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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 09, 2015 06:03 PM |
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@ Articun
Sorry man I didn't mean to upset you.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted July 09, 2015 06:08 PM |
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Galaad said:
@ Articun
Sorry man I didn't mean to upset you.
Hahahah, it takes more to upset me mate, don't worry. I just didn't wanna seem like i was trying to make my point absolute with the bold and stuff.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 07:07 PM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 19:08, 09 Jul 2015.
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Storm-Giant said:
On the other hand, having access to 9 skills total (aside from racial) and only 5 expert is a severe flaw in the system, which heavily limits gameplay.
ChrisD1 said:
again please do not overreact.
For the love of God, how can you accuse somebody of overreacting when you are the biggest drama queen out there. What a joke
And that's why we have so many classes. It doesn't fix everything but it's smth. I never ever in my experience with heroes(except heroes 4 which I never touched), said "oh shoot I can't learn this I feel so limited by the system!" not even in heroes 6!!!!! I had other issues there,not limits.
All this talk about limits etc is just theory and doomsaying. I'm not the drama queen here -.-
@alcibiades
Yeah ok everyone is going to go for the grandmaster build and theoretically it's limiting not being able to choose GMs from every single ability out there, but on the practical side I don't think it will matter that much, since it's -1 single perk. But yeah having access to GMs from all 10 parts of the wheel would be more challenging and fun to choose where you will excel. As I said the system is not the best,but it's not the worst(heroes 6).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 08:15 PM |
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You kidding? HoMM 6 is gold compared with this.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 09, 2015 08:18 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
You kidding? HoMM 6 is gold compared with this.
Eh, both seem to be on a similar level of despair. Comparing it to the time they are being made.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 08:26 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
Eh, both seem to be on a similar level of despair. Comparing it to the time they are being made.
I have high hopes (or false ones :/ ) that this game, unlike heroes 6, will be supported TotE style and things at the spell department will get better.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 09, 2015 08:29 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
EnergyZ said:
Eh, both seem to be on a similar level of despair. Comparing it to the time they are being made.
I have high hopes (or false ones :/ ) that this game, unlike heroes 6, will be supported TotE style and things at the spell department will get better.
That would be good... if it was actually true. Things lacking:
*7 tier system
*flexible battle system
*alternate upgrades
*more spells
*etc.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 08:31 PM |
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 08:33 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
That would be good... if it was actually true. Things lacking:
*7 tier system
*flexible battle system
*alternate upgrades
*more spells
*etc.
The 7 tier system is back again but with a different name. Practically cores are now more distinct. The core-elite-champion system now is just an easier way saying 1st,2nd tier etc.
We do have a champion alternate upgrade but lets hope we get the same thing we did in TotE.
We don't know if it's true yet
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 09, 2015 08:35 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
EnergyZ said:
That would be good... if it was actually true. Things lacking:
*7 tier system
*flexible battle system
*alternate upgrades
*more spells
*etc.
The 7 tier system is back again but with a different name. Practically cores are now more distinct. The core-elite-champion system now is just an easier way saying 1st,2nd tier etc.
We do have a champion alternate upgrade but lets hope we get the same thing we did in TotE.
We don't know if it's true yet
Eh, I don't see it that way. By some logic, that would be what they say "to balance things out". At least the champion as an alternate is good, but they could be more imaginative than that. Say have upgrade over an existing upgrade.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 09, 2015 08:39 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
You kidding? HoMM 6 is gold compared with this.
never thought I'd agree with that statement in any context, but here we are lol
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 08:47 PM |
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verriker said:
never thought I'd agree with that statement in any context, but here we are lol
-.- come on.. only the fact that mage guilds are back and spells are not skillpoints anymore is a sheer amount of improvement.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 09:02 PM |
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted July 09, 2015 09:18 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
I have high hopes (or false ones :/ ) that this game, unlike heroes 6, will be supported TotE style and things at the spell department will get better.
It might get support like H5 did but that won't be able to fix the number of spells or the structure of skills at all.
