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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Advanced English Lesson - Please help!
Thread: Advanced English Lesson - Please help! This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · NEXT»
angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 08, 2006 02:03 PM
Edited by angelito at 14:55, 08 Aug 2006.

Advanced English Lesson - Please help!

Dear "native" english speakers...

I often do have some questions refering to
- specific words in english
- specific sayings
- different meanings of 1 word
- pronounciations
- when to use which formulation
- etc...

I would like to use this thread as some kind of "helping thread" refering to the english language. Every other non native is also welcomed to post his questions here. Would be nice if any of you natives could help me (us) to get more into your language.

Btw...some of my examples may sound funny / strange, but i won't  explain the need of it every time, coz that would lead too far off topic.

Here are my first questions:

1. What's the difference between "How old are you?" and "What's your age?" Perhaps u use one of them refering to friends / people your age, and the other for "foreigners"?

2. What's the difference between "monkey" and "ape"?

3. In german, we don't have a word describing the opposit of "thirsty"
So if i don't know a german word for it, i can't look up the translation in the dictionary of course..
Does there exist an english word for this?

4. I often have problems when to write a word starting with capital letter, coz in english u mainly write without capital letters (not refering to the start fo a sentence of course).
Does there exist a rule for that?

5. In american english, u say "gas" instead of "petrol" (british english). But how do u call "real" gas (like CO for example)?

6. Is this a correct english sentence: "You are too young too!" or do u rather say: "You are too young also!" ?


That's all for now...to be continued....
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mr_niceguy
mr_niceguy


Famous Hero
of power
posted August 08, 2006 02:38 PM
Edited by mr_niceguy at 14:51, 08 Aug 2006.

Quote:
1. What's the difference between "How old are you?" and "What's your age?" Perhaps u use one of them refering to friends / people your age, and the other for "foreigners"?

2. What's the difference between "monkey" and "ape"?

3. In german, we don't have a word describing the opposit of "thirsty"
So if i don't know a german word for it, i can't look up the translation in the dictionary of course..
Does there exist an english word for this?

4. I often have problems when to write a word starting with capital letter, coz in english u mainly write without capital letters (not refering to the start fo a sentence of course).
Does there exist a rule for that?

5. In american english, u say "gas" instead of "petrol" (british english). But how do u call "real" gas (like CO for example)?

6. Is this a correct english sentence: "You are too young too!" or do u rather say: "You are too young also!" ?

1) Whats your age is more of an interveiw question and not used alot, how old are you is more commonly used, but they both mean the same thing

2)They are two different species, I cant explain the difference too well but apes are generally bigger
edit:monkeys and apes

3)Hydrated, however many people just say "not thirsty"

4)Proper nouns start with capitals, eg. names, places
and when you use the word "I"

5) dunno I'm not American, but I think in America they refer to petrol as "gasoline" and refer to gas as gas

6)You are too young "aswell"
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Gandalfs_Girl
Gandalfs_Girl


Known Hero
Champion Ice Cream Eater
posted August 08, 2006 02:42 PM

yeah what he said
good thread idea tho angel, what a helper yu are =D
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 08, 2006 03:27 PM
Edited by angelito at 15:28, 08 Aug 2006.

Many thanks to Mr_Niceguy (and to GG of course..), your reply helped me alot. Especially the hint with the capital "I" was new to me (or I just forgot it over the years...). Will try to follow that rule from now on..

Some more questions:

1. What's the difference (or when to use which form) of: "...because of.." and "...due to..."?

2. There is a movie called "Brother Where Art Thou?". Is this some kind of "lyric" language? Does it have the same meaning as "Brother where are you?"?

3. An english guy in Gamespy (Durell) once corrected my "until now" into "as of yet", which is a phrase i've never heard before. Is this "as of yet" that common, and my "until now" nonsense? Or can u use both?

4. I've heard / read a saying, which I couldn't find a good translation for "as of yet" () or at least an explanation:
to be as crafty as a cartload of monkeys
Any help?

5. I often see americans (or bristish) using numbers in words instead of letters (n00b, l33t, b4...etc...). I heard there does exist a name for that kind of writing. Anyone knows?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 08, 2006 04:49 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 16:51, 08 Aug 2006.

Quote:
1. What's the difference (or when to use which form) of: "...because of.." and "...due to..."?


There really isn't one. "...because of..." is used more often, though.

