|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
posted October 18, 2023 12:22 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
plus an audio their Secret Service recorded with two Hamas discussing what just happened.
We have seen dozens of such fake audio recordings from Ukrainians. However, I will not undertake to say which version is true in the case of the hospital in Gaza. If the attack on Israel on October 7 was a provocation, then of course it could also be a provocation (in theory).
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted October 18, 2023 04:50 PM |
|
|
There is an audio recording, satellite visual, video of a rocket splitting off from a salvo and falling down and according to Biden the pentagon also has some independent intelligence that suggests this wasn't done by Israel.
As for the Hamas abilities, they very much have high grade weapons. We know it based on the damage their rockets make when they hit Israeli houses. And by the range of their rockets. And they are known to use hospitals and schools as ammo storage. So it might be that the destruction isn't as large as assumed, but it also might be that this is a completely self inflicted injury.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 18, 2023 05:44 PM |
|
|
Geny said:
There is an audio recording, satellite visual, video of a rocket splitting off from a salvo and falling down and according to Biden the pentagon also has some independent intelligence that suggests this wasn't done by Israel.
And in your opinion, this blow was not dealt by Israel - because there is this “proof” or because the Israelis are so highly moral that they could not do this ?
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted October 18, 2023 05:48 PM |
|
|
The former. Israel tries as much is it can to minimize collateral damage, but sometimes hospitals in Gaza are used to house ammo, weapons and / or combatants. And sometimes mistakes or faults happen. So while it is improbable Israel would bomb a hospital with no warning, it is not impossible.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 18, 2023 06:01 PM |
|
|
@Geny,
We have many Jews in Russia who are great patriots of Russia. For example, Satanovsky, whom I used to often listen to on the radio. They also say that this is not Israel, and I want to believe them (I even somehow feel sorry for them - I mean Satanovsky, etc).
However, by the way, at first for some reason Israel posted the video from 2022 as “proof”, then it was deleted, as far as I know.
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted October 18, 2023 06:08 PM |
|
|
I don't what if it was official Israeli information to just someone posting something that happened in the past.
But on the other hand, it is somewhat surprising (or should be) that so many believe Hamas so readily, even though they have a long history of fabricating videos and information for shock value to cause international uproar.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 09:38 AM |
|
Edited by Ben80 at 09:40, 19 Oct 2023.
|
The current political elite of Israel are madmen, just like the leaders of the Third Reich.
And those who came to power in Ukraine in 2014 as a result of a coup are just as crazy. Therefore, we had to fight them, despite the fact that Ukraine was a sovereign country.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 10:31 AM |
|
|
The thing is, Biden has lost any credibility since he lied in front of cameras that he saw photos of decapitated Israeli babies. Info that he had only from a conversation with Netanyahu.
Imagine Trump saying that about Palestinians bodies, and then it comes up as a lie, the mainstream would slaughter him, while for Biden is crickets.
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 11:25 AM |
|
|
Why do you say it is a lie? Because there isn't such footage or because Biden didn't see it?
And we see mainstream media hypocrisy differently. I'm thinking about the hospital: half the world was outraged when they thought it was Israeli, but it's barely a footnote if it's Islamic Jihad.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Ben80
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 11:29 AM |
|
|
The journalist who initially talked about this fake with 40 babies later admitted that it was not true.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 11:42 AM |
|
|
Geny, HERE
About hospital, we have only American reports. And that's how things become suspect, you get caught lying, then nobody believes you anymore. Anyway, there are videos on Kaotic showing Israeli settlers assassinating at point-blank unarmed civilians. So for me both are same, let them do their business.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 12:46 PM |
|
|
I don't think you can call that a neutral source.
In my opinion there is absolutely no reason to believe anything coming from Hamas. I mean, they kill children, face to face, take them as hostages for who knows what purpose, all with the aim to destroy Israel. Would they lie for that purpose, produce fake? OF COURSE they would!
Would Israel lie? OF COURSE they would! But THEY would lie only when they could control the sources, since being caught with a lie is worse than admitting to a blunder from the get-go. So for Israel to lie it makes sense only when no fact check is possible.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 12:52 PM |
|
|
Who is neutral then, CNN?
