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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted March 09, 2004 01:37 AM |
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Thank you, my smartypants friend.... 
Now how about you Americans? Any takers here?
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted March 09, 2004 04:13 PM |
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First of all Peacemaker, Bush's initial plans of tax cuts were made before the 9/11 attacks. After going to war on Terrorism and then against Iraq, the whole concept of balanced budget goes out th window.
Consis. The whole idea of cutting taxes is that it gives the money back into the hands of the people. This encourages people to spend more money and creates growth in the economy. Not to sound mean, but I definately thought this was a basic theory of economics. You cut taxes to encourage growth. Actually Bushes tax cutting plan targeted private small businesses, not the rich. Most small businesses are in a certain tax bracket. These small businesses are what drive the economy and keep a demand for employees. Because there are many employers, there is a greater demand for good employees. These small businesses are the backbone of America. Bushes tax cuts in the past have been initialy criticized calling him someone that targets the rich. To be perfectly honest, the "millionaire" really doesn't pay any taxes, because there are so many loop holes and write-offs in our system. The incredibly rich people hire personal accountants that they pay a couple hundred thousands dollars a year. These accountants do things with their money so they pay minimal taxes. In fact, it's the small businesses that are taxed the most. They cannot afford to hire an accountant, but they make enough money to be heavily taxed. Bushes tax cuts, mainly targeted these small businesses.
The economy already is rebounding.
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Go Red Sox!
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted March 09, 2004 05:16 PM |
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RSF:
So far the total cost of the war in Iraq is approximately $105 billion (and counting rapidly). Now check my math here, but one hundred billion is one tenth of one trillion. Since the national debt is seven trillion, that means the Iraq war debt comprises a little under one seventieth of the total national debt Bush has run up.
(Jeeze, it's even worse than I thought it would be.)
Again, basic math. So no using the war as an excuse.
Also, as a small business person (sole proprietor), I am still one of those people in a 43% tax bracket. That has not changed one cent under Bush. So all Bush's talk about helping the small business community is great in theory. If he would only have done what he said maybe I and others like me wouldn't be so orked off about the whole thing with the national debt.
Also, you seem to contradict yourself. In one breath you say that Bush's tax cuts did not target the wealthy, then in the next breath you admit that the wealthy basically subvert the system by taking advantage of existing "loopholes" that have been there to their benefit all along. Far as I understand it, that also has not changed, since Bush has not lifted a finger to do so.
Now this next comment may be as much an oversimplification as I am suggesting yours were, but it remains my understanding after studying economics for two years that if they completely wiped out the entire current tax system and implemented a ten percent tax plan across the board, with no room for clever maneuvering, we could balance the budget in a couple of years and walk away by the end of this decade with an enormous surplus. No more cuts against colleges, no more cuts against education in general. No more child care cuts (which probably hits the hardest since you are basically making it impossible for every single mother struggling to get/stay off welfare to do so, since those cuts result in child care costs that about equal the entire income from a minimum-wage job.)
In essense, the child care cuts combined with welfare cuts create an ever-growing legion of homeless street folk with children in tow.
Just take a look on every street corner the next time you drive downtown. If you do not have a growing number of people with cardboard signs on practically every corner, an increasing number of them women (frequently with their children there too) then your town is the exception, not the rule.
THAT's what Bush's budgetary inclinations are leading us to.
<EDIT>
In afterthought, I realized I did not include all the costs of the War on Terrorism beyond just the war in Iraq. Those additional costs are as follows from the most recent data I could find:
1. Budget increases for the following agencies and activities in millions of dollars from 2000 to 2004:
a) INS: $249M 2000 to $482M 2004: $233M increase (93%)
b) Customs: $236M 2000 to $462M 2004: $226M increase (96%)
c) Coast Guard: $135M 2000 to $230M 2004: $85M increase (70%)
d) FEMA: $124M 2000 to $176M 2004: $52M increase (41%)
e) Secret Service: $33M 2000 to $38M 2004: $5M increase (15%)
Total agency budget increases 2000-2004 (1. a) through e): $611 million
2. Homeland Security information technologies budget (created 2004): $3.75 billion
3. War on Afghanistan est. total cost: $10.2 billion
Total additional costs of war on terrorism including agency increases, HSIT budget and Afghanistan war (1+2+3): $14.56 billion (about one-eighth the cost of the war on Iraq -- SO FAR).
