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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Attack Iraq?
Thread: Attack Iraq? This Popular Thread is 107 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 ... 87 88 89 90 91 ... 100 107 · «PREV / NEXT»
Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted October 31, 2004 01:57 AM

Modern Democrats, as in the last 30 years.  FDR was a good Democrat, they don't make 'em like that anymore.
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted October 31, 2004 03:49 AM
Edited By: Svarog on 30 Oct 2004

Oh my God! I agree with Bin Laden :P

Quote:
In essence, he says that the fate of the U.S. lies not in the hands of Bush or Kerry, but in those of the American people in how much they are willing to influence American foreign policy.

The threatening note aside, I think it would be better for everyone if Americans influenced US foreign policy, cause up till now their influence on that subject was 0! (Vietnam War protests aside)
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted October 31, 2004 06:16 PM

Any strategies you have to offer for doing this, Svarog, aside from comprehensively reforming the Democratic Party (lets put it this way -- doable strategies) are welcome!!!!

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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted November 01, 2004 01:54 AM

First and foremost, raising the awareness of the masses (medias [i know; not likely], NGO's, college profesors..).
Without that, all is for nothing.

..Or create a website peacemaker.com, and send spam e-mails all around USA to advertise it.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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LordTitan
LordTitan


Famous Hero
Hit Dice: 76d12+608 HP
posted November 02, 2004 01:20 AM

...
I'm starting to wonder what this war is about, because it's obviously not about weapons of mass destruction (That's been proven), and it's not about oil, because they could have taken it a long time ago.
I'm wondering if it's something deeper, much deeper.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 18, 2004 06:11 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 19 Nov 2004

The March toward stupidity continues....

Frontline:  Rumsfeld's War

I wish I had found this -- and posted it -- before the election.  It is a little irritating to try and watch at certain peak times of the day because it keeps pausing for several seconds at a time, but midmorning to mid afternoon seems to work best.  If you start having trouble with it, you might try closing and re-opening the segments, and if that doesn't work, just wait a few minutes and try again.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/pentagon/view/

I think many would find interesting a comparison between some of the dialogue that has gone on in this thread during the same time this documentary covers, and the doc itself, particularly noting whose observations and predictions have borne out.

The most amazing thing is that Rumsfeld is so good at dazzling the folks that despite everything, he is the last man standing.

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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
posted November 18, 2004 06:25 PM

LordTitan wrote:
Quote:
...I'm starting to wonder what this war is about, because it's obviously not about weapons of mass destruction (That's been proven), and it's not about oil, because they could have taken it a long time ago.
I'm wondering if it's something deeper, much deeper.
I think it has a dual-purpose...

1. To secure strategic natural resources (yes, oil) in the Middle East before the Communist countries begin their imperialistic expansion. (Think about it...Who will be able to stop China or North Korea from doing the same 20 years from now?  Perhaps that is why countries such as Iran want to pursue nuclear programs.)

2. To install and grow a democracy that, along with Afghanistan, will support and take some pressure off Israel.  (Israel is pretty much on its own in that region, and without the support of the United States, would probably be facing much more adversity than just the Palestinians.)

As always, just my two cents...
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted December 07, 2004 06:16 PM

reality check from a Marine in Fallujah

This letter was written by a First LT in the USMC stationed in Fallujah.

Subject: FALLUJAH UPDATE

Quote:
I hope everyone is doing well back home.  Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!!

We have been really busy out here lately and therefore I haven't had the opportunity to write too many updates.  Sorry.

As many of you know I have been involved in the Battle of Fallujah (Operation Phantom Fury) for the past few weeks.  It has been the wildest experience of my time in the Marine Corps.

My Battalion was the Main Effort during the attack.  We were given the Jolan District and the southern suburb we call "Queens."  These two areas, without a doubt, were the insurgency stronghold in the city.

We cleared every house (3 times) (bulldozed over a hundred with a D-9) and faced the insurgents one-on-one.  This is the way they preferred it.  For these guys, there is no honor in being martyred by a Abrams Tank or a Bradley.  They want the opportunity to take out an American Marine.  That was fine with us!

We were led into the city by the Army's 2/7 Cavalry.  They had the Tanks and Bradleys but only had about 90 dismounted troops who were capable of clearing out the small areas these guys hide.  They did a great job though.

We have about 900 Marines in my Battalion.  Every single guy performed like a seasoned professional and all did so with honor.  They really gave it their all.  22 Marines in my Battalion gave their lives for our country during this fight and over 200 Marines earned the Purple Heart.  Without a doubt, Third Battalion, First Marines (3/1) had the toughest mission for a reason.  We did the dirty work no one else wanted to do.  Thousands of dead insurgents will back me up on that statement.