Quote:
2. There is a movie called "Brother Where Art Thou?". Is this some kind of "lyric" language? Does it have the same meaning as "Brother where are you?"?


It is supposed to be like Early Modern English, like that of Shakespeare. And, yes, it does mean the same thing.

Quote:
3. An english guy in Gamespy (Durell) once corrected my "until now" into "as of yet", which is a phrase i've never heard before. Is this "as of yet" that common, and my "until now" nonsense? Or can u use both?


You can use both.

Quote:
4. I've heard / read a saying, which I couldn't find a good translation for "as of yet" () or at least an explanation:
to be as crafty as a cartload of monkeys
Any help?


Um... I've never heard this one. I guess it means the same thing as to be very crafty (sly)

Quote:
5. I often see americans (or bristish) using numbers in words instead of letters (n00b, l33t, b4...etc...). I heard there does exist a name for that kind of writing. Anyone knows?


The name is 1337 (also known as 1EET, or LEE7, or L33T, or LEET, or Elite). It's only used on the internet and by people who are 734 4AX0R5 (TEH HAXORS (idiots)).
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2XtremeToTake
2XtremeToTake


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 08, 2006 07:23 PM

Quote:
Dear "native" english speakers...

I often do have some questions refering to
- specific words in english
- specific sayings
- different meanings of 1 word
- pronounciations
- when to use which formulation
- etc...

I would like to use this thread as some kind of "helping thread" refering to the english language. Every other non native is also welcomed to post his questions here. Would be nice if any of you natives could help me (us) to get more into your language.

Btw...some of my examples may sound funny / strange, but i won't  explain the need of it every time, coz that would lead too far off topic.

Here are my first questions:

1. What's the difference between "How old are you?" and "What's your age?" Perhaps u use one of them refering to friends / people your age, and the other for "foreigners"? They mean the same, just "What's your age?" sounds ridiculous, therefore "How old are you?" is much more commonly used

2. What's the difference between "monkey" and "ape"? A Monkey refers to a small primate, such as a Chimpanzee or such, while Ape refers to the big ones, like Gorillas and such

3. In german, we don't have a word describing the opposit of "thirsty"
So if i don't know a german word for it, i can't look up the translation in the dictionary of course..
Does there exist an english word for this? Not thirsty

4. I often have problems when to write a word starting with capital letter, coz in english u mainly write without capital letters (not refering to the start fo a sentence of course).
Does there exist a rule for that? PRoper nouns, such as someones name "My name is Jonathan" a specific place "Lets go to Germany" etc

5. In american english, u say "gas" instead of "petrol" (british english). But how do u call "real" gas (like CO for example)? we still call it gas

6. Is this a correct english sentence: "You are too young too!" or do u rather say: "You are too young also!" ? The correct way to say it is "You are young as well" but Its more commonly said "You're too young too" with the contraction being used instead of the full pronounciation.


That's all for now...to be continued....

____________
I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.

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2XtremeToTake
2XtremeToTake


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 08, 2006 07:31 PM

Quote:
Many thanks to Mr_Niceguy (and to GG of course..), your reply helped me alot. Especially the hint with the capital "I" was new to me (or I just forgot it over the years...). Will try to follow that rule from now on..

Some more questions:

1. What's the difference (or when to use which form) of: "...because of.." and "...due to..."? Im not sure on this one

2. There is a movie called "Brother Where Art Thou?". Is this some kind of "lyric" language? Does it have the same meaning as "Brother where are you?"? Sort of old english, see Shakespheres plays of Romeo and Juliet

3. An english guy in Gamespy (Durell) once corrected my "until now" into "as of yet", which is a phrase i've never heard before. Is this "as of yet" that common, and my "until now" nonsense? Or can u use both? I've never heard "as of yet"

4. I've heard / read a saying, which I couldn't find a good translation for "as of yet" () or at least an explanation:
to be as crafty as a cartload of monkeys
Any help? never heard thiso ne

5. I often see americans (or bristish) using numbers in words instead of letters (n00b, l33t, b4...etc...). I heard there does exist a name for that kind of writing. Anyone knows? leetspeak is the unofficial term of given to it..Its mainly a computer language and thats all

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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.

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russ
russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted August 08, 2006 07:59 PM
Edited by russ at 20:05, 08 Aug 2006.

Quote:
1. What's the difference (or when to use which form) of: "...because of.." and "...due to..."?
I think "due to" is a bit more official. I think "as of yet" is more official too, since you'll rarely (if ever) hear someone say it here.

