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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Strongest Town & Weakest Town in HOMM3
Thread: Strongest Town & Weakest Town in HOMM3 This thread is 34 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 30 31 32 33 34 · «PREV / NEXT»
Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 08:28 PM
Edited by Otuken at 20:28, 14 Sep 2018.

Considering price of devils and their dwellings yes I'd say they are the worst 7.th level creatures. They need cost reduction 4500 gold is way too much for a creature that have 200 HP with no magic immunity.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2018 08:33 PM
Edited by Otuken at 20:34, 14 Sep 2018.

Ben80 said:
Otuken said:

Inferno produces one of the weakest army per week with high prices. Their unupgraded army is ok but they cannot match with other towns with upgraded versions.


During the first time when I was beginner in Heroes 3 I liked to test frontal battles between 2-3 week growth armies of different fractions. However in real game battles with neutrals have meaning, and usually they are battles when you have only several level creatures, not all 7.
The higher skill of gamer the more effectively he can use high speed of creatures. Inferno have one of most speedy armies.

Rough rating of fractions by creatures speed:

1. Inferno
2. Dungeon
3. Castle
4-7. Rampart,Stronghold,Tower,Conflux
8. Necropolis
9. Fortress

P.S. I'd rather say "mobility", not "speed"


Yes it is true but on the other hand aren't imps, pit lords and devils overpriced. Just compare imps with goblins. Goblins are better units but imps are more expensive. I have really no idea why imps are more expensive than master gremlins or goblins.
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 08:36 PM

yawn... this guy is even more persisten than I am

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 14, 2018 08:43 PM

monere said:
I never play random heroes cause I'm not good enough to win with crap heroes, and if I don't get a hero that I like I freak out and rage unplug the computer, so give me a break with all this random crap!


Later on you play as us. Anxiety certainly when you see a jerk skills, now I play Myth and Legend (MoD) in WoG, my skills are navigation, leadership, wisdom, learning, resistance, artillery, logistics, earth, and then secret skill is pathfinding. The majority hates this skill. A minority is always right but no presence in here.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 08:53 PM

Ghost said:
monere said:
I never play random heroes cause I'm not good enough to win with crap heroes, and if I don't get a hero that I like I freak out and rage unplug the computer, so give me a break with all this random crap!


Later on you play as us. Anxiety certainly when you see a jerk skills, now I play Myth and Legend (MoD) in WoG, my skills are navigation, leadership, wisdom, learning, resistance, artillery, logistics, earth, and then secret skill is pathfinding. The majority hates this skill. A minority is always right but no presence in here.


No, I won't, cause I don't intend to become pro at this game and rage even more when I lose

Also, in WoG there are no crappy skills, which is why I always get 20+ skills on my hero. All of them are useful... well, not so much against the dumb AI, but against a human they would definitely be useful

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Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted September 14, 2018 08:56 PM
Edited by Ben80 at 21:00, 14 Sep 2018.

Otuken said:

Yes it is true but on the other hand aren't imps, pit lords and devils overpriced. Just compare imps with goblins. Goblins are better units but imps are more expensive. I have really no idea why imps are more expensive than master gremlins or goblins.


Each fraction have advantageous and shortcomings.
For Stronghold creatures are generally cheap, for Inferno - overpriced.

Another rating, related to speed of creatures. Each army need 1-2 very speedy creaturew for battles with neutrals, unessentially strong creatures (though it may be strong sometimes). Above all this creature should be very speedy, available by price and generally available.

Rating:
1-4. Inferno, Fortress, Tower, Conflux.
5-6. Rampart, Dungeon.
7-9. Castle, Stronghold, Necropolis.

Two ratings are different. However in both Inferno and Dungeon are good, Necropolis is bad.

P.S. Again, I should say "mobile" instead of "speedy" ))

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MarloStanfield
MarloStanfield

Tavern Dweller
posted September 14, 2018 11:00 PM

Otuken said:
Considering price of devils and their dwellings yes I'd say they are the worst 7.th level creatures. They need cost reduction 4500 gold is way too much for a creature that have 200 HP with no magic immunity.


Your messages about "weak" devils are so ridiculous and funny that I even made a video for you to demonstrate the opposite. Archdevils are tactically the STRONGEST units in this game. 17 speed, 1 hex, no retaliation. And sometimes 200 hp is by far better than 300 hp. In case when you need to resurrect full stack, for example. You can take 73 azure dragons instead of devils in this fight and you will obviously lose. The usefulness of familiars is a bonus.

https://youtu.be/Y82GkHZlHiE


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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 11:14 PM
Edited by monere at 23:32, 14 Sep 2018.

MarloStanfield said:
Otuken said:
Considering price of devils and their dwellings yes I'd say they are the worst 7.th level creatures. They need cost reduction 4500 gold is way too much for a creature that have 200 HP with no magic immunity.