We had been prepping for this fight for the past few months.  We made numerous "feints" or false attacks into the southern portion of the city where all of their bunkers and fighting positions were located.

We would act like we were moving in for a large attack (with tanks, air strikes, lots of troops and trucks, etc...) and take pot shots at the city.  After doing this a few times it was obvious they thought this was the direction we would do our major attack when the time was right.  This was the side of the city that the Marines attacked back in April.  Closer to the actual attack date, we dropped leaflets, passed messages over the radio, television and mosques speaker systems warning the "good citizens" to leave the city.  Furthermore, we shut off all the electricity, water, cell phones, etc.. a few days prior to the attack.  Finally, we continuously sonic boomed the city with jets at the speed of sound (this really pissed them off), played Rap/Rock 'n Roll Music and taunted them over loud speakers (this really! , really pisses them off!!) and began to shape targets with bombs and artillery.

We attacked the city from the North, under the darkness of night, and took them by surprise.  For the first day or two the insurgents were exposed outside of their houses while trying to get to alternate fighting positions in the North of the city.  Our pilots picked these guys off one by one.  Once we entered the city and started to move south, the fighting was up close and personal and the use of mortars, artillery and air support was really limited.  It is too complicated to know where all of the friendly units are within the city.

Booby trapped doors, car bombs, trip wires, dropping grenades through spider holes in the rooftops, pre-positioned machine guns, RPGs, snipers from the rooftops and minarets (mosque steeples), mortars, and landmines.  These were their means of fighting (we encountered all these types at some point in time).  They knew the houses they were hiding in and where the most complex hiding spots were located.  The spots that gave them the best geometry to fire on us without us seeing them.  These guys were smart, well trained and worst of all, willing to fight to the death. These were not the nickel and dimers we have been facing on the outskirts during the months leading up to this.

They knew how to fight us in an urban environment.  They didn't challenge the tanks and armor and blended in the city without obvious signs to target.  They would move house to house and fall back as we approached.  They had weapons/ammo staged in every house.  It was really complex.

After clearing the houses (over 3000) 3 different times and still finding insurgents, we just started to bulldoze the houses with D-9's.

It was awesome.  They were not expecting it and it was hilarious to watch.  I have some great photos.  I have great photos of the whole attack.  A ton of good stories too.  You will have to buy me a beer or two to get the good ones out of me though.

Bored yet?

My Battalion is the unit that had Kevin Site (NBC Reporter) attached.

We had the guy who allegedly murdered a wounded insurgent (I think he is faking it!).  There is an investigation and I am sure the military will come the correct conclusion.  Not much else to comment on there.

We also found/searched Zarqawis house (it was really shabby), tons of propaganda, money, weapons, ammo, torture chambers (sickos out here), videos of suicide bombings and beheadings, and the list goes on.  We killed Chechnyians, Syrians, Moroccans, Saudis, you name it.  This was the "show" for all of the weirdo terrorist/jihadist in the world.  We found other things that are still classified and I hope will be made public someday soon.  You wont believe it.  Bottom line is, this was a necessary mission.

The day before we step off on the attack, my Battalion had the 1st Annual Ben Hur Thundering Third Chariot Race.  You might have seen a few pictures on the news.  It was the tension breaker we all needed.

We had confiscated some horses and carts a while back.  We dressed up a number of Marines to look like chariot drivers (Spartans, Romans) and race the horses.  These horses were in terrible shape.  One was named "Ribs" for obvious reasons if you had seen the horse up close.

Eventually only one horse would race so we had time trials to determine the winner.  It was hilarious.  I will never forget it.

I am just back to get a shower and change of uniform (it's been 17 days) and then I am heading back into the city.  We should be there until the elections are done with and then we can come back home.  We haven't let the people back into Fallujah yet.  That is when it will get interesting.  I am sure we will see roadside bombs, car bombs and suicide bombers by the truck load.  We are trying to clean up the dead bodies and clear the streets of rubble before they can come back in.

Hopefully we will not be pressured to let them in anytime soon.


 
 


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ColdPhoenix
ColdPhoenix

Tavern Dweller
posted December 09, 2004 04:34 PM

Peacemaker, where did you get letter that from? Is it real?

It reads like a cliché of what the Bush-eyed US trooper thinks like, which is the only reason why I would maybe doubt its authenticity. Of course I've seen enough gung-ho marines on TV to fully believe it's genuine.

It does make me sick to see people who enjoy warfare so much.

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted December 09, 2004 05:26 PM

ColdPhoenix:

As far as I know, the letter is authentic.  It was forwarded to me from a friend of the man who wrote it.

