeline speaking. While I think explaining, digging some rationality in an act, is not same as justifying or supporting.
The second is that France has about 15 millions muslims, and they feel like brothers in souls and arms with the Palestinians, there is nothing to prevent it, that's it. Therefore hitting on Hamas and only on Hamas is creating a very dangerous situation here, we already had several terrorist attacks in 4 days, every 1 hour several bomb alerts, and this is only going to become worse. Mass immigration from Arabic countries deprived us from taking a side, we have to remain neutral - like it or not, is a matter of survival.
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Panda_Tar
Adventuring Hero
CH mascot and right-wing
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posted October 21, 2023 07:40 PM |
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Geny said:
And all of this adds to past narrative where terrorists are "gunmen", neutralising a terrorist on a killing spree is "murder", etc.
So I'm beginning to wonder if people gravitate towards media outlets opposed to their ideology, so they would have something to be outraged about.
That pretty much resumes what our criminal president spoke in a speech he's given two days ago. The main quote was "Israel's reaction to the attacks (not terrorist attack) was insane". I wonder what he would deem appropriate to a nation responding to terrorist attacks?
That Lula is a foul joke. He always states vague things like "We need to find a solution beneficial to both sides, for 'democracy'", as if it was the easiest thing to do. And the mainstream media flourishes it as if he was some sort of saint, always using the word 'democracy' as a brainwashing trigger.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 21, 2023 09:55 PM |
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If a transgender woman is required to have a wife that isn't fat, so be it
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 21, 2023 10:25 PM |
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Post comes about a bit surreal...
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Pol
Known Hero
.^.
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posted October 22, 2023 11:27 AM |
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No, I'm afraid that Europe has no chance to staying neutral. Especially having so many angry muslims as citizens. It's too late to avoid it, no action will tear it up completely.
As of bias I also find fascinating, that we have Arabian protests and accusations on the screen right after Hamas (terrorists) stated it.
Which is likely perfect framing from their side and have very loose relation to the truth. And certainly have something to do with them being in medias and uni, like there's a huge suspicion in case of BBC.
The fact that there's no possible discussion with Palestina/Hamas/Gaza (from 2007 up?) doesn't meant that we will agree with their view.
Overpopulating however could end that way. 
(At this point would be fair to state their view but believe it or not they have no vision of their future. The only thing which they want is to eradiate state of Israel.)
But for any discussion you need two, or at leat one to waiting for the other one to come and in that aspect Netanjahu was disaster.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 22, 2023 06:01 PM |
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2023 08:18 PM |
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Israel is finally glad they got yet another excuse to take more land. I'm sure they can't wait to retaliate this 1 500 Israeli deaths with 30 000 dead Palestinians. The Jewish tax because their self appointed endangered species mentality means that the live of one Jew is worth 20 gentiles.
A ratio of 1 to 20 deaths has been like that in every war Israel was in since 1948. Not to mention that Israel actually helped Hamas 40 years ago in their attempt at dealing with Arafat.
I think Islam is a snowty religion, Judaism as well, that doesn't mean I can't see the Israeli bullsnow going on.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 22, 2023 08:25 PM |
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Would you prefer a "proportional" response? You know, raping women, burning people alive, torturing parents in front of their children and vice versa, kidnapping babies? Would that be better than retaliating with a powerful military force?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 22, 2023 08:32 PM |
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Fun fact: of the roughly 9.73 mio Israeli citizens only roughly 7.15 mio are Jews. 2.05 mio are Arabs...
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2023 08:33 PM |
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I don't think there's a proper solution to this at this point. It's just gonna go on until all Palestinians are gone and the land is all Israeli. Israel just doesn't want to have a permanent stain on their history so instead they take land piece by piece while claiming to be self defense every time.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 22, 2023 09:35 PM |
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The thing is, a terrorist doesn't fear for his life, so there is no "prevent" nice and human solution. I am a simple guy from East, so my position was always pragmatic : after a terrorist accomplished his act, you (or your state) take act, slaughter his wife, his kids, his parents, his dog and his camel. This and only this could have a dissuasive effect, there is nothing else, to hell with morals and ethics, we are out from a standard frame. Next lunatic Mohammedan will have to think first.
So, I don't have any problem with Israel seeking vengeance and hitting strong. As I opposed to fred in the other "jews are bad" debate, my problem isn't what Israel or what jews are doing, but how we, in the west, sugarcoat everything they (and the oncle Sam) do and avoid on purpose to report it properly, we are in a complete submission we choose to. If Israel commit war crimes, say it, that's all. We define who is bad and who is good, based on our emotions, preferences, fears and inhibitions instead of facts.
Then there is reality. There are no terrorist attacks in China, Japan, Poland, Finland, Hungary etc etc, but always in same countries, so it may also have to do with those countries actions and politics, there is no smoke without fire. But well... who cares about causes.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 22, 2023 09:43 PM |
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Shortly after that dreaded Saturday tens of thousands of protesters flooded the streets of Western countries, reveling in the deaths of unarmed civilians. Some even used Nazi symbols. And for a few moments I wondered if this would be a wake up call for the West. If they would realise how far gone they are and do something about it. But that was wishful thinking, wasn't it?
