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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 12, 2023 01:48 AM |
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*Sigh*
1. If you don't accept the forum rules you can also not post.
2. No one is getting banned for "just saying the word ****".
3. If someone posts propaganda the best is to just debunk it, constructive dialogue has always shown better than censorship.
4. No one forces you to post or read the off-topic channels if you want to stick to the video game related discussions.
Anyway, not sure why you guys want to spread this topic in yet another thread.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 01:51 AM |
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Ben80 said:
And in any case, this does not relieve responsibility from Israel, which right now is making decisions similar to the policies of Hitler and the 3rd Reich - to deprive civilians of water, food, electricity, and subject them to bombing.
I'm not surprised by your cannibalistic logic. We have known the West for a long time.
Hitler and the 3rd Reich are not an accidental enemy who had to be expelled from Europe. This is not a demon that suddenly moved into Europe. Hitler and the 3rd Reich are a natural manifestation of the essence of the West.
It's is outrageous this Ben80 person which I also got penalised for calling out in the thread about the Russian "special military operation" can go on with sermon like this (which is borderline justiciable in many countries).
So "the West" is the root of all evil? It's all natural? Russians are the God-sent Herrenvolk master race?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 12, 2023 01:55 AM |
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gatecrasher said:
So "the West" is the root of all evil?
It's not "the root of all evil" but it's not better than the others from what I see.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 05:20 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 06:34, 12 Oct 2023.
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Galaad said:
It's not "the root of all evil" but it's not better than the others from what I see.
Yes exactly. It is based on human nature, although I still view civilizations as analogues of living entities, with their own characters. Every entity has a light and a shadow side, and so does the West. Here I mainly talked about the shadow side of the West, since it is relevant now (or rather, because now in the West the media, unleashed by their masters, endlessly talk about the shadow side of Russian civilization (while mostly telling lies), although in fact the Western media have been poisoning Westerners with evil lies about Russia for decades and even centuries). But I understand that continuing to talk about this is still an abuse of hospitality on my part.
I am against globalists, not against ordinary Westerners. There are many naive people among ordinary people who really believe in democracy and even try to implement it (for example, they give everyone the opportunity to speak out, etc). But the globalists have made the West the base of their activities, that’s the problem. Although who knows, maybe tomorrow they will change their location.
If one don’t say this, then it really turns out to be some kind of incitement of hatred.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 08:59 AM |
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Galaad said:
gatecrasher said:
So "the West" is the root of all evil?
It's not "the root of all evil" but it's not better than the others from what I see.
Then look again. Think of human rights, female rights, refugee rights, think about freedom of opinion, freedom of religion, of independence of jurisdiction, legislation and executive power (which, when they are threatened like in Israel and Poland, recently, will be an issue). I'm sure, if you look again, you'll find more. Sure, there's a long history of crappy things (or evil, if you prefer), but at least the West TRIES to make things somewhat better. And all these refugees seem to think the West is better as well. Or are they trying to get into China? Or Russia?
Ask yourself where you'd want to live. In Russia? In China? In India? Anywhere in the muslimic world? Or in France? Netherlands? Scandinavia? And then tell me again, the West isn't better. Or ask the Russian "Oligarchs" (who shouldn't even exist, considering the Russia has been a socialist Soviet Republic and their people being the owner of everything, the Communist Party just being the administrators, so consequently every citizen of the ex Soviet Republics should be a shareholder of a fonds everyone profits from).
Globalism? Russian corps have not been global actors, buying stuff everywhere in the world? Gazprom? Ever heard of that? And <50% of the shares are owned by the Russian state as well. Which means, RUSSIA is a global corporation.
Bottom line is, think again. There is no need to be defensive. We cannot change our past and we are not responsible for what our forefathers and -mothers did, we can only look at US and what WE do, and "The West" isn't doing that bad. Well, the US of A could do better, I suppose, but things get more difficult with more power, and there is a lot of power in the US.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 12, 2023 09:15 AM |
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A majority of "refugees" comes in EU because there is free money, because we are enough dumb and weak to share without asking for responsibility in return, not because they respect it or appreciate the progress of human rights or women rights, lol. Most of them despise both women and democracy.
Assange is a true refugee, and look how the west handled his journey.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 09:33 AM |
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The problem for Assange have always been the US of A, not "the West". Obama said, they couldn't put him on trial, because they would have to do with all journalists as well - but then Trump got president, and things took a bad turn again. That Trump guy you so like.
And at least he's still living. You think the same guy in Russia would still be alive?
And if you don't like how the West deals with refugees, you can always move to a country that isn't weak on them. Lol. Still, you live in France, how come?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 12, 2023 09:41 AM |
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Beaujolais wine. Irreplaceable.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 10:03 AM |
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Ah, right. I forgot it's forbidden in every other country.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 12, 2023 11:21 AM |
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Edited by artu at 11:22, 12 Oct 2023.
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Salamandre said:
A majority of "refugees" comes in EU because there is free money, because we are enough dumb and weak to share without asking for responsibility in return, not because they respect it or appreciate the progress of human rights or women rights, lol. Most of them despise both women and democracy.
Assange is a true refugee, and look how the west handled his journey.