Also, like 2extreme said, in North America it is called "gas", which is exactly the same as the actual gas. I suppose it is pretty easy to figure out the difference based on the sentence. *****ing like "OMG!!! the gas is too expensive!!!" is different from "I had gas, so I didn't go to the party" (come to think of it - even though this does refer to the actual gas, I guess it yet another meaning of the word "gas" ).

Btw, in case you didn't know, English language originated from German. So, it should be easy for you

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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted August 08, 2006 08:45 PM
Edited by friendofgunnar at 20:47, 08 Aug 2006.

Quote:
Btw, in case you didn't know, English language originated from German. So, it should be easy for you


That's part of the story.  The truth is a lot more complex and also more interesting.

The angles were one of the original tribes that expanded out of Northeastern Europe 2500 hundred years ago along with the Jutes, the Franks, The Goths, The Visigoths, Ostrogoths etc...  At this point in time the language was similar enough to the other Germans that they could understand each other somewhat. (similar to the situation nowadays in the scandinavian countries)

The Angles moved across Europe until they crossed the channel and took a large chunk of the British Isles from the Celts.  The Saxons, who were culturally similar were also colonizing the British Isles at the same time.

During the Norman Invasion however (1066) the Normans conquered the Angles and imposed on them the French language (which is itself a Latin derivation).  Here's the interesting part.  All of the simple household words of the "folk" remained German, however all of the words that can associated with higher civilation came from the French.   - for example anything having to do with commerce and law.  The final result was the English language was a bastardization of both French (Latin) and Germanic.  About two thirds of the words in the English language are derived from French while in commen daily usage the ratio is more like 50/50.

This is why an English speaker can read Spanish and recognize a lot of the longer words, and read German and recognize a lot of the shorter words.



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Gandalfs_Girl
Gandalfs_Girl


Known Hero
Champion Ice Cream Eater
posted August 08, 2006 11:19 PM
Edited by Gandalfs_Girl at 02:32, 09 Aug 2006.

i know yu hav the answers already just wanted to post em myself too lol.

Quote:
1. What's the difference (or when to use which form) of: "...because of.." and "...due to..."?

2. There is a movie called "Brother Where Art Thou?". Is this some kind of "lyric" language? Does it have the same meaning as "Brother where are you?"?

3. An english guy in Gamespy (Durell) once corrected my "until now" into "as of yet", which is a phrase i've never heard before. Is this "as of yet" that common, and my "until now" nonsense? Or can u use both?

4. I've heard / read a saying, which I couldn't find a good translation for "as of yet" () or at least an explanation:
to be as crafty as a cartload of monkeys
Any help?

5. I often see americans (or bristish) using numbers in words instead of letters (n00b, l33t, b4...etc...). I heard there does exist a name for that kind of writing. Anyone knows?



1. both the same, i think really its where yu are from or how yu were brought up to say it.

2. old english language from elizabethan or victorian times, whenever it was.  yeah it does mean brother where are you.

3. you can use both, i personally use until now =)

4. hmmm i would say "as of yet" in a sentance wen sayin something like...   "we are trying to organise a meeting for HC people to get together but havent found a venue as of yet"  meaning like at the moment, or up until this time kinda thing.

5. when i use b4 and stuff it is text speak for me, wen im using my mobile fone to text sum1 i shorten letters, like evry1 else, also evry1(everyone)/l8ly(lately)/ne1(anyone)
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted August 09, 2006 01:46 AM
Edited by Khaelo at 01:56, 09 Aug 2006.

Quote:
4. I've heard / read a saying, which I couldn't find a good translation for "as of yet" () or at least an explanation:
to be as crafty as a cartload of monkeys
Any help?

This is new to me.  I checked with my mom, who's an English teacher, and it wasn't familiar to her, either.  There is an English saying, "more fun than a barrel of monkeys."  "Crafty" is usually a fox; monkeys are "crazy," "silly," "fun," or something like that.  Maybe you've found a local saying from somewhere?  Or someone translated a saying from their native language into English?

Somewhat OT:  The woman (Russian) who sat next to me at work ran across  "tossing tacos."  She was confused and thought it was a problem with her English.  She asked the rest of us what it meant.  There were two English teachers there, and neither of them had heard that one.  The person who wrote the saying was a child from the Southwest, so we concluded that it was a Southwestern variation on "tossing cookies" (= vomiting).  Or the kid just came up with an, um, unique version of the common saying.    Your cartload of monkeys might be a similar case.  
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted August 09, 2006 05:51 AM
Edited by Binabik at 08:21, 09 Aug 2006.

