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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 21, 2014 12:32 PM |
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jhb said:
Well, I hope no one jump on my neck for posting more madness ... =/
but if fury hypothetically win, just hypothetically... what do you think about theses pics?
I think the first one looks nice, the horns are like branches. But, the second one might fit better in this "twilight" theme.
Technically, deer have antlers, not horns. But that's just a technicallity.
These pictures look nice. But that does not change my opinion that the deer pales in comparisson to the Unicorn.
Edit:
dark-whisperer said:
Just to be clear this post is not directed for War-Overlord but to the people on forum in general. Im sorry if that wasn't clear.
I did not take it personally, since I do not recall myself attacking people verbally. But the disclaimer is certainly appreciated.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 12:34 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 12:36, 21 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
jhb said:
Well, I hope no one jump on my neck for posting more madness ... =/
but if fury hypothetically win, just hypothetically... what do you think about theses pics?
I think the first one looks nice, the horns are like branches. But, the second one might fit better in this "twilight" theme.
Technically, deer have antlers, not horns. But that's just a technicallity.
These pictures look nice. But that does not change my opinion that the deer pales in comparisson to the Unicorn.
Ops, forgot to say, these aren't Deers, but Stags.
Edit: Idk what are the ifferences lol. But they are Stags I think.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 12:37 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Is it a snake though? Because the only thing that implies that it is, is the name. The artwork and description imply something else.
Because I see the Root Snake as a carnivorous plant, more accurately a carnivorous creeper vine that has nestled itself in a similar evolutionary niche.
I think there's no need to debate the obvious. It's a Snake no matter how you look at it. It obviously has plant-like similarities by the fact that it's named Root, but by behavioral patterns, constriction, slithering, injecting venom, it's a Snake entirely. Claiming it's something else is wishful thinking at best. I doubt Marzhin would have written about a Snake if it weren't a Snake.
War-overlord said:
Further more, vileness and especially maliciousness need to be deliberate. Whether the Root Snake is a Plant or an Animal, it is almost certainly not sentient. And as a non-sentient being, it cannot be held accountable for its deeds. So a snake is no more vile or malicious then a wolf or a lion. That snakes are being perceived so, is biblical prejudice.
"So a snake is no more vile or malicious then a wolf or a lion, or an Unicorn". Continue the argument fully, not only where it suits your case. So if by any reason Snake's maliciousness is discarded because not being sentient then also the Unicorn follows suit, losing any attributes which we may perceive as qualities because of any prejudice for that matter, not only biblical.
So what you actually managed to do here is to bring the Snake and the Unicorn to the same level. Not only you deny the Snakes vileness and maliciousness with the "not sentient" argument, but you also strip the Unicorn of its dignity and purity for the same reasons.
This makes me question the reason for your vote, or your ability to vote for that matter. If by any stretch of the imagination, a Snake is on the same level as an Unicorn to you, then I cannot trust your fealty and respect for the Unicorn by any means. You are doing more harm than anything.
Royin said:
Stevie said:
Sophism, entirely.
This is not a vote for obtaining a majority of 50% + 1. This is a vote of obtaining a majority of 33% + 1, which by every poll definition is still a majority.
What you describe is plurality, not a majority. A majority is >50% of all voters. Think about it. If you have 10 options and 101 eligible voters. 9 options get 10 votes and the 10th gets 11. The 11 voters together gave their choice the most votes compared to other options (plurality) but they are not the majority as they aren't 51 voters together. That means that 90 out of 101 people still didn't pick their option for whatever reason.
This does in no way reflect the poll we're talking about, just trying to make my point clear.
If we are to differentiate Majority from Plurality, then yes, that is correct. In which case WO's argumentation is totally besides the point. There is no need for a majority, but for the highest plurality.
I was simply granting the synonimy between the words for his argument's sake. If he meant Majority specifically then his case does not stand because it doesn't reflect reality.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 21, 2014 12:37 PM |
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jhb said:
Ops, forgot to say, these aren't Deers, but Stags.
Doesn't matter. A stag is a male deer. A doe is a female deer. And there are species of deer in which both the male and female have antlers. Never horns, though. Deer are defined by their antlers, which they shed each year. Whereas other creatures have permanent horns.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 21, 2014 12:40 PM |
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Stevie said:
This makes me question the reason for your vote, or your ability to vote for that matter. If by any stretch of the imagination, a Snake is on the same level as an Unicorn to you, then I cannot trust your fealty and respect for the Unicorn by any means. You are doing more harm than anything.
As I've said time and again; I vote for the Unicorn for it's iconic part in the history of the faction.