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Svarog
Svarog


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Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted December 10, 2004 02:41 AM

PM, I'm interested to know what you took from that letter. "Reality check"???
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted December 10, 2004 05:50 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 10 Dec 2004

Well, assuming it's genuine (and based on my information it is) I'd say the title is intended to reference several points.

First, it's probably the most direct (i.e. real) information about what's actually happening over there right now of any other source relaying information.  It's told from a first-hand perspective by a guy who is in the thick of it.

Second, I tended to get a similar sense from it as ColdPhoenix did -- the guy seems numbed by the whole experience into actually thinking it's kind-of exciting.  I mean he's describing massive killing and chaos, and the whole tone of the letter reads like a letter from a boy telling about all the exciting things happening while he is at camp.  Now I'm not a guy and I think many guys have an ability to think differently about violent situations with bodies lying around smoldering a bit differently than women.  

I dunno.  Maybe not.  Maybe if I were there in the same situation I might become numbed to that harsh reality as well in order to psychologically survive it.  But either way, clearly, I thought that the psychological message in the letter was rather striking.  And knowing some soldiers have returned to re-connect with their humanity and become appalled at what they did while there, I further have grave concerns for the psyches of anybody in the situation and dealing with it firsthand.

I also thought of it as a reality check for how much damage we're actually causing.  I mean for chrissakes, they tell all the "friendlies" to leave their city, and now they're bulldozing down every house as they go.  How would we feel if an invading army came over here, booted us out of our cities, and then when they let us come back all our houses and personal belongings had been destroyed???  Is it any wonder the Iraqi Citizenry's outcry for us to get the hell out is on the increase???

I suppose different people could take different kinds of "reality checks" away from that letter.  But those were my thoughts when posting it.

Thanks for asking, Svarog.

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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted December 11, 2004 08:29 PM

Quote:
...the guy seems numbed by the whole experience into actually thinking it's kind-of exciting.

Of course it's exciting!  Explosions everywhere, that's what makes action movies exciting.
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Vadskye91
Vadskye91


Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
posted December 22, 2004 10:43 PM

Yeah, you know, having guns, mortars, and so on pointed at my head really brightens my day...
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Knowledge is power...

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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted December 22, 2004 11:04 PM

Exciting to me is anything that gets your adrenaline pumping.  
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted December 23, 2004 01:58 AM

What if I cut your toes one by one? That'll sure make your adrenaline levels sky-rocketing! Exciting, isnt it?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted December 23, 2004 02:09 AM

It sure would be, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't do that.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted January 17, 2005 07:09 AM

Ugh....

Did someone say 'reality checks'? I was in the airforce for 4.5 yrs. Reality keeps you awake at night, protects your family, and gives you the test of adulthood.

What is adulthood? It's blood; a river of it. Now go get some sleep; you have eight hours. That's an order.

Reality = when it's over.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
posted January 17, 2005 08:53 AM
Edited By: Khayman on 17 Jan 2005

Reality Check...Right Backatchya!

Just saw Peacemaker's letter she posted here (see above)...

From Khayman's little perspective, here is the 'reality' of the situation and of the individual who may have written it (regardless of the letter's authenticity):

If you are a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, you are paid to perform your job just like everyone else in the civilian world, but here in lies the difference...

You are funded by the United States Government (and yes, also by its taxpayers) to perform a job where you are given consent to kill and/or be killed.  Pretty plain and simple.  

(On a side note, I always love to hear the stories about soldiers complaining that they didn't join the military to 'go to war', they just joined to learn a technical skill or get money for college.  Oops, too bad...now pack your trash, soldier, and try not to get us all killed.)

However, although those individuals may be getting paid to kill, there is always an additional cost involved.  Those individuals who are doing the killing have to deal with the consequences of their actions for the rest of their lives (and perhaps even in the afterlife, you never know).  On the flip side, if those individuals lose their lives performing their duties, then their commanders, family, friends, and countless others will have to deal with the grief of their death.  Just something to think about...

So, in parting, try not to be so critical of those whose job involves warfare, death, and destruction.  Ask yourself this:

Are they...

Clones with a false sense of patriotism?  Possibly
Bush brainwashed individuals?  Maybe
Uncompassionate killers?  Perhaps
Professionals with a passion for their jobs?  ABSOLUTELY

If only others would put as much effort and determination into their jobs as the above individual...

As the saying goes..."The world needs ditch diggers, too."...and I take a lot of pride in the ditch that I have produced.

EDIT: Had to fix my ditch.  Ah, that's better.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted January 17, 2005 11:58 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 17 Jan 2005

Hey Khay!!!

Whereya been???

I hope you didn't think I was being disrespectful or critical or anything.  My comments arose more out of a sense of bewilderment and concern for the mental health of the soldiers than any kind of disrespect.

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