So you got tired of waiting to see if I would start this thread? I didn't really think there would be much interest. I guess we'll find out.

Quote:
3. In german, we don't have a word describing the opposit of "thirsty"
It depends on what you mean by opposite. You could mean "not thirsty" which means you don't have a need to drink water. But the exact opposite would mean you already drank too much water. You could say "over hydrated" or maybe "quenched". Careful, "quenched" can be either a noun (condition of the body), or it can be a past tense verb. Quench also has other unrelated meanings.

Quote:
4. I often have problems when to write a word starting with capital letter, coz in english u mainly write without capital letters (not refering to the start fo a sentence of course). Does there exist a rule for that?
There're LOTS of rules for capitalization. Too many to list. I've heard the opposite, that English uses more capital letters than most languages. It's an Internet and email style to not use capitals. That style is not correct and it's laziness in my opinion, so you can't use online writing as a good example of proper caps.

All proper nouns use caps.

Common nouns, when used as a name or to address someone, use caps.
I went to the store with my mom. -- no caps
I went to the store with Mom. -- use caps
Would you like to go to the store, Mom? -- use caps

Adjectives, when part of a proper name, use caps.
I went for a walk along the blue river. -- No caps if "blue" describes the river's color.
I went for a walk along the Blue River. -- Use caps if "Blue River" is the name of the river.

Family members like aunt, uncle, grandmother work similarly to the "mom" example, but are more complicated.

If they are used as names they use caps.
May we leave now, Uncle? -- Use caps.
My uncle is leaving now. -- No caps.

You can have more than one uncle. When aunt, uncle, etc. are followed by a proper name, it is capitalized.
I saw Uncle Joe yesterday. -- "Uncle Joe" is a proper noun referring to one person.

If "Uncle Joe" is preceded by a possessive noun or pronoun, it is not capped.
I saw my uncle, Joe, yesterday. -- Break down into "I saw my uncle yesterday." Which uncle did you see? I saw Joe. The commas before and after "Joe" emphasize this, but are not necessary to determine if "uncle" should be capitalized.

Formal/proper words for languages, nationalities, races and ethnic groups are capped.
In German, we don't have a word describing the opposit of "thirsty" -- German should be capitalized.
That man is a Negro. -- Formal word, so use cap.
That man is a black. -- Informal word, so no cap.
Legend is French.  -- Formal word, so use cap.
Legend is a frogg. -- Informal word, so no cap.
California has a large population of Hispanics. -- Use cap.
California also has a large population of Asians. -- Use cap.

Not sure about this one, so someone can correct me.
I own a german shepherd. -- I think when used as an adjective like this "german" is not capped. Also I think "french fries", "dutch oven", "english ivy", "russian roulette" are not capped because the words are grouped together to form a common noun. Anyone know for sure on this? edit: see next two posts, this is not correct.

Titles like president, doctor and sir are done similarly to aunt, uncle, etc. -- Sir Mullich, Doctor Watson, "I went to the doctor"

Countries, street names and names of buildings all use caps. -- Main Street, World Trade Center -- If "the" is considered part of the name, use caps. -- The Hague

Business names and trademarks use caps. -- Ubisoft, Big Mac

Song or book titles use caps for all words except articles, conjunctions, etc. If you want to get picky, prepositions less than 5 letters are lower case, otherwise they are upper case. The first and last words are always capped no matter what kind of word they are.

I'm just getting started on capitalization. Want more?

---------------------------------

Quote:
5. In american english, u say "gas" instead of "petrol" (british english). But how do u call "real" gas (like CO for example)?
"Gas" is short for "gasoline." That's the common usage in the US. Gas is also one of the three states of matter: solid, liquid, gas. It depends on the context. If I put gas in my car, I'm not talking about carbon monoxide. If I "pass gas" (fart), I'm not talking about gasoline. "Pass gas" is probably a new idiom for you.

Quote:
3. An english guy in Gamespy (Durell) once corrected my "until now" into "as of yet", which is a phrase i've never heard before. Is this "as of yet" that common, and my "until now" nonsense? Or can u use both?
It depends on how they are used. If the word "yet" is used, it's normally used by itself, without the words "as of". "Until now" and "as of yet" do NOT mean the same thing.

