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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 03, 2005 08:12 PM |
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You Are Too Kind Peacemaker
I was very shocked when I saw him on t.v. last night being honored by the president. I knew the guy for most of my childhood. And then when his wife hugged the Iraqi woman, I was very moved. It's kinda sad when the president does all that for someone you know over the death of his son. It made me think of all the childish things I used to say and do to the man.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2005 08:34 PM |
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As expected.
It seems the truth is coming out!
Report says U.S. spy agencies were 'dead wrong' about Iraq
Last Updated Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:29:35 EST
CBC News
WASHINGTON - A U.S. presidential commission, reviewing intelligence information in connection to the lead up to the invasion of Iraq, has offered some damning conclusions about the conduct of the CIA and other spy agencies in the lead-up to the Iraq war.
INDEPTH: Iraq
George W. Bush (File Photo)
The report concludes the agencies were "dead wrong" about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
The report says the U.S. intelligence agencies knew "disturbingly little" about the most dangerous threats in the world today.
The nine member Commission on Intelligence Capabilities and Weapons of Mass Destruction was appointed by George W. Bush a year ago. The report does not directly criticize Bush or anyone in his administration, but it does say that problems have been allowed to fester for far too long.
"They got wrong the critical judgments with respect to nuclear weapons, with respect to biological weapons and with respect to chemical weapons," said former Democratic Senator Chuck Robb of Virginia, who along with retired judge Laurence Silberman, a well-known conservative Republican, co-chaired the commission.
In their report U.S. spy agencies come across as fools; blinded by having too few agents in the field; made stupid because in seeing only what they wanted to they produced worthless conclusions; and immature because they obsessively indulged in inter-agency turf wars.
"They had very little evidence collected. What little evidence they had they pushed into assumptions based on the past behaviour of Saddam Hussein," said Silberman.
"The central conclusion is one that I share," said President Bush. "America's intelligence community needs fundamental change."
Bush seemed satisfied with the Commission's conclusions, a "sharp critique" he called it.
Robb and Silberman said they found no evidence that the spymasters were pressured by their political masters to find weapons of mass destruction where none existed, in order to falsely justify a war. "If somebody has a member of the intelligence community that can say to us we changed our analysis ... we haven't heard from them," said Robb.
The report also says, in one section, that "across the board, the intelligence community knows disturbingly little about the nuclear programs of many of the world's most dangerous actors," an oblique but obvious reference to Iran and North Korea.
But that section of the report remains classified. "We simply cannot talk about those subjects," said Silberman.
Note: taken from cbc.ca
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 01, 2005 09:37 PM |
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RonaldMcD
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 01, 2005 09:47 PM |
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I know a lot of you are against the war in Iraq, but just think of the new market it opened up!
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Khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted April 02, 2005 12:50 AM |
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Finally, A True Capitalist After My Own Heart!
Ronny McD wrote:Quote:
I know a lot of you are against the war in Iraq, but just think of the new market it opened up!
To hell with WMDs, oil, and democracy in the Middle East...Give me a McBaghdad Burger and a side order of McFallujah Fries!
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 07, 2005 02:22 PM |
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about this war my dad thinks that america just like starting wars to make them more allies and to show their domination.
i dont agree with this but i thought that u might want to discuss this opinion
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 08, 2005 12:46 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 7 Apr 2005
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Its illogical that the reason was making new allies, cos US lost even those they already had. Showing domination seems like a more sound argument, but impractical. Showing off has no relevance in politics. A more furtunately chosen term would be "to confirm domination" imo.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted April 11, 2005 07:51 PM |
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In all fairness, how close were those allies really?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 12, 2005 12:29 AM |
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I seem to recall that they had supported the US in previous actions, so it's not too far a stretch to say that it was the "With us or against us" rhetoric that did considerable damage to the relationship.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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a_rebirthing...
Supreme Hero
with rebirthing power
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posted April 12, 2005 12:53 PM |
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i think things are summed up here
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'Tis better to rely on the the wit of your brain rather than the speed of your hands and mouse -me
Being happy isn't just an emotion, it's a choice!-Leo_Lion
It's Gortex!!!
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 12, 2005 05:20 PM |
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Quote:
In all fairness, how close were those allies really?
As close as their political interesses made them be!Romania is also one of the "strategical allies" in the Coallition of the Willing.
I felt really bad&ashamed when i saw "Farenheit 9.11" and my country was mocked and put in the same category as a country that "volonteered to send 200 monkeys to help defusing mines".That's when i first started wondering why small countries as my own are part of this.
Zbigniew Brezisnky, who is a high US official&one of the biggest geo-strategists in the world said in his work "The great chess-table"(don't know the exact title that's how it was translated in romanian):"US must search for support from regions of the globe considered as pivots.It needs those pivots to work on it's benefit cos the one that controlles the pivot controlles the heartland."
In other words US needs it's puppets, and it's puppets feed on the hopes&dreams thrown from the big boys table. What loyalty can you pretend from those countres sending their men to fight a war not their own?They say(to us) that our country needs to protect it's borders even 2000 miles away cos the threat of terorism is omnipresent. Sounds like **** to me.
I know all aspects must've been disected on this thread more than once, i just want to say this:"Alea jacta est!"
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 13, 2005 01:30 AM |
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Quote:
They say(to us) that our country needs to protect it's borders even 2000 miles away cos the threat of terorism is omnipresent.
So I should be happy then since at least my government wont consider me a mindless drone. They openly admit that the reason cos we supported Iraq intervention was because we need the support from US, and without sucking up to the big powers we are next to meaningless on the global political chessboard. Which is true really.