Total cost of War on Terrorism (including Iraq)so far: $119.56 billion
National debt: $7 trillion and change.
Percentage of national debt attributable to the total cost of War on Terrorism (dropping change on seven trillion): .017 (about one 58th of the total national debt).
So, if you and Mr. Bush can come up with 57 other excuses as good -- and as costly -- as the War on Terrorism, to explain how this...person drug us from the heftiest budget surplus in seventy years to where we are today, maybe I'll let you guys off the hook.
To plagarize three of my favorite old folk singers: WHERE HAS ALL THE MONEY GONE??????
(It's beyond me why anyone would defend this mess that is our national budget based on the data I have seen and heard. But if anyone has more information that I haven't taken into consideration here, please do let me know.)
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted March 10, 2004 09:32 AM |
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It will be interesting to see who gets elected
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted March 10, 2004 10:02 AM |
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I Can Understand
Quote:
In essense, the child care cuts combined with welfare cuts create an ever-growing legion of homeless street folk with children in tow.
I can bear witness that childcare is too high for my wife and I as a middleclass family.
Also, I can understand the welfare cuts. I know of many people who've abused the system. They receive welfare or unemployment and yet have two jobs. I ask what the income is doing that and I'm told 35k-40k/yr...sometimes 50k. It sickens me that people will break the law in that way but what else can we do? I think too many people are taking advantage of the current welfare system and unemployment. I don't think it needs cuts. I think it needs reform. Close the loopholes or do something to stop people from pretending to be jobless.
I did not agree with going to war in the first place. I agree that it has mired us in some stretching circumstances. Our military constantly abroad, getting into foreign deals with other countries leaving us jobless, and then that Haliburton deal really pissed me off. I have one vote and I intend to use it to take this country back from him.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted March 10, 2004 10:15 AM |
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@Consis
You really think that the one vote you have will count? American people should understand that Bush has almost ruined the US economy, and that can be seen from here, in Europe, at the stock market. While, before Bush came to power, the euro/dollar parity was really small, about 1.07-1.14 if i remember well, it has reached an unbelieveble level of 1.38 (?!) and still growing. The problem is: If bush gets realected before this gets to 1.45, it will all be the same for a very small period of time, then the euro goes puff again, with all the troubles here in Europe. If Bush gets reelected after the parity reaches 1.45 or more, well... you get my point. If he doesn't become president again, american economy has a really big chance to get back to normal. You won't belive how the image of a man (in this case the US president) can influence the stock market.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted March 10, 2004 10:42 AM |
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Does One Vote Count?
Yes, I do. In this country we believe in democracy. I'm not going to give you a lecture on democracy but I will tell you what it means to me.
My vote is all that I believe. If I am one man in a nation of people then together all of our single votes form sovereignty. I may only be one person with one vote but I believe in my vote. I have the power to change this country just as all the other citizens do. If we each sit around and tell ourselves there is nothing we can do then nothing will happen. Change will not come if you wait for it. Change will only come if you get up and make yourself heard for all the world to hear. I believe that all people have a voice and that all people have the right to their own destiny. It is not in me to withdraw that voice and walk about in silence. Living in fear is not my idea of living. It's a good world but it needs work yet. With everyone helping, we can make a difference but it starts within us all with each vote and each voice.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted March 10, 2004 11:07 AM |
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@Consis
That is a very optimistic point of view. If more people in my country would think like that, maybe they could make a difference. But there is the problem of mentality here in the East, where everyone (well, almost everyone) thinks that things cannot get any worst. And of course they do. But they just can't see it.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted April 13, 2004 05:43 PM |
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Quote:
RICE: I remember very well that the president was aware that there were issues inside the United States. He talked to people about this. But I don't remember the al-Qaida cells as being something that we were told we needed to do something about.
BEN-VENISTE: Isn't it a fact, Dr. Rice, that the August 6th PDB warned against possible attacks in this country? And I ask you whether you recall the title of that PDB?
RICE: I believe the title was, Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.
Yup, that memo certainly didn't say anything about al-Qaida.
Sort of sums it up about the Bush administration.
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Drive by posting.
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Athimus_Phaeni
Famous Hero
Final Fantasy Fan
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posted April 15, 2004 04:24 PM |
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Found this link in a page:
http://www.blackstarsblog.com/bushin41point2.htm
Maybe the Anti-Bush ones will like it.