Until now, I have not driven a car. -- or -- I have not driven a car, until now. -- This says you have not driven a car in the past, but now you have. In other words, you just drove for the first time. Informally, the sentence may be -- I have not driven a car till now. -- "Till" is not slang or a contraction, it's just a variation of until.

As of yet, I have not driven a car. -- or -- I have not driven a car, as of yet. -- This says you STILL have not driven a car. It also implies you plan on driving one in the future.

I would call "as of yet" somewhat formal. Normally someone would just say "I haven't driven a car yet." -- The word "yet" is an adverb modifying the verb "driven". The word "yet" always implies "I have not [verb], but I plan on [verb] in the future." -- Angelito, note that the word "yet" is an adverb. It is an exception to what I told you about adding -ly to make an adverb.

You didn't ask this question, but I see this a lot from non-native English people.
Quote:
I heard there does exist a name for that kind of writing. Anyone knows?
The words "does exist" should be "exists".

I heard a name exists for that kind of writing. Does anyone knows?
Better -- I heard there is a name for that kind of writing.

The only time you should use the word "does" in the first sentence is when you want to add emphasize or if you want to contradict.

Binabik: A name does not exist for that kind of writing.
Angelito: You're wrong, a name does exist for that kind of writing.

The response from Angelito contradicts the statement from me. When spoken, the word "does" would  be emphasized.

Notice when the word "does" is used, the letter "s" is dropped from "exist".
A name exists.
A name does exist.

I also see non-native people saying "does do" a lot.

He does do that. -- is wrong. It should be -- He does that. -- Unless "does do" is used for emphasis or to contradict.

Binabik: He never does that.
Angelito: Yes, he does do that.

It doesn't have to be a contradiction, "does do" can also be used to show agreement.

Binabik: He does that a lot.
Angelito: Yes, he does do that a lot.

Quote:
1. What's the difference between "How old are you?" and "What's your age?" Perhaps u use one of them refering to friends / people your age, and the other for "foreigners"?
I saw you post in another thread that in the German language, age and how well you know someone makes a difference. To my knowledge, there are no rules like that in English.

Due to culture, someone might speak to a person who is elderly a little more formally, or more politely. Or if they know a person well, they may speak more informally. But that's culture, not rules.

An example in the US, is The South. An older person may think it's very rude and too personnal if you address them by their first name. You would be better to address them as "Mr Smith" or "Sir". Again, that's culture, not rules of grammar.
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pitsu
pitsu


Adventuring Hero
posted August 09, 2006 09:38 AM
Edited by pitsu at 09:54, 09 Aug 2006.

Quote:

2. There is a movie called "Brother Where Art Thou?". Is this some kind of "lyric" language? Does it have the same meaning as "Brother where are you?"?


Everyone here says that they mean the same, but a small clarification should be done. "Thou" translates to German as "du", "you" originally meant only "ihr" (and honorable "You" meant "Sie"). Hence, you cannot use "thou" for more than one person, and in modern English "thou" is only used in lyric texts and insults. Edit: and of course "thou" is used also when talking to the God AFAIK.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 09, 2006 09:59 AM

Wow, i really appreciate all the answers and explanations. Helps a lot!
The explanation of "as of yet" is exactly what i was looking for, coz i used this "until now" in a sentence similar to: I have never used Tazar as main when playing stronghold until now (still don't have...). So "as of yet" would have been the correct formulation in this case. Lesson learned !

About using capitol letters and how often used in english language.
In german, EVERY noun starts with capital letters, no matter what. The other rules like "Blue River" or "Red card" (in soccer) are the same in german..if they belong together, u write them with capital letters.

The thirsty part was meant like this: "I am thirsty...i drink some water...no i am not thirsty anymore, i am "?????" (<-- 1 word).
Sure we can say "not thirsty" in german aswell, but we don't have a single word describing that. We do have a word for "not hungry anymore" in german though, it's named "satt".

@Binabik (and all other natives as well)
If u see wrong formulations in my posts like the one u mentioned (...does exist...), please feel free and point that out whenever u can. This is exactly the way how i get to know when i'm using your language "in a bad manner". Because using wrong phrases without knowing doesn't make them correct...