They say same thing but fill with smoke around to avoid calling it a lie. Neutral is calling it a lie.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 03:46 PM |
|
|
I would say that the CNN article is informative, covering a lot of ground.
Yes, I would call it rather neutral in tone.
I'm not sure the neutral story is "The President LIED", when a terror organisation gunned down children and beheaded grown-ups, when the president says they beheaded children.
I mean, if someone mutilates and then kills a woman and rapes her dead body, and someone claims that he raped, mutilated and killed her, is the story then that someone LIED? Or would you say, that's not fully correct - while he mutilated and murdered her, when he raped her she was already dead?
In other word, you cannot open with "X LIED when he said this and that", only when the main thing is a lie, not when some detail is wrong or missing, that's dishonest journalism.
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 04:13 PM |
|
|
Yes  .. One yet, why defened necrophile?
But Iraq, Iran, etc arrange demonstrations  Which word means? I trust in Finnish news, so Hamas did it.. Doesn't help! Easterners see the West!
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 04:38 PM |
|
|
Geny said:
And we see mainstream media hypocrisy differently. I'm thinking about the hospital: half the world was outraged when they thought it was Israeli, but it's barely a footnote if it's Islamic Jihad.
Are you seriously suggesting that the World, Western medias in specific, have more sympathy for Hamas than they do for Israel?! It is barely a foot note because it is expected from them, they are a terrorist organization (although, obviously supported by some state power or at least enabled), where as Israel is an official state and one that claims and wishes to be part of developed, civilized countries (unlike, say, the Taliban regime).
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 05:02 PM |
|
|
I understand that. But on the other hand, when the stories lean so heavily on one side it creates a narrative where Palestinians are nothing but poor victims and Israel is nothing but a ruthless aggressor. And people buy into that narrative without taking into account the context. The fact that so many immediately condemned Israel based on a single Palestinian announcement is proof of that.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 06:11 PM |
|
|
We are literally flooded with Israel support from mainstream, people trying to nuance or support the other side are banned from medias. Pro-Palestine manifestations were prohibited in EU.
So, no, its the other way. Now, that's medias, and where you may be right, is that the public opinion doesn't buy it - as presented, too much is too much. The conflict didn't start yesterday and people are not that dumb.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Panda_Tar
Adventuring Hero
CH mascot and right-wing
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 06:22 PM |
|
|
In Brazil, the Government is facing some backlash vs Israel, because the president's party do not classify Hamas as a terrorist organization, saying they're following the UN's own classification (I dunno what the UN call Hamas, to be honest). That said, the Brazilian proposition for a 'cease-fire' of sorts has been vetoed by the USA (12 in favor, 2 abstentions and 1 veto) at the UN meeting, mainly because there was nothing describing Israel's rights for defending itself, which I found reasonable, although I don't see anything fitting for resolving matters on that part of the world anymore. With so many things indicating interests on waging war from both sides, citizens are the ones caught in the crossfire.
Mainstream media here tends to support Palestinians and, occasionally, the Hamas, but mostly because our mainstream media is in the government pockets. Aside from that, population sees Hamas as a terrorist group, so they mainly support Israel. My country is also almost fully composed of Christians (87%), Catholics for the most part, so people here sense these religion-oriented groups who kill in the name of God as something foul and evil, which also strengthens the support to Israel.
____________
Biology doesn't care about morality.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2023 08:03 PM |
|
|
I fail to see a reason to support the Palestinians.
They decided to do away with Fatah and elect Hamas instead, who in turn refused to acknowledge what had been established between Fatah government and Israel, among that Israel's right to exist and the waiving of violence. They established a war government that did away with their political Fatah opponents. From Gaza hundreds of rockets have been fired on Israel since that.
What is that supposed to gain except extending the fight against Israel - with support of at least some of the Arab states?
And now this - so what story is there to tell in favor of the Palestinians? That they have voted a government that will support every crime when it serves the purpose to damage Israel or kill Jews? How long did it take Arafat to make the progress they did - just to throw it away in favor of terror?
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