Hadnt we supported the intervention, the US might not have recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name, cos it was one major step in the serie of pro-American moves (including the exemption of US nationals from ICC jurisdiction). Looks like a worthy trade in the world of cruel pragmatical reality.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 13, 2005 01:57 AM |
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I'm reminded of the phrase "The coallition of the coerced and bribed". At least the Macedonians admit to their motives, one imagines many of the allies were supporting the USA in Iraq under similar reasoning.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted April 13, 2005 02:08 AM |
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going offtopic here...
but i do have a request... can you please stop using the term "Macedonia(n)" till the whole issue is solved? cause i live for the last seven years in the capitol of Macedonia and it sure as hell is not the country Svarog is in...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 13, 2005 02:16 AM |
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Quote:
going offtopic here...
Surely that's the purpose of this thread? 
Request noted, however some sort of background would be useful 
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 13, 2005 06:55 AM |
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AFAIK ur greek, right lith?
This is indeed a delicate issue.Having people with the same ethnical background spread around in 3 different states isn't a problem with a easy way out.
The Balcans have always been the gunpowder can of the Europe.Seems like things won't change soon in that matter.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 14, 2005 02:10 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 13 Apr 2005
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PH, and others; for historical reference for the problem our Greek friends seem to be having with us, Macedonians, refer to the article I wrote (which can be found in the Educational articles thread). Also, Lith you are welcomed there to discuss anything historic any time.
As for using or not the name; it's every person's right to choose how to speak. However, it's also every person's right to choose how they'll call themselves. This sounds exactly like:
"Who are you?"
"I am Lith."
"No, you are not Lith. My aunt's also called Lith."
"But that's how other people call me."
"What?! Cant be. Everybody! Stop refering to this person as Lith until the issue between us is resolved."
I have a request also: Can you people refrain from using the term "America(n)" when refering to the residents of the US, and use "European invading settlers" instead? Cos I know about a continent thats called America and it sure aint the country they live in.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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privatehudson
Responsible
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The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 14, 2005 02:15 AM |
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Yes I'm aware of the points you've raised in the past, I'm just awaiting the other side of the story from Lith. I'm sure he feels he has some valid reasons, and would be interested to hear them.
Can I request we don't get silly about this?
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Lith-Maethor
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Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted April 14, 2005 05:28 AM |
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le sigh...
i think this should either be discussed in a new thread or not at all, but anyway...
as quite a few Balkans (not just greek) will say, the country some refer to as "Macedonia" is a rather weird experience... after doing some research with people i know from the countries around us, they seem to have created a country out of whatever elements they liked from the rest of us... a name here, a historical persona there, a bit of the history of this or that region... basically an amalgam of Balkan history from the time of Alexander till now...
this is not a simple matter of "hi, I'm george" "well look at that... I'm george too" ...the two regions using the name "Macedonia" at the moment (rightfully or not) are next to each other and both where in the past part of the empire alexander built... with the part i live in, being the very core... by using the name, things get confusing, as people try to take the history of another nation as their own... even though nobody with a basic knowledge of history or geography would ever confuse the two regions (the country and the main part of northern greece) sadly our world is inhabited mostly by people who are ignorant...
...unless i am mistaken, there are at least 20 towns, cities and villages in the state that use the name Athens... of course there is no chance anyone will ever confuse any of them with our capitol (unless of course we are talking about people who have Xena and Hercules as their only guide) when things get closer and when with the name, the history is used as well, things get dangerous... very dangerous indeed ...there is a tribe somewhere in asia that have more ties to alexander than the people of Skopje (or FYROM if you want me to be politically (in)correct) will ever have
...what happens here is as if all of a sudden two States in the US started using the same name and claimed they have the same history... there is not a single historical evidence to back the claims of that country... and a simple or not so simple search will reveal this... i am part macedonian, part thessalian... and i never trusted school books to teach me history... i always did my own digging... however, in this particular case, all sources i ever came across gave no hints whatsoever that Macedonia has ever been anything but Greece, whatever the "tribe" ruling it was... on that note, Macedonians were more related to Spartans than any other Greek ...does this mean this country can claim sparta as well?
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted April 14, 2005 07:29 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Apr 2005
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Finally...
...A debate of great significance and importance.
This is truly what lies at the heart, yes heart of the matter for Greece and the Former Yugoslav republic now calling itself Macedonia. I say heart with great enthusiasm because, as Lith-Maethor has commented, regardless of what the history books say it is more important what the people think of and feel is deep within their hearts.
The books say what they've always said: Macedonia was ruled by Alexander the Great, the youngest ruler ever to conquer the 'known' world. But the books are far from representative of what lies at the heart of what people truly feel inside. This is an important concept because it is what helps determine the identity of a people, be they large or small. A peoples' identity is intrensically linked to something that relates on a very personal level to the individual who was created in it. National identity is a very important part of what allows millions of people to unite behind a single flag, to stand for they think is most important, and to tell the world in a single voice that they must be heard. It's all really quite amazing if you think about the countless number of civilizations who've evolved into what they are today.
I must point out that there are also a lot of people who consider Alexander the Great to be quote:
~"The most charismatic leader ever."
~"The most skilled military general."
~"The bravest warrior."
Hmm....I don't know if I really quite agree with such drama but he was certainly an important figure in history; the least of which I would associate with the entirely rich Greek history and culture. The Greeks have done so many other significant and important things for the whole world that I see very little significance in Alexander the Great who most likely had the throne being kept warm for him by his mother.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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