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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 14, 2023 03:28 PM |
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Ok nice drink Beluga or other vodkas pay €3 in Roosia.. You should go to job of propaganda in your state.. I remember you already 20 years..
EDIT I don't think that this thread is useful.. Depend on Roosian matter every I will give a comment..
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 03:49 PM |
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Ben80 said:
It is hypocritical for the West to talk about “international law,” since the West has never respected it anyway.
And here comes the first and favorite strawman of Russian propaganda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Whatever the "West" did or didn't do does NOT give Russia any rights to do the same.
When we say "Russians, stop the war crimes", you DON'T respond by "but Yugoslavia" "but Nazis" "but Palestine". This is a lame attempt at tu-quoque that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, instead, it does everything to derail the subject without even touching the essence.
You know, you threw a serious and ridiculous accusation before, that I don't understand whatever nonsense your propaganda is blurting out and that there are "sides and angles" to this. Well, here's the sad truth. There are no "sides and angles". There is an imperialistic country that invaded its neighbour and chose violence. It cannot get any more simple.
Now, we could discuss all day long that there were valid concerns on the Russian side, but let me repeat myself, as I did with Sal in the other topic: you chose war. Nobody forced your hand. This is your doing, your responsiblity. Whatever war crimes your soldats are commiting right now (and we know there's like a ton of them) - Russia is guilty of every single one of them.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 03:53 PM |
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@Doomforge,
Well, I already said that you all are incorrigible. It’s nonsense for me when an adult says all this seriously.
I’m not writing to offend, I just don’t see the point in continuing the conversation.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 03:59 PM |
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Ben80 said:
@Doomforge,
Well, I already said that you all are incorrigible. It’s nonsense for me when an adult says all this seriously.
I’m not writing to offend, I just don’t see the point in continuing the conversation.
A Russian propaganda bot cannot offend me, so don't worry - I just laugh at it.
You don't see a point, because you have no point. No real arguments. You just repeat Russian nonsense from Olgino trollhouse and you expect people to actually take it seriously.
Do you seriously believe that "BUT WEST" whatboutism will actually work in a serious conversation? Come on, comrade. Try harder. We're not your fellow buddies from Ru.net and this is HC, not pikabu.ru, we actually can fact-check, since we don't have censorship you do, lol.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 04:01 PM |
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Doomforge said:
A Russian propaganda bot cannot offend me, so don't worry - I just laugh at it.
You don't see a point, because you have no point. No real arguments. You just repeat Russian nonsense from Olgino trollhouse and you expect people to actually take it seriously.
Do you seriously believe that "BUT WEST" whatboutism will actually work in a serious conversation? Come on, comrade. Try harder. We're not your fellow buddies from Ru.net. We actually can fact-check, since we don't have censorship you do, lol.
Happy for you. Stay with your senseless hatred.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 04:18 PM |
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Hatred? I don't hate any of you. Why would I? You're mostly brainwashed victims of Putinistic propaganda. Some of you even believe you're some sort of free thinkers, ascending beyond "hipocrisy" of the west, even though it is just laughable naivety.
You can always attempt a discussion, but I will not take whataboutism seriously, you have to try a little bit harder.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 04:26 PM |
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The conversation with you is over, time is up.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 05:19 PM |
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"Conversation", lol. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 14, 2023 06:16 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Hatred?
Given that you are always the first one to start personal attacks then escalate with, yes, there is a lot of hate there.
The funny thing is when you whine about others showing "true colors" and them using "whataboutism", all this while attacking Ben in a thread about Israel because what Russia does.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 06:33 PM |
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Ben80 said:
Over the course of history, the border between Europe and Russian civilization constantly fluctuates - from the Oder River in the west to the Dnieper River in the east. Now this border is at its extreme eastern point - which means it should move to the west.
So colonisation/imperialism were good things after all? Is that what you want to say?
Who is the one to pick the correct point in history to compare to?
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 14, 2023 06:41 PM |
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Can someone please break it down very simple?
Why did hammas start up the other day? Tf is their issue?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 06:45 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 18:46, 14 Oct 2023.
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gatecrasher said:
So colonisation/imperialism were good things after all? Is that what you want to say?
