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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 20, 2014 11:21 PM |
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War-overlord said:
And this isn't about deserving, it's about throwing away faction defining staples.
Well things aren't as black and white as that. I wan't the Unicorn in Sylvan - very much. I also think the Phoenix would probably make a better champion than the Treant, even though I'm not particularly keen on a Sylvan Phoenix (nor think it makes ANY sense with the lore they've written for Ashan). Yet my votes still lies, albeit marginally, with Fury as the least bad of the three line-ups they've offered us.
Why? Well since Balance doesn't offer us a Unicorn either, at least with Fury we get the Deer, which I'm willing to offer a chance as a substitute. Blade Dancer artwork, even if only an artwork, looks much much MUCH better than Emerald Knight. I'm not completely sold on the Dryad, but at least it will have synergy with the Treant, and I like it better than the Snake. And gameplay-wise, I think I'll enjoy an offensive Sylvan more than a defensive one.
So between the three line-ups they've offered us, which I all find to be sub-optimal, my vote lies with Fury. That doesn't mean I happily throw away "faction defining staples" as you put it - but that's the premise of the way they designed the poll. If they had instead given us the imo. more obvious poll design to let us choose three core, three elite and two champions freely, that's not how my line-up would look. But then, that's not the option they gave us, and I'm not to blame for that.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 20, 2014 11:30 PM |
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alcibiades said:
So between the three line-ups they've offered us, which I all find to be sub-optimal, my vote lies with Fury. That doesn't mean I happily throw away "faction defining staples" as you put it - but that's the premise of the way they designed the poll. If they had instead given us the imo. more obvious poll design to let us choose three core, three elite and two champions freely, that's not how my line-up would look. But then, that's not the option they gave us, and I'm not to blame for that.
Yes, but with the way the poll is designed, we have 3 options.
1 Strength: Keeping the Staple. Best vote
2 Balance: Trading the Staple for a less frequent one and a staple in a different way. suboptimal vote. Edit: plus hoping for the possibility of the Staple returning as a mount.
3 Fury: Throwing the Staple away. Worst vote.
alcibiades said:
And gameplay-wise, I think I'll enjoy an offensive Sylvan more than a defensive one.
Marzhin already confirmed that all Sylvan line-ups are offensive. Some line ups are simply even more offensive.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:36 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 23:40, 20 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
the majority agrees with me that it isn't the beter option. If only 40% votes Fury, then the majority disagrees with it.
Come on, war-overlord, you are cheating a bit here. =(
Following that logic:
- balance only got 36%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
- strength only got 24%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
Alci comment was perfect and is exactly how I feel.
I'm not voting Fury because this represent the most perfect line-up ever created by homo-sapiens, but because I consider the best of the given options.
And by way, my priorities are exactly the same as yours: flavor, lore and what fit the sylvan theme better.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 20, 2014 11:37 PM |
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Well basically what you say is you don't think there can be any Sylvan without Unicorn - or at least, any Sylvan with Unicorn is better than any Sylvan without Unicorn. I do think the Unicorn should be in Sylvan, but I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I have to take the combined value of things, and when pitching the Unicorn + Snake + Emerald Knight against the Deer + Sprite + Blade Dancer, the latter comes out marginally ahead.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 20, 2014 11:38 PM |
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jhb said:
Come on, war-overlord, you are cheating a bit here. =(
Following that logic:
- balance only got 36%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
- strength only got 24%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
I agree that the vote is fundamentally flawed.
But as long as no one option gets more then 50%, then no option has the majority.
alcibiades said:
Well basically what you say... any Sylvan with Unicorn is better than any Sylvan without Unicorn.
Yes, very much so.
alcibiades said:
I do think the Unicorn should be in Sylvan, but I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I have to take the combined value of things, and when pitching the Unicorn + Snake + Emerald Knight against the Deer + Sprite + Blade Dancer, the latter comes out marginally ahead.
It is your right to think so and it is my right to disagree with that.
I highly doubt that we can get any further then an agreement to disagree, here.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:42 PM |
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War-overlord said:
jhb said:
Come on, war-overlord, you are cheating a bit here. =(
Following that logic:
- balance only got 36%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
- strength only got 24%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
I agree that the vote is fundamentally flawed.
But as long as no one option gets more then 50%, then no option has the majority.
Oh ok, now I understand what you were trying to say.