About the "to be as crafty as a cartload of monkeys"...
I've read that phrase in an online dictionary of an university, and i know about its meaning, but i want(ed) to know what it means exactly.
Here u can take a look at it.
U rarely can translate such sayings word by word to get their meaning. For example: "To carry coals to Newcastle" would mean nothing in german, coz our saying for that is: "Eulen nach Athen tragen" which means "To bring owls to Athens"


Once again, i really appreciate all your help. Looks like i have to speak and write more and more english in my job and i am too old to go to school again...
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted August 09, 2006 11:59 AM

Quote:
I have never used Tazar as main when playing stronghold until now (still don't have...).

"Still don't have" -> "Still haven't" -- Used like this, you would not use ANY conjugation of "to do", not even for emphasis. But if you complete the sentence, you could say something like "I still haven't done it." or "I still haven't used him." or "I still haven't."

The conjugations of "to do" must be very different in English. I've seen it used wrong by native speakers of several different languages. The most common mistake is using conjugations of "to do" when they should be left out completely.

"I have never used Tazar as main when playing Stronghold." Leave off "until now" if you still have not played with him.  I'm not sure if Stronghold should be upper case???

Note that my Tazar sentence is NOT correct grammar. It's only OK around HOMM players who know what you mean by "main". Correct grammar would be "I have never used Tazar as my main hero...." or something like that.
Quote:
The thirsty part was meant like this: "I am thirsty...i drink some water...no i am not thirsty anymore, i am "?????"
"Quenched" will work, as in "I quenched my thirst." or "I am quenched." or "I am not thirsty any more." But in casual conversation, someone would probably say something like:

"I was thirsty as hell, but drinking that liter of water really did the trick." At least that's how I'd probably say it.

If you were talking about food, you would be "full" after you ate. There's not really a good casual conversational word like "full" when you are talking about not being thirsty any more.

Now if you drank 7 liters of water you would probably say "I really gotta piss."

Quote:
If u see wrong formulations in my posts like the one u mentioned (...does exist...), please feel free and point that out whenever u can.
When I first talked to you about a thread like this, the idea I had was to create a sign up list in the first post. Anyone who signs up agrees it's OK to quote anything they post at HC and correct it in this thread. As long as people don't start getting picky about typos, spelling, etc.

BTW "wrong formulations". Formulations is not the best word. I know what you mean, but it would never be said that way.....not by normal people anyway.

If you see incorrect grammar in any of my posts, like the one you mentioned, please feel free to point it out when you can. -- This is better, but still has a problem. What does the phrase "like the one you mentioned" refer to? Does it refer to one of your post? Or does it refer to incorrect grammar? You placed the phrase after "posts" implying it refers to a post I mentioned.

If you see incorrect grammar, like the mistake you mentioned, in any of my posts, please feel free... -- Still not clear.

In any of my posts, if you see incorrect grammar (like the mistake you mentioned), please feel free.... -- That's the best I can think of.

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angelito
angelito


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posted August 10, 2006 09:09 PM
Edited by angelito at 21:12, 10 Aug 2006.

Quote:
...When I first talked to you about a thread like this, the idea I had was to create a sign up list in the first post. Anyone who signs up agrees it's OK to quote anything they post at HC and correct it in this thread. As long as people don't start getting picky about typos, spelling, etc....

I would be the first to sign up

And btw...i recieved another line from a friend about that "thirsty" issue:
He drank greedily until his thirst was satiated

What do u think about that?
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Binabik
Binabik


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posted August 10, 2006 10:58 PM
Edited by Binabik at 23:11, 10 Aug 2006.

Quote:
He drank greedily until his thirst was satiated
Didn't think of that one. Pretty good though. But you would never hear that sentence in everyday conversation. It sounds exactly like something you'd read in a novel. "Drank greedily" is definitely not everyday language. "Satiated" is not something a person with an 8th grade education would say. And it would be uncommon in every day language, even for educated people.

If you ask questions, I assume you are talking about middle class street talk unless you say otherwise.

About the sign up list. It's your thread, so you'd have to do that.

Oh, yea. If I see something you write, do you want corrections to grammar only, or also sentence structure and style. For example:

Quote:
You really should try to get some online games with human opponents going and check out how strong...
The word "going" is placed wrong. Better: "You really should try to get some online games going with human opponents....."

In this example, the way you said it is also the same way a LOT of native speakers would say it. But my sentence would be preferred, even for conversational.