Your messages about "weak" devils are so ridiculous and funny that I even made a video for you to demonstrate the opposite. Archdevils are tactically the STRONGEST units in this game. 17 speed, 1 hex, no retaliation. And sometimes 200 hp is by far better than 300 hp. In case when you need to resurrect full stack, for example. You can take 73 azure dragons instead of devils in this fight and you will obviously lose. The usefulness of familiars is a bonus.

https://youtu.be/Y82GkHZlHiE





this is only possible against the AI. A human would have killed you a trillion times by the end of the 2nd turn

EDIT: At 13:20 you have wasted Frenzy for killing the 37 remaining enchanters. I think you would have killed them anyway with 70 ADs, no?

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MarloStanfield
MarloStanfield

Tavern Dweller
posted September 14, 2018 11:20 PM

monere said:
MarloStanfield said:
Otuken said:
Considering price of devils and their dwellings yes I'd say they are the worst 7.th level creatures. They need cost reduction 4500 gold is way too much for a creature that have 200 HP with no magic immunity.


Your messages about "weak" devils are so ridiculous and funny that I even made a video for you to demonstrate the opposite. Archdevils are tactically the STRONGEST units in this game. 17 speed, 1 hex, no retaliation. And sometimes 200 hp is by far better than 300 hp. In case when you need to resurrect full stack, for example. You can take 73 azure dragons instead of devils in this fight and you will obviously lose. The usefulness of familiars is a bonus.

https://youtu.be/Y82GkHZlHiE





this is only possible against the AI. A human would have killed you a trillion times by the end of the 2nd turn

I haven't noticed that you talk here only about multiplayer. And in pvp games archdevils are also one of the strongest 7 lvl units because of high stats, speed and no retaliation.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 11:32 PM

Famtastic or not, it's still the AI, which is bad in Heroes 3. Annoying (because it harrasses you all the time), but still bad when you decide to deal with it.

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MarloStanfield
MarloStanfield

Tavern Dweller
posted September 14, 2018 11:34 PM

monere said:
EDIT: At 13:20 you have wasted Frenzy for killing the 37 remaining enchanters. I think you would have killed them anyway with 70 ADs, no?

No, I couldn't. The stats advantage of the enemy hero is crazy.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 11:44 PM
Edited by monere at 23:46, 14 Sep 2018.

MarloStanfield said:
monere said:
EDIT: At 13:20 you have wasted Frenzy for killing the 37 remaining enchanters. I think you would have killed them anyway with 70 ADs, no?

No, I couldn't. The stats advantage of the enemy hero is crazy.


yeah, I figured that out when I've seen 70 ADs unable to kill 28 Silver Pegasi without Frenzy on, which reminds me... why did you let 10 Silver Pegasi alive for so long? They made your spellcasting more expensive by not finishing them off.

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MarloStanfield
MarloStanfield

Tavern Dweller
posted September 14, 2018 11:52 PM

monere said:
MarloStanfield said:
monere said:
EDIT: At 13:20 you have wasted Frenzy for killing the 37 remaining enchanters. I think you would have killed them anyway with 70 ADs, no?

No, I couldn't. The stats advantage of the enemy hero is crazy.


yeah, I figured that out when I've seen 70 ADs unable to kill 28 Silver Pegasi without Frenzy on, which reminds me... why did you let 10 Silver Pegasi alive for so long? They made your spellcasting more expensive by not finishing them off.

That pegasi moment is not of great importance. Dead or alive, their +2 enemy mana waste ability always works.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 11:55 PM
Edited by monere at 23:56, 14 Sep 2018.

MarloStanfield said:
That pegasi moment is not of great importance. Dead or alive, their +2 enemy mana waste ability always works.


oh, I didn't know that, and not because I'm not playing against humans, but because I don't care about mastering the game

Also, I think the AI is programmed to suffer no casualties above everything else, otherwise I can't explain why it hasn't hit you at all. It's just stood there taking in all of your hits. If that is not bad AI I don't know what it is...

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MarloStanfield
MarloStanfield

Tavern Dweller
posted September 15, 2018 12:08 AM

monere said:
MarloStanfield said:
That pegasi moment is not of great importance. Dead or alive, their +2 enemy mana waste ability always works.


oh, I didn't know that, and not because I'm not playing against humans, but because I don't care about mastering the game

Also, I think the AI is programmed to suffer no casualties above everything else, otherwise I can't explain why it hasn't hit you at all. It's just stood there taking in all of your hits. If that is not bad AI I don't know what it is...

It's an obscure peculiarity of siege battles. Enemy hero has implosion and feels stronger. We face him without ranged units (or with small amount) he won't leave the castle until moment we become stronger than he is. As you have seen air elementals start attacking in the end of the video.