Also, there is no need to get personal.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 12:41 PM |
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I'd take unicorns over stags any day 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 12:45 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Stevie said:
This makes me question the reason for your vote, or your ability to vote for that matter. If by any stretch of the imagination, a Snake is on the same level as an Unicorn to you, then I cannot trust your fealty and respect for the Unicorn by any means. You are doing more harm than anything.
As I've said time and again. I vote for the Unicorn for it's iconic part in the history of the faction.
Also, there is no need to get personal.
I lost any respect I had for your vote when you defended subpar Unicorn bundled with vile Snakes.
I'm getting personal because there's no other way I can relate to you. There is no other argument that you bring in favor of Unicorns than subjective ones.
You haven't addressed my points in my last reply. Should I understand something from that? Where do you stand now regarding your "non-sentient" argument?
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 12:48 PM |
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War-overlord said:
As I've said time and again; I vote for the Unicorn for it's iconic part in the history of the faction.
Also, there is no need to get personal.
but you got personal about other peoples' choices!!! saying we vote for the line up that offends the game we all love? come on!!
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alex_yakub
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 12:49 PM |
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Wow, it's 25 for Strength now! And Fury lost one percent. This is starting to look good 
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 21, 2014 01:00 PM |
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Stevie said:
I lost any respect I had for your vote when you defended subpar Unicorn bundled with vile Snakes.
I'm getting personal because there's no other way I can relate to you. There is no other argument that you bring in favor of Unicorns than subjective ones.
You haven't addressed my points in my last reply. Should I understand something from that? Where do you stand now regarding your "non-sentient" argument?
If you read the description of root snakes you would understand they are tamed by elves and serve basically as their pets.
They are not sentient and act just like any other carnivorous creature would if it wanted to survive in the jungle. They are not evil or intentionally malicious, not in Ashan.
I also suggest you to read this:
dark-whisperer said:
I admire people like War-Overlord that are so passionate about this game. I am the same. We don't have same point of view but I can see where he is coming from.
Important thing to remember is that we have only vague description of creatures and concept art that is not even from this game.
Don't insult your own intelligence by attacking people with different opinions. We cant form decision based on facts, so its not wise to argue about particular creatures like we have all information. Arguing how will certain creature behave in hypothetical combat situation and in imaginary battlefield without any usable data does not belong in adult and intelligent exchange of views.
At this point its equally valid to defend unicorn for its historical value and wanting to see new creature like sun deer. We don't need to like other opinion but there is no objective way to to say which creature will suit faction better.
One cannot defend objectively his ground without all information and after seeing creature in action/final concept art/all abilities and stats in detail. For this time we can only use our preference subjectively. So there is no point in further argument in this heated manner especially insulting someone for different views.
Just to be clear this post is not directed to War-Overlord but to the people on forum in general. Im sorry if that wasn't clear.
You went from passive aggressive attitude to border line offensive. This voting is clearly getting under your skin so I suggest you take a break.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 01:11 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 13:12, 21 Sep 2014.
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blizz said:
Stevie said:
I lost any respect I had for your vote when you defended subpar Unicorn bundled with vile Snakes.
I'm getting personal because there's no other way I can relate to you. There is no other argument that you bring in favor of Unicorns than subjective ones.
You haven't addressed my points in my last reply. Should I understand something from that? Where do you stand now regarding your "non-sentient" argument?
If you read the description of root snakes you would understand they are tamed by elves and serve basically as their pets.
They are not sentient and act just like any other carnivorous creature would if it wanted to survive in the jungle. They are not evil or intentionally malicious, not in Ashan.
You went from passive aggressive attitude to border line offensive. This voting is clearly getting under your skin so I suggest you take a break.
You are basically reiterating the same "non-sentient" argument which's refutation that I made neither you neither you nor WO tried to disprove. Funny, as I even mentioned it in the quotation you took.
And if there's anything offensive here is the fact that we'll get Unicorns and Snakes in the same line-up and people are trying to defend that.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted September 21, 2014 01:18 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 13:20, 21 Sep 2014.
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Iconic creatures for factions are the ones that define the faction
Academy > Titan , Magi , Djinn
Dungeon > Black Dragon , Minotaur
Haven > Champion, Angel
Inferno > Devil, Cerberus
Necropolis > Skeleton, Vampire
Stronghold > Cyclops , Orc (melee)
Sylvan > Hunter (ranged elf) , druid , UNICORN!!!
while i dont mind new creatures , i dont think the iconic creatures should be compromised
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted September 21, 2014 01:18 PM |
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Stevie said:
And if there's anything offensive here is the fact that we'll get Unicorns and Snakes in the same line-up and people are trying to defend that.
You presented no valid arguments why that wouldn't work either. As pointed out over and over again root snakes are not evil or represent something impure.