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ook
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But I won't be
Burned by the reflection
Of the fire in your eyes
As you're starying at the sun
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 10, 2004 12:57 AM |
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Statistics
1 Connecticut 113 Gore
2 Massachusetts 111 Gore
3 New Jersey 111 Gore
4 New York 109 Gore
5 Rhode Island 107 Gore
6 Hawaii 106 Gore
7 Maryland 105 Gore
8 New Hampshire 105 Bush
9 Illinois 104 Gore
10 Delaware 103 Gore
11 Minnesota 102 Gore
12 Vermont 102 Gore
13 Washington 102 Gore
14 California 101 Gore
15 Pennsylvania 101 Gore
16 Maine 100 Gore
17 Virginia 100 Bush
18 Wisconsin 100 Gore
19 Colorado 99 Bush
20 Iowa 99 Gore
21 Michigan 99 Gore
22 Nevada 99 Bush
23 Ohio 99 Bush
24 Oregon 99 Gore
25 Alaska 98 Bush
26 Florida 98 Gore
27 Missouri 98 Bush
28 Kansas 96 Bush
29 Nebraska 95 Bush
30 Arizona 94 Bush
31 Indiana 94 Bush
32 Tennessee 94 Bush
33 North Carolina 93 Bush
34 West Virginia 93 Bush
35 Arkansas 92 Bush
36 Georgia 92 Bush
37 Kentucky 92 Bush
38 New Mexico 92 Gore
39 North Dakota 92 Bush
40 Texas 92 Bush
41 Alabama 90 Bush
42 Louisiana 90 Bush
43 Montana 90 Bush
44 Oklahoma 90 Bush
45 South Dakota 90 Bush
46 South Carolina 89 Bush
47 Wyoming 89 Bush
48 Idaho 87 Bush
49 Utah 87 Bush
50 Mississippi 85 Bush
These are the avarage intelligence coeficients for the American states, and the results of the polls conducted there. The results speak for themselves. Intelligence is directly proportional to chances of Bush not getting support. lol
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 10, 2004 01:26 AM |
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ill make a sense post.
There are reasons bush should and should not be re-elected.
I stand on not democratic, but the side that we need a new president. At the very same time, he SHOULD be reelected because the way this political mainstream works by putting a few canidates who will be in soul power of the system which governs us infront of millions of people, the way the political mainstream works is there may not a better option right now
(not soul power, I am disreguarding the powers of the other people we put in power like congress)
another part of this reason, is I'm not sure we can afford drstic policy changs in the middle of not a war, but a residential existance in the home lands of our enemies.
Honestly, theres no logical system that we are voting on, nor would that be possible due to the fact that things change rapidly. Sometimes plans have to change.
One thing i will say under lined, that I'm questioning life and the power of men, is the whole time between usama and bush, a very important statement from usama was made.
something very close and along the lines of
americans are foolish so we are going to kill them
(the reason I say thats a question, is that it could have had a response awnser)
Did anyone ask him what he wants? What he thinks we are foolish about? That may sound like negotiating with enemy but it isnt. If he made demands like "go away" it wouldn't work because he would probably attack anyways. We have to beable to put our big wigs, and their big wigs (you know, the people who have relative control over the world of man and physical structure and bioligical life + animals)
They need to beable to negotiate a true peace.
Instead, Usamas hiding, and Bush nor the administration of democrats or republicans, nor the weak voice of but 1 of millions of peoples, have sent out a message that we want to know what we are foolish about and we want to negotiate peace.
So in awnser to the question, should bush be re-elected? Unfortunatly in this portion of the world that man kind divides by this and that, there is no better awnser by (as consis said) our 1 vote. Our 1 vote goes to somethin which wont be as peace sufficient as possible.
Remember this and mark my words if I die.
One thing not possible without peace is peace.
For America to truly get what it imediatly strives for (peace, homeland security, political adaption and a working forigne policy) is not simple as putting the guns away. It's as simple as adopting hands accross the world under no nation, under no circumstance of power or rule.. But peace and the beggining of an understanding that all men are equal, and we want this world to be a better place NOW and in the future.