This is getting into a fine point. In your sentence you might want to replace the word "and" with "to". The word "and" implies you are performing two actions. "Getting the game going" is one action. "Checking out how strong" is a second action.

Using the word "to" gives a reason for the first action. Why do you get a game going? To check out how strong....

In every day conversation, nobody gives a ****. But you did title the thread "advanced" English. I guess now is a good time to say I'm probably only "average" in English grammar and I don't even know the names for the parts of speech (except the basics). But I've been speaking English for a long time.
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angelito
angelito


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posted August 10, 2006 11:31 PM
Edited by angelito at 23:32, 10 Aug 2006.

Quote:
...If you ask questions, I assume you are talking about middle class street talk unless you say otherwise.
Correct. This is wy it also helps if u point out "non common" phrases.

Quote:
Oh, yea. If I see something you write, do you want corrections to grammar only, or also sentence structure and style.
Would be nice if u point out all errors...

Quote:
Using the word "to" gives a reason for the first action. Why do you get a game going? To check out how strong....
OK, got that.

Quote:
In every day conversation, nobody gives a ****. But you did title the thread "advanced" English. I guess now is a good time to say I'm probably only "average" in English grammar and I don't even know the names for the parts of speech (except the basics). But I've been speaking English for a long time.
Your "average" english grammar seems to be way enough to improve my "advanced" english..

I still hope some more non natives will post their questions and / or ask for corrections of their posts.
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Binabik
Binabik


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posted August 11, 2006 09:41 AM
Edited by Binabik at 09:54, 11 Aug 2006.

"non common"
Do you mean uncommon?

"Non" is NEVER used as a single word. (unless it's a foreign term used in English like non sequitur)

There might be a rule about "non" and "un", but I think you just have to memorize them or use a dictionary.

With "un", it's always one word such as uncommon or unfair. With "non" it might be one word (nonstop), or it might be hyphenated  (non-native). (non-native is not in my dictionary, but it looks weird without the hyphen)

There are probably not many native English speakers who know when to use the hyphen with non, so don't worry about doing it wrong. If you aren't sure, don't use the hyphen and there's a 95% chance you are right.

--------------------

"seems to be way enough"

That's completely wrong....not sure why though, it just is.

How about:

Your "average" English grammar seems to be good enough to improve my "advanced" English.

The way you said it, maybe you really meant:

...seems to be more than good enough...

or

...seems to be way more than good enough... -- When spoken, "way" would be emphasized.

You can say "way more than", but not "way good" or "way enough".

Actually "way more than good enough" is a little awkward. It's OK, but those words together trick you into thinking it's not OK. I can give more detail if you want.

Replace "good enough" with "satisfactory" to make it more formal. Replace "way" with "much", same reason.

....seems to be much more than satisfactory to improve.... -- not awkward now

------------------------

Back to thirsty. Look at the root word:

satisfactory (like the word "sat")
satisfy (like the word "sat")
satiate (like the 3 words "say she ate")

Drinking the water was satisfactory.
After drinking the water I was satisfied.
After drinking the water I was satiated.

All three are correct. "Satisfied" is best for casual and OK for formal. And "satiate" --- I might hear it once every five years.

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angelito
angelito


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posted August 11, 2006 11:26 AM
Edited by angelito at 14:00, 11 Aug 2006.

Not sure where i got that "way enough..." phrase from. Guess i saw it in a chat lobby sometime. I was looking for a translation for the german phrase "bei weitem", but it seems "by far" fits it better, right?

About the "non" and "un" usage.
I guess this fault is made pretty easily by a german, coz we use those two words in this way:

"un" (same word in german) is used with adjectives and nouns (while formed 1 word), for example:
- unschön (not beauty)
- unsauber (not clean)
- unklar (not clear)
- unwahr (not true)
- Unsinn (something without sense)

...while "non" (german: "nicht") is used with nouns (while formed 1 word), or with adjectives while they stay 2 words, for example:
- Nichtschwimmer (non-swimmer....someone who is not able to swim)
- Nichtraucher (non-smoker)
- nicht schön (not beauty)
- nicht sauber (not clean)
- nicht klar (not clear)

Ok...let's leave the german excursion and go back to the english grammar:
I've often read the phrase "me thinks", be it at the Zone or now in Gamespy. From natives and from non-natives. An american woman once told me (after i've used that phrase on MSN talk with her), it would sound pretty funny, but no native english speaker would say that.
Is this again the famous "american - british" difference?
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