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2023 09:51 PM |
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Geny said:
Would you prefer a "proportional" response? You know, raping women, burning people alive, torturing parents in front of their children and vice versa, kidnapping babies? Would that be better than retaliating with a powerful military force?
The thing is, people change their behaviors according to the information they have. What they know of their environments, but also of themselves. The information you have about yourself is, in comparison, certain.
If you attack a strong dude, since he knows he's strong, he'll just call you out in public for a 1 on 1 fight and beat your ass there because he knows he can. If you attack a weak dude, he's more likely to do nothing at all or to deliver a cheap shot when you're sleeping at 2 am or stab you in the back or something because he knows he can't beat you in a 1v1 fight.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 22, 2023 10:01 PM |
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Wrong! It isn't metaphor.. Russia and Hamas also Iran and China are problem.. Israel could give independency to Palestine and country to prevent NWO..
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 22, 2023 10:15 PM |
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@Kayna
Except we're not talking about a 1v1 fight where the weaker fighter "cheated" by kicking his opponent in the balls, i.e. hitting military targets in an unconventional way. We're talking about the weaker fighter using break between rounds to go to his opponent's house and shooting his infant child in the head. No amount of underdog sindrome makes this even remotely understandable.
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2023 11:36 PM |
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Salamandre said:
The second is that France has about 15 millions muslims, and they feel like brothers in souls and arms with the Palestinians, there is nothing to prevent it, that's it. Therefore hitting on Hamas and only on Hamas is creating a very dangerous situation here, we already had several terrorist attacks in 4 days, every 1 hour several bomb alerts, and this is only going to become worse. Mass immigration from Arabic countries deprived us from taking a side, we have to remain neutral - like it or not, is a matter of survival.
Canada is so diverse, it's beautiful. We are perfectly diverse, we have people of every nationality and ethnicity. Every time a conflict occurs in the world, we have our own mini version happening here. Add to that American truckers and black live matters people protesting on our soil even if Floyd was killed in the US and the border limitations during covid was placed by the US government and we end up with such a beautiful result!
Diversity is strength. It's not divide and conquer at all.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 23, 2023 10:58 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 11:08, 23 Oct 2023.
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Salamandre said:
The thing is, a terrorist doesn't fear for his life, so there is no "prevent" nice and human solution. I am a simple guy from East, so my position was always pragmatic : after a terrorist accomplished his act, you (or your state) take act, slaughter his wife, his kids, his parents, his dog and his camel. This and only this could have a dissuasive effect, there is nothing else, to hell with morals and ethics, we are out from a standard frame. Next lunatic Mohammedan will have to think first.
What you are talking about is called collective responsibility and is contrary to civilized ideas about human rights, about good and evil. The right way is to isolate criminals and individually punish them. Once upon a time, Christianity raised human rights to this height, and now leaders like Israel want to return us to the wild and terrible times of the Old Testament (revenge should be many times worse than crime plus collective responsibility).
Geny said:
Would you prefer a "proportional" response? You know, raping women, burning people alive, torturing parents in front of their children and vice versa, kidnapping babies? Would that be better than retaliating with a powerful military force?
The fact of the matter is that Israel is not showing a military response, but a terrorist one. The military response is to eliminate the terrorists, and Israel kills civilians with its bombing while Hamas fighters hide underground.
Israel has followed the path of Hitler, committing genocide and war crimes. I hope, just like Hitler, he will end his existence.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 23, 2023 01:09 PM |
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You mean Israel that warned people to move away from the war zone? You mean Israel that allowed humanitarian aid to come in, even though over 200 hostages have not even seen the Red Cross? You mean Israel that managed to bomb Hamas warehouse built next door to a mosque without damaging that mosque? Like Hitler indeed.
And while we're on the subject of collective punishment, may I remind you that Hamas are not only a terrorist organisation, but also the elected government of the Gaza Strip?
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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted October 23, 2023 01:41 PM |
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Elected government which Israel created, supported thus helped to get elected. ^^
Geny, seriously... and what about cutting water and electricity supplies in Gaza, where 40% of people are children? Telling them to leave their homes? Who gave you this right?
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted October 23, 2023 01:52 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 13:58, 23 Oct 2023.
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You mean water and electricity that we provide for them? During war? I don't think there's any international law that demands a country supply their enemy with essentials.
Edit: nearly forgot one important detail. When water and electricity were cut off the Israeli government demanded one thing and one thing only to bring them back: the immediate release of all hostages. So, basic rights for basic rights.
As for people leaving their homes, that's on Hamas. If they would build their military infrastructure in bases rather than amidst civilians, there would be no need for people to leave. As it is, asking them to leave before the assault moves to the next phase is the lesser evil.
It's been a while, so I might be misremembering things, but I'm pretty sure that Israel preferred Fatah to rule Gaza, just like they do in the West Bank. Not Hamas.
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This thread is pages long: 