I say, since theres no best option available with my vote, vote for bush unless someone with comon sense comes into play. Someone who dosnt belive in modern ways, and someone who belives in the ultimate change being possible. That change, which all of you may disreguard as childish dreams, is showing the world that we should have a **F*ing care about ecosystems, humanity, progress, personal belifes (in many cases) among other things. One time someone said this is a utopia. Haha.. You really think if a utopian spoke as president that people would disreguard and say horendous things? There couldn't be much said about someone who tried  If someone tried, they would be like, sort of evil 
No bush shouldnt be re-elected. but since the way things are, there may be no better choice available to our votes.
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What are you up to
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 10, 2004 04:37 AM |
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Svarog, you should really post the populations of the states when you pull a stunt like that.
The east and west coasts are mostly liberal, the center is mostly conservative. The east and west coasts have more people than the center states, on average. "One bad apple spoils the bunch" The states with less people, the average is different. The average is lowered farther in less populated states than the highly populated states.
Also, I know of many Mental Institution type places in Nebraska. If those people are added into that average, it lowers the average quite a bit, am I right?
Of course this is assuming you didn't make up these statistics. Where did you get these? A link would be nice.
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2004 02:04 PM |
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did we mention Kyoto protocol already?
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Running may not add years to your life, but it will add life to your years
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted May 10, 2004 02:20 PM |
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Hey Wolfman, you can't discredit this chart only because states have different populations. That's why it says avarage IQ. (Geez, havent you studied maths?!  )
Here's the link:http://americanassembler.com/features/iq_state_averages.htm
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 10, 2004 10:48 PM |
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And if you studied math, you woulld know that an average can be pushed down quite a way by a few "bad apples"
Plus in the first sentance it says:
"Some folks have no sense of humor."
I guess that applies to me
But it goes on to say:
"We made it pretty clear that, even if these stats are for real, which, as we stated in English, we have no evidence that they are, we think this chart is a joke. You can't draw any inference statistically from a correlation between IQ, a suspect measurement in the first place, and electoral votes."
I guess you didn't think you needed to post that, after all it kind of ruins your point.
"The source of this data is not "Wealth of Nations" as it had been attributed to us. A reader writes in and tells us he has the book (Sorry to hear that Mike) and the state IQ's aren't in it. This is a huge relief as the book is one of those race/IQ books. So we're still trying to track down the source for the IQ scores. As this is all a bit of good fun we aren't too concerned with the source. We know that Republicans are mentally impaired. If they weren't, that would just make them greedy."
And apparently, this is a rediculous site that really has no meaning. You really should have posted more information about the chart, considering it appears to be completely made up.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 10, 2004 11:31 PM |
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It further goes on to say:
Seriously: Republicans misinformed, not stupid
The truth is, we don't believe most people are Republicans because they are stupid, we believe they're Republicans because they are misinformed.
As a real study with a real source points out, "among those who believe that Iraq had WMD, 74% said they would vote for Bush.
Bush's support is directly proportional to public misperceptions. That's not funny.
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khayman
Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
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posted May 10, 2004 11:33 PM |
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Tax Cuts 101
I received an email a few months back regarding the proposed tax cuts from the Bush administration. Basically, the email breaks things down so in terms that we 'less educated folk' can understand. Although it makes the tax cut proposal seems very simplistic, I am sure that there are some other details and aspects that are not addressed here. Nonetheless, for those of you who did not receive the email, I am posting it here. Enjoy.
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Sometimes Politicians can exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!", and it is just accepted to be fact. But what does that really mean? Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, we hope the following will help.
Tax Cuts - A Simple Lesson In Economics
This is how the cookie crumbles. Please read it carefully.
Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh $7.
The eighth $12.
The ninth $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."
So, now dinner for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.
So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?
The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being 'PAID' to eat their meal.
So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.
David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Distinguished Professor of Economics
536 Brooks Hall
University of Georgia
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So, basically, everyone can draw an argument for or against tax cuts, but atleast after reading this, I have a somewhat better understanding of the reasoning behind those arguments.
Love, Peace, and Happiness!
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 10, 2004 11:45 PM |
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I forgot exact stats, but financialy the top 5% pay more all together than the lower 50%
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What are you up to
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 11, 2004 01:43 PM |
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Of course he had WMDs! What do you think he killed his people with, a slingshot?
He had them, he used them, and there was a very good chance he still had them. The entire world knew it, but only a few were willing to do something about it. Simple as that.
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