The terms themselves have a negative connotation. The way it happened in reality is, as usual, a complex process that brought both enormous harm and benefits to less developed societies. An empire (if we take this word neutrally), if it unites different nations on good terms, has a lot of advantages - it regulates ethnic conflicts, promotes technical and humanitarian progress, etc.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 06:55 PM |
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Ben80 said:
The version is that in Europe there has always been little land - therefore they physically eliminated the competitor, but in Russia there are few people, but there is a lot of land for development - every person is valuable, killing is too wasteful.
Makes me wonder why Russia started this war with nothing to gain... (death toll >100.000) and why they still haven't pulled the ripcord.
At best it's true if "person" means "true ethinic Russians"/Slavs.
What about Tartars, Chechens, Chuvashs, Bashkirs, Avars, Dargins, Ossetians and whatnot?
How come a big chunk of the Russian death toll in the war is comprised of people from non-Slavic minorities?
Why the swollen-faced lunatic and his lackeys chose to send young, non-Slavic, unemployed men from remote corners of the federation to the forefront?
What about prisoners?
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 07:06 PM |
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Celfious said:
Can someone please break it down very simple?
Why did hammas start up the other day? Tf is their issue?
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict comes down to the fact there's nobody (no majority) who wants to be the cleverer who gives in. Nobody who puts history aside, who lets go of old habits, nobody prepared to do a clean cut, nobody prepared to grant equal rights to the other party, to release the hate, to share, to coexist in peace.
Too much masculinity.
How much more war do they need before they're ready for peace?
Going back in time I think the responsibility for a Jewish State should have been passed to Germany after WW2. They should have surrendered the Saar territory or Hesse or whatever. Now this wouldn't have satisfied many Zionists because it isn't the Israel from 2000 years ago but it was Germany which should have been made to take up the baton.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 07:08 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 19:09, 14 Oct 2023.
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@gatecrasher,
The situation is rather the opposite - at the everyday level, the Slavs inside Russia are less protected than non-Slavic peoples, since non-Slavic have retained their commitment to family ties, etc. In general, Russia is the only empire in history where the indigenous people gave more, and the new nations who entered the empire received more. In general, now, from the point of view of the law in Russia, all nations are equal. By the way, if you talk about “swollen-faced lunatic” again, I will have to stop communicating with you (in this case, you are expressing disrespect for your interlocutor too. I hope you have enough understanding why this is so).
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 07:21 PM |
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I will not refrain from calling the swollen-faced lunatic what he is. I'd suggest you learn to cope with the fact there are people who do not regard your war criminal hero highly.
By the way, nice story you've got there about them indigenuous. But not answering my question. Obviously what your officials tell you isn't in accord with what they do.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 14, 2023 08:52 PM |
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The death toll (>100 000) you are repeating is simply false and mathematically impossible, there would be none left if that was true. The ethnic minorities are on first front and accusing higher casualties because in people from poorer rural regions were first and most to enlist.
Mediazona keeps proper track of ethnic, rank and age statistics and casualties since february 2022.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 09:38 PM |
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But to quote from the first page you linked
"The actual number is likely much higher."
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 14, 2023 09:49 PM |
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Yes, sure, and you can read below, the estimated final number is 47 000k, which is highly probable. Also keep in mind this is anti-Putin media.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 14, 2023 10:22 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Given that you are always the first one to start personal attacks then escalate with, yes, there is a lot of hate there.
Nope, I just don't have the patience of a saint to listen to BS, victim blaming and war crime supporting.
There is nothing even remotely related to hate here. More like anger at people like you or the russian dude.
Salamandre said:
The funny thing is when you whine about others showing "true colors" and them using "whataboutism", all this while attacking Ben in a thread about Israel because what Russia does.
The connection between whataboutism and attacking the propaganda bot is...?
Was I the one who started pro-russian talk here? nope
if you wanted to discuss thread derailment, perhaps you should start with the source? Too biased to do that, eh?
gatecrasher said:
They should have surrendered the Saar territory or Hesse or whatever.
What about the German civilians, though? Would you kick them out of, let's say, Saar territory?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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This thread is pages long: 