Too much is already set in stone with no chance to change them without a complete overhaul. The addition of 2 extra spells for each school would massively mess up the probabilities that you get the spell that you want/need. That can ofcourse be remedied by allowing spell research or copying scrolls into the mageguild but that is already a complete overhaul.
The worst thing is that these problems are still only second behind the whole flanking system that is the worst addition to the series.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 09:42 PM |
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 09, 2015 09:42 PM |
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Well I still think H7 skill system, if we look at the general design rather than the specifics, is a step forward from H6 skill system - what baffles me is that it's only a fairly marginal step, which is quite inexcusable considering both how vocal and how specific we have been in our wishes for precisely the skill system. The only two reasons I can pinpoint for the current situation are equally unsatisfactory: A necessity due to lore constraints (7 magic schools and all that) and a "we know better" attitude from the developers.
We can indeed hope that game becomes better with time - after all, H5 did. I've seen it suggested sometimes that it's unfair to compare H7 vanilla to H5 TotE, which may or may not be true - at one hand, it is natural that game will only reach its full potential in its final incarnation after all expansion packs; on the other hand, they have all the experience from H5 and H6 (for better and, in the latter case, especially for worse) to draw on this time, so they can't really hide behind a lack of experience like they could with H5. No matter what stance one takes, it seems quite clear to me at this point that the skill system will only be a success after a major overhaul - either from developers in an expansion or from fans in a mod.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 09, 2015 09:45 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 21:46, 09 Jul 2015.
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alcibiades said:
on the other hand, they have all the experience from H5 and H6 (for better and, in the latter case, especially for worse) to draw on this time, so they can't really hide behind a lack of experience like they could with H5.
They only worked on H6 so it is probably safe to say that they have the same amount of experience from H5 as they do from H1.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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fuChris
Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
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posted July 09, 2015 10:15 PM |
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Stevie said:
Preserving a healthy ratio between number of spells in existence and number of offered spells in a guild is really not that hard.
It was before when we had fewer schools but ofc that is all in the past. Thanks to the glorious 7 school system there aren't enough spells to balance all tiers of all scools or even just some tiers.
Asha uses all and Asha has already used up all it has.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 11:27 PM |
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Regarding the h7 skill-system; in its core it's just modified h6 skill-system essentially. It has minor and major skills just restructured(which was divide between might and magic), added new layer of GM which would have equally powerful skills in old system. It has essentially the same problems as h6 did, but it feels actually much more limiting because of the available number of skills and their levels. The h7 is a little bit closer to old systems while still being miles away from them(the random system is complete fiasko). During the beta I had already ruled out most heroes as decent heroes given their limits in skills and specialization. Sadly I kinda agree that h6 had better skill-system(and I despised that). Neither offer any real replayability IMO. On the bright side h7 system is still much easier to work into better form while h6 was and still is a complete disaster. I just doubt devs are willing to work on the skill-system so I fear that(among many many things) will fall to modders to fix.
As for flanking system, I still have not grasped fully how it works. At the start of map the bonus for back-stab seemed to be around 140-180%, but it fast got to some 210%. Originally it was said to be minor bonus, but over double damage doesn't really feel minor(what the heck is major to devs???). I think the rise is related to hero atk-stat, but if somebody knows how it precisely works feel free to open up. I did not personally like the system and it's actually much worse than in Heroes Online where they took it from(that would otherwise be surprising, but given how much I feel devs cut corners I'm growing numb on how bad or mediocre so many things are done in h7). Overall the game does have potential if modders take great interest in it, by devs I don't feel it will be much better than h6(the game just gives me this very cheap feel all around because of copying so much from h6, at least when h6 came out it felt like something completely new...) Hopefully h7 will feel much smoother in terms of game-play also compared to the last beta.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 09, 2015 11:48 PM |
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Gryphs said:
alcibiades said:
on the other hand, they have all the experience from H5 and H6 (for better and, in the latter case, especially for worse) to draw on this time, so they can't really hide behind a lack of experience like they could with H5.
They only worked on H6 so it is probably safe to say that they have the same amount of experience from H5 as they do from H1.
Ubi has been involved since H5. They have the experience.
That without taking into account all the ideas you can find in the community, those that had been given some thought process put some of H6-7 systems to shame.
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