Maybe if Fury wins, they could make another pool for: keep deer or change for unicorn, would that make fury look better for you? 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 20, 2014 11:44 PM |
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jhb said:
Oh ok, now I understand what you were trying to say.
Maybe if Fury wins, they could make another pool for: keep deer or change for unicorn, would that make fury look better for you?
Yes.
And if we get an option to kick out either the dryad or the sprite for something that isn't plant-people, I would be even happier.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:44 PM |
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jhb said:
War-overlord said:
jhb said:
Come on, war-overlord, you are cheating a bit here. =(
Following that logic:
- balance only got 36%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
- strength only got 24%, then the majority also agree that isn't the better.
I agree that the vote is fundamentally flawed.
But as long as no one option gets more then 50%, then no option has the majority.
Oh ok, now I understand what you were trying to say.
Maybe if Fury wins, they could make another pool for: keep deer or change for unicorn, would that make fury look better for you?
Well that would not be a good idea since some people voted because of the deer option. Doing that would just make people angry.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 20, 2014 11:46 PM |
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lokdron said:
Well that would not be a good idea since some people voted because of the deer option. Doing that would just make people angry.
Fury winning will make people angry as well.
Which is why the whole concept is flawed.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted September 20, 2014 11:50 PM |
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what about the WORST option for the vote?
what you guys think?
i find balance the worst
and i dont think its balanced actually
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:52 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 00:04, 21 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
lokdron said:
Well that would not be a good idea since some people voted because of the deer option. Doing that would just make people angry.
Fury winning will make people angry as well.
Which is why the whole concept is flawed.
Well of course someone is going to be upset but doing a vote like that in my opinion is not a good idea. I was upset that dwarves lost but I moved on I dealt with it people wanted Sylvan in the and I accepted that. Just like people have to accept that their lineup might not win.
They can't put all these creatures in the game so they left it to a public vote I agree its not perfect. What else can they do? If the developers decide the line up themselves and done away with the vote system someone out there WILL be upset with their choices. They will ask why so and so was not picked instead of the unit they wanted.
I think this is the most "fairest" option of the lot. Someone will be upset no matter what.
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Royin
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:55 PM |
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To be honest I just want the polls to be fair, the rumors about multi-accounting make everyone go paranoid so I hope they correct that.
I also hope that if no choice gets the majority (over 50%) they'll just take it as a hint that the community can't decide over this and create the units themselves as they did with the other 4 factions. This will just end up being a disappointment to at least 2/3rd of the voting fanbase no matter who 'wins'.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2014 11:59 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 00:53, 21 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
jhb said:
Oh ok, now I understand what you were trying to say.
Maybe if Fury wins, they could make another pool for: keep deer or change for unicorn, would that make fury look better for you?
Yes.
And if we get an option to kick out either the dryad or the sprite for something that isn't plant-people, I would be even happier.
Like I said before, I'm not against the deer, but I asked this, because I know how unicorn is iconic for Sylvan, and maybe that could make more people happy.
For me, in H1 and H2 specially, we had more of a "fairy" faction theme, even dwarves were there.
But with all the changes and the new lore, phoenix really don't fit this faction, imo.
The snakes would fit better in other factions and the emerald knight don't capture the elven feeling (imo), this word "knight" already bother me a bit. It's too "paladinish".
As for Blade Dancers, as much as I understand people not liking that unit in H5, they represent the agile savage warriors of the forest, fits better, imo.
lokdron said:
Well that would not be a good idea since some people voted because of the deer option. Doing that would just make people angry.
yeah, I understand.
Edit:
Just to clarify a little more, a faction with both snakes and unicorns feels a bit inadequate.
unicorns usually are a symbol of a magical and tranquil animal, symbol of the absolute purity, a guardian of the grove.
And then, suddenly he got the snake as an ally, the symbol of treachery, trickery, cowardice, an dishonorable animal. A creature that will lie, and trap the enemies in a dirty way.
These 2 as allies sounds a bit bizarre for me.
By the way, I don't hate snakes in the real world (or fictitious), lol! I'm just talking about the symbolism here.
So, overall, my vote was by elimination. I tried to cut what didn't look fitting.
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Raelag84
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 01:05 AM |
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War-overlord said:
lokdron said:
Alright then if you think that's the case if its soooo wrong why doesn't everyone change their vote to balance? If fury is SUCH an abomination and insult and should be kept out of the series?
They should change their vote to Stength!