They act as pets just like a tamed wolf would while a wild one would probably still kill you to ensure it's survival not because it's evil. It's called instinct.
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alex_yakub
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 01:20 PM |
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Changed my vote to Strength again. Hope it will at least get the second place 
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted September 21, 2014 01:22 PM |
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i agree that having a snake in Sylvan is out of place, same as having phoenix
but its even more out of place not to have unicorns in it
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 01:24 PM |
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Edited by jhb at 13:27, 21 Sep 2014.
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DarkLord said:
Iconic creatures for factions are the ones that define the faction
Academy > Titan , Magi , Djinn
Dungeon > Black Dragon , Minotaur
Haven > Champion, Angel
Inferno > Devil, Cerberus
Necropolis > Skeleton, Vampire
Stronghold > Cyclops , Orc (melee)
Sylvan > Hunter (ranged elf) , druid , UNICORN!!!
while i dont mind new creatures , i dont think the iconic creatures should be compromised
Unicorn is iconic for sure, maybe they should be there instead of the deer.
But I think we could consider some "anti-iconic" units, like orc warriors and a djinn together or unicorn and a vampire of the forests together.
A so kind and pure animal like unicorn, together with that treacherous snake... =((
Edit: by "anti-iconic" i meant out of place units.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted September 21, 2014 01:29 PM |
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jhb said:
DarkLord said:
Iconic creatures for factions are the ones that define the faction
Academy > Titan , Magi , Djinn
Dungeon > Black Dragon , Minotaur
Haven > Champion, Angel
Inferno > Devil, Cerberus
Necropolis > Skeleton, Vampire
Stronghold > Cyclops , Orc (melee)
Sylvan > Hunter (ranged elf) , druid , UNICORN!!!
while i dont mind new creatures , i dont think the iconic creatures should be compromised
Unicorn is iconic for sure, maybe they should be there instead of the deer.
But I think we could consider some "anti-iconic" units, like orc warriors and a djinn together or unicorn and a vampire of the forests together.
A so kind and pure animal like unicorn, together with that treacherous snake... =((
Edit: by "anti-iconic" i meant out of place units.
would you be ready to ditch Titans from academy for example if they have other unit that doesnt fit with them?
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 01:31 PM |
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DarkLord said:
jhb said:
DarkLord said:
Iconic creatures for factions are the ones that define the faction
Academy > Titan , Magi , Djinn
Dungeon > Black Dragon , Minotaur
Haven > Champion, Angel
Inferno > Devil, Cerberus
Necropolis > Skeleton, Vampire
Stronghold > Cyclops , Orc (melee)
Sylvan > Hunter (ranged elf) , druid , UNICORN!!!
while i dont mind new creatures , i dont think the iconic creatures should be compromised
Unicorn is iconic for sure, maybe they should be there instead of the deer.
But I think we could consider some "anti-iconic" units, like orc warriors and a djinn together or unicorn and a vampire of the forests together.
A so kind and pure animal like unicorn, together with that treacherous snake... =((
Edit: by "anti-iconic" i meant out of place units.
would you be ready to ditch Titans from academy for example if they have other unit that doesnt fit with them?
If it was a line up with vampires and titans I would probably try another.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted September 21, 2014 01:34 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 13:58, 21 Sep 2014.
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jhb said:
If it was a line up with vampires and titans I would probably try another.
so i guess your vote is Fury
because balance has phoenix and snakes
the other thing is that we dont know much about those rotten snakes, maybe they arent that bad in the end
but i see your point, choosing from less "out of place"
my point is different, as in my opinion i can tolerate the presence of snake in order to keep the iconic creature which gives me feeling that i am actually playing a faction that existed throughout HoMM series, without loosing the legacy of nature faction
so strenght is my vote! i think it gives the best compromise
edit:
@ Jhb
i vote the same way "choosing from less evil"
strenght vote is far from my ideal line-up
But is the best from the options we got in my opinion
@ ChrisD1
i dont think i am giving double standards as
i never stated that blade dancer and deer are bad,
however i find deer uninspiring
as for snake i find it out of place, yes, but same as many other units offered in all vote options
like for example creature that dont belong there for
Strenght > snake (out of place)
Balance > snake (out of place) , phoenix (out of place lore-wise)
Fury > dryad+pixie in one line up (out of place , separately they are fine though) , deer (uninspiring)
so that leaves me with S > F > B
but mind me i am not trying to make a statement, but voicing my personal opinion
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 21, 2014 01:36 PM |
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But in these specific case, the emerald warriors started to "weight" a bit, when I was comparing.
(before the artwork)
I mean to weight against. 
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This thread is pages long: 