Another interesting moment AI doesn't leave his town positions when castle walls 2 and 4 are destroyed (top-down numeration).

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 15, 2018 12:27 AM

MarloStanfield said:
It's an obscure peculiarity of siege battles. Enemy hero has implosion and feels stronger. We face him without ranged units (or with small amount) he won't leave the castle until moment we become stronger than he is. As you have seen air elementals start attacking in the end of the video.

Another interesting moment AI doesn't leave his town positions when castle walls 2 and 4 are destroyed (top-down numeration).


Who the snow even finds out these things?? People have too much time on their hands, I swear


Quote:
Have you heard the saying all solutions are simple to those who knows them?


Yeah, yeah, whatever... only developers know these ultra obscure game mechanics... and maybe their friends cause if you're creating a game you do share these "cheats" with your friends, or else they stop becoming your friends


Quote:
This game has many years behind it, yet I think almost every year I keep seeing things I never thought possible, and I am hardly looking.



I don't. But I don't need to, either, cause the mechanics already put in place - especially if we're talking about WoG, which is what I've been playing for the last decade - are good and complex enough to keep a newbie like me busy for even longer than that

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 15, 2018 12:38 AM

MarloStanfield said:
Otuken said:
Considering price of devils and their dwellings yes I'd say they are the worst 7.th level creatures. They need cost reduction 4500 gold is way too much for a creature that have 200 HP with no magic immunity.


Your messages about "weak" devils are so ridiculous and funny that I even made a video for you to demonstrate the opposite. Archdevils are tactically the STRONGEST units in this game. 17 speed, 1 hex, no retaliation. And sometimes 200 hp is by far better than 300 hp. In case when you need to resurrect full stack, for example. You can take 73 azure dragons instead of devils in this fight and you will obviously lose. The usefulness of familiars is a bonus.

https://youtu.be/Y82GkHZlHiE




it is exactly what I have been trying to explain. With unlimited mana and some tricks every creature can be awesome against AI. But none of them works against human player. There is only one good thing about devils, at least their dwellings do not require mage guild lvl 2-3. I think better to not compare devils separately for better analys since they are just one of the creatures of Inferno. Archagels and Titans are already better than Archdevils  but beyond that plenty of cheap behemots and hydras will always deal more damage and they will always last longer. Plenty of Ghost Dragons and Phoenixies (in SoD) will remain more cost effecient.

For example Hydra which considered one of the worst lvl 7 creature but with teleport spell, it become one of the best 7.th level creature. And Hydras do not require plenty of resorce and magics unlike devils for becoming shine plus they have Tazar which is one of the best hero in game but inferno also lack of decent hero.

Behemoths are also very easily recruitable due to cheap price and low dwelling cost and it makes them better 7.th level units than devils. They become much more effective with barbarians.

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Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted September 15, 2018 03:46 PM

I also like special ability of Ghost Dragons. However, if we talk about serious battles - do you know that Resistance sec. skill and corresponding artifacts works against most of creature spec. abilities ? Possibly, HotA team forgot this fact (they called Resistance "skill of one battle", bearing in mind some specific tournament conditions), but I remember.

I'm not fun of AD. It is convinient to resurrect AD by Resurrection or Sacrifice, but it is not always there is such opportunity in serious battles... One usually have to fear AD will not be killed soon.
However Devil rightly have highest AI value among non-upgraded 7th level creatures. It is very useful creature. Though, against strong wizards of human player, again one should fear Devil will not be killed soon...

Concerning Behemoths and Hydras - yes, they are good and cheap, but they do not fly, have low attack and defense parameters, so stack of such creatures much weaker than stack of top 7th level creatures (T, AA, AD, Dragons). Behemoths are specific, they strong directly against top 7, but not so efficient against other creatures, middle and low level.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted September 15, 2018 04:52 PM

Ben80 said:
I'm not fun of AD. ... One usually have to fear AD will not be killed soon.

You already got that the trick is to wait, hit in the end of the turn, retreat to a safe area, wait and hit again in the third round, right?
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Ben80
Ben80


Adventuring Hero
posted September 15, 2018 06:02 PM

bloodsucker said:
Ben80 said:
I'm not fun of AD. ... One usually have to fear AD will not be killed soon.

You already got that the trick is to wait, hit in the end of the turn, retreat to a safe area, wait and hit again in the third round, right?


Problem is that serious battle have almost no safe area...

Otuken, surely AD one of the top 7th level creatures. Probably he is not  equal 4500 gold, but surely equal 3800-4200 gold. Inferno creatures overpriced a bit, you are correct. However if there is opportunity to get strong stack then price is minor factor, is not it ?

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