Why?
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Hanzan
Hired Hero
May Sandro rule forever
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posted September 21, 2014 01:11 AM |
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Edited by Hanzan at 01:13, 21 Sep 2014.
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The voters of balance have been working day and night to sway more to their cause. And did well tbh... But the majority doesnt want H1/H2 elves in H7 so ever since Fury took the lead they have been accusing everyone for cheating...
I have nothing against snake or deer...or the unicorn for that matter. Those are just fine. But the phoenix shouldnt have been in any lineup. It made people go crazy and now we have a flame war going on under the voteing.
It doesnt seem to be any cheating though. Balance lost 1 or 2 percent to fury before strength gained a couple. seemingly coming from balance as they lost a couple aswell.
All i ever want is either a defensive one or a offensive one. a passive kind of thing seem like such a lackluster..
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Well, I guess you'll have to
kill me. Go on, send me to the
afterlife....
- Markal, Infiltrator of the
Holy Court.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 21, 2014 02:46 AM |
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adriancat said:
Vote FURYYYYYY !!! Vote if you support this :
Vote for Sylanna's Fury because :
- Rush now, think later!
FTFY
DarkLord said:
what about the WORST option for the vote?
what you guys think?
i find balance the worst
and i dont think its balanced actually
Read Sleeping_sun 2nd response to Stevie. Balance lineup is the most balanced.
Avonu said:
So Fury wins by now. Just great.
Why do people always vote more with their eyes and less with their brains?
I wonder how Fury will overcome mazed battlefield and avoid flanked attacks, where it haven't any flying unit (who would not die from first counter-strike or flanked attack) and it tanks (which would be available in end game ) would block Blade Dancers and deers paths to enemy?
Blade Dancer need large, clear battlefield to use his special attack and while doing it, he is vulnerable to attacks from behind and flanks (more damage done to this low defense unit).
Deers seem to be large (2x2) unit, so good luck with doing anything with them, while your Treant or Dragon would block enemies (see catapult battlefield in screenshots).
Emerald Knight as far as we can guess has stike and return ability - so she should survive longer then Blade Dancer (who can't retreat after attack to safer position).
Root Snake is one big question, but from lore description seems it could not only crowd control enemies but maybe also poison them. You probably won't need to waste Druids to entagle enemies, you could use them to shoot at foes.
Sylvan was first so nice faction but now... I don't know but seems you would have big problems in early and middle game until you get champions and some levels with your hero. Good luck to taking down enemy shooters and casters.
Shhhh, just wait one year till people see the big pile of snow they chose, it'll be priceless!
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 21, 2014 08:49 AM |
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If you voted STRENGTH, be sure its doomed and change to BALANCE, fury is simply madness and we can still stop it!
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 09:17 AM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 09:27, 21 Sep 2014.
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Anyone who voted fury,voted for the preference. If people didn't want to the phoenix they could go to strength.
Strength voters went to balance to keep fury down.so a big chunk of balance was people who didn't want to see fury.not people who really like balance. And now those people go back to strength.
All this because of a deer and a blade dancer (since all other units exist here and there)
How bad can they be?
I saw some really bitter comments here,and all i'll say is "calm down".
I didn't go crazy ,here,insulting other people's choices when balance was winning. I tried to find arguments in favor of fury or why i didn't like balance in a civilized way.
Whichever line up wins will be tweaked as hell,so we will have the optimal gameplay. So no line up will be "snow" in the end.
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leiah2
Known Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 09:46 AM |
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ChrisD1 said:
Anyone who voted fury,voted for the preference. If people didn't want to the phoenix they could go to strength.
Strength voters went to balance to keep fury down.so a big chunk of balance was people who didn't want to see fury.not people who really like balance. And now those people go back to strength.
All this because of a deer and a blade dancer (since all other units exist here and there)
How bad can they be?
I saw some really bitter comments here,and all i'll say is "calm down".
I didn't go crazy ,here,insulting other people's choices when balance was winning. I tried to find arguments in favor of fury or why i didn't like balance in a civilized way.
Whichever line up wins will be tweaked as hell,so we will have the optimal gameplay. So no line up will be "snow" in the end.
+1
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted September 21, 2014 09:56 AM |
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Deer is bestial with his coat and his seetle in the line-up show how important the background is. Indeed, i m afraid when i saw the deer..but Unicorns are too sweet and druid looks gradually to the deer style.
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