Do you really think it’s actually about being dumb? The European population is getting older and older, life expectancy is good long after you retire and live on pensions, some people dont have kids, most only have a few at most. The ones who are young dont want the low profile jobs that immigrants crave for, the locals dont want to clean toilets or pick garbage. Yes, they need the money but you need a working class as well.
The first thing done was to move industrial production to countries like China with cheap labor. But then you basically surrender your industrial production and know-how to those courtries.
Why not make it legal then and also prevent illegal ones from coming. If Europe openly claims they will shoot tresspassers on sight, if you even sink one or two ships without pretending it is an accident, the tresspassers will immediately decline in great numbers. But illegal workforce is cheaper, they dont have union rights, they can be deported anytime, they can work longer hours, they can be intimitated to be deported etc etc. It is a softened version of pre-modern era slave labor where only high-class citizens with property ownership can vote and have civil rights (and the responsibility that comes with it.) So both sides have something to gain from each other.
Or do you really think the situation is like this for decades over humanitarian causes?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 12, 2023 11:50 AM |
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It's ideological, since the demographic argument is void, immigrants unemployment is 4 times higher and at the end of the year, the economy lost 50 billions or so. It's virtue signaling at continental size.
Look, if large scale immigration was good, we would have opened the borders long time ago, there are millions candidates and its safer we bring them here instead of risking life on boats. The fact that we struggle trying to come with laws mixing empathy and firmness, show there is a hoax. Optimal immigration should be "we need this, this and that", all others no thanks.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 12, 2023 12:39 PM |
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You should look further than our borders, JJ. Where are Human Rights when we carpet bomb Gaza? Do you agree with Madeleine Albright when she said killing half a million Iraqi children was "worth it"?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 01:55 PM |
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The allies carpet-bombing Germany (most famously Dresden)? Because of that, were the allies no better than Germany then?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 12, 2023 02:02 PM |
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There is a proportionality to think about. Nazis killed tens of millions and were preparing new weapons, Irak didn't attack US, neither had what Collin Powel said he had.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 02:35 PM |
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What proportionality do you mean, when you say, "Nazis killed tens of millions" [so carpet-bombing a town with tens of thousands civilian victims was justified, since German civilians were Nazis as well]?
Do you mean, with tens of millions innocent victims killed by one side, tens of thousands innocent victims killed by the other just don't matter? Or do you mean, Germans were all Nazis, so whether it was civilian victims or others doesn't matter?
Or do you mean the SUPPOSED strategic gain justified the victims?
Is morality a matter of numbers?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 03:38 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 15:39, 12 Oct 2023.
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JollyJoker said:
Or do you mean the SUPPOSED strategic gain justified the victims?
Strategic benefits in the fight against terrorists/fascists could justify bombing (if you can't do without it). However, in the case of Dresden (as in the case of Hiroshima and Nagasaki), these benefits are not available. The real reasons are the following: 1) revenge for the bombing of Britain 2) an attempt to intimidate the USSR in the upcoming confrontation 3) it was already known that after the war Dresden would fall into the zone of control of the USSR - all costs of restoring Dresden would fall on the USSR and East Germany. Now, by the way, the West is also encouraging the destruction of settlements in eastern Ukraine, radioactive contamination of the area, etc - they know that all the problems of restoration will fall on Russia.
There are already many facts about Wikipedia itself that Western intelligence services initially had a hand in it. At the moment, Wikipedia is not a source of objective information, but a tool of the West in information and psychological warfare.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 03:56 PM |
- penalty applied by Galaad on 12 Oct 2023. |
Edited by Ben80 at 05:28, 13 Oct 2023.
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About the blockade and bombing of Gaza - this could be at least somehow understandable if Israel had set specific conditions - the Palestinian militants return all hostages/prisoners, and Israel stops the genocide. But Israel did not offer such conditions, as far as I know.
They say this cartoon is over 40 years old:
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 12, 2023 04:15 PM |
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I need Lex Luthor's library..
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 04:58 PM |
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Your second post is as shameful a thing to post after over 1000 Israelis were just killed, as your first is fred-level deluded.
The Nazis would be proud of you. That's what the Nazis were first and foremost, mind you. Antisemitic.
But what do I react to a Russian propaganda bot whose only purpose is to spread desinformation.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2023 05:57 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 18:02, 12 Oct 2023.
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JollyJoker said:
Your second post is as shameful a thing to post after over 1000 Israelis were just killed, as your first is fred-level deluded.
The Nazis would be proud of you. That's what the Nazis were first and foremost, mind you. Antisemitic.
But what do I react to a Russian propaganda bot whose only purpose is to spread desinformation.
I don't attach much meaning to the term "anti-Semitic". After Hitler's genocide, Jews made a lot of effort to make the whole world appreciate their misfortunes (now the whole world owes Zionists and must blow away the specks of dust from them). While the Slavs, for example, suffered no less. Everyone knows about the Holocaust, but who knows about Babi Yar? And from the short history of the state of Israel we see that Hitler, compared to the Zionists, was an inept student.
You should be ashamed that you know about the Holocaust, but don’t know about Babi Yar.
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This thread is pages long: 
