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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5
Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5 This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 20, 2007 12:42 PM
Edited by Elvin at 12:49, 20 Mar 2007.

Ehm I am talking about a magic-oriented Yrwanna Destructive of course and with an addition of dark every once in a while. And normally I won't use raise dead but it depends on the situation. I am not talking about a battle with 20 archangels and 40 champions!
(Naturally the furies are kept out of the battlefield in most fights between human players or ranged creeps until the last one.)

Edit:
Seems I was half right. Counterspell takes one turn but the enemy hero can still play faster due to sorcery!
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 20, 2007 01:15 PM

@DoomForge - I don't want to start an argument about this ... You have your mind made up on Vashyan and his assasins, so I won't try to change that.
Instead I will show you a situation where you might find furys the best you can get! Against ConuterSpelling Academy , that destroys your Matriarchs you are a gonner ! But Yrwanna isn't cause she has the Mighty Furys at her side to win the game for her ...

Can you tell me that Vashyan's Assassins can do the same difference about a game? We are talking about deadly rushes here, that's what dungeon is good for ! In late game you will be washed away by mighty armies like Haven, Sylvan and Inferno either with Furys or Assassins

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted March 20, 2007 01:25 PM

Quote:
I don't want to start an argument about this ... You have your mind made up on Vashyan and his assasins, so I won't try to change that.

He just plays 1-2 games with a hero and then says: "whoa, this is the BEST hero EVER". Much like it was Kythra before Vayshan
... and he says I'm a theorycrafter

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 20, 2007 02:01 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 14:06, 20 Mar 2007.

..cuz you are

1-2 games? Bah! 10-20 seems more adequate!

TowerLord, read my posts again.. neither assassins nor furies are useful in the endgame!!! Its just that 40 assassins on the start are better, because you creep with magic and need tanks! Assassins take the role of tanks in the earlygame! Later on you just use 6 stacks of 1 assassin vs casters if you want to creep them, otherwise they don't matter at all I am not saying Vayshan is good or smth, I just need tanks badly in the earlygame, and I like to have warlock's luck as soon as possible, that's why I like him..

I'm no God of heroes5 and no gosu gamer aswell, so my statements change in time and are not really that good at all (many things change when i.e. my friends invent a counterstrategy - that's why I change my mind so often about particular strategies ;P). So don't expect me to write true and valid things all the time..

But guys, we're doing a HUGE offtopic here..

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted March 20, 2007 02:29 PM

Quote:
But guys, we're doing a HUGE offtopic here..
It's surprisingly for me at least, how far this thread has gone...

should I remind that it was also the host of "luck" discussions?

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phinex
phinex


Adventuring Hero
for sylvan
posted March 20, 2007 03:17 PM
Edited by phinex at 15:24, 20 Mar 2007.

Yrwanna is very good for rush.
The following is the the most common strategy in China,on the heroic.
First upgraded the fury and build the magic guild 1.
The slow walker are easy,when face the fast walker or shooter,only send the some scout to the battlefield,it's not hard to win.
Notice that creeping must save the mana,if not nessary,don't use magic.
The most important point is secrets of destruction,if have the lv3 magic then thres is no neet to build the magic guild 3,other heroes hire the creatures and give them to Yrwanna.Then Yrwanna can rush.
Sometimes Yrwanna can creeping or rush without come back the city.

With the Hall of Intrigue,at least you have 4k and 60mana,that's enough.The mana no longer the problem.
Other skills are sorecy(acrane train),destruction magic and luck.

If without the lv3 spell,then build the lv3 magic guild and hydra,then you also can rush.
With this strategy the time we finish the game is about w3~w4.

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted March 20, 2007 03:24 PM
Edited by ZombieLord at 15:26, 20 Mar 2007.

Here's what I did with Yrwanna and a level 2 dwelling on Heroic: (with Furies ofc)

1.Defeated 38 War Dancers at week 1 day 6 with NO SPELLS
2.Defeated 52 War Dancers at week 2 day 2 with Empowered Eldricth Arrow
3.Defeated 26 Imperial Griffins at week 2 around day 5 with Empowered Eldricth Arrow and luck triggered at first attack
4.Defeated 34 Vampire Lords the next day but luck triggered once
5.Defeated 36 Imperial Griffins at week 3 day 2 (doh, this was REALLY tough, they destroyed my ballista I got from Havez!)
6.Defeated 138 Archers the next day (Morale triggered on Furies, otherwise I would have been finished) (they really killed 69 Archers in one blow and could have killed a little more)
7.Defeated 'cant remember how much' Silver Unicorns at week 3 'cant remember what day'
8.Defeated 19 Cavaliers at week 3 (or was it 4 at day 1?)

... and I had only Empowered Eldricth Arrow all this time (can't build many Magic Guilds on Heroic)

I'm telling you it's the truth! I HAD screenshots but it seems I erased them...

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 20, 2007 03:28 PM

Oh, I believe you! But why to risk so much if you can do THE SAME with spells, and much more, while losing 1-2 scouts/assassins? There is simply no reason. Yrwanna is an overkill and I won't change my mind!

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted March 20, 2007 03:31 PM

Yes but spells are expensive (Mage Guilds) and sometimes on Heroic you don't have enough money for them (and for the dwellings ofc)

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SilverSeraph
SilverSeraph

Tavern Dweller
posted March 20, 2007 05:20 PM

Abilities

Back to the topic at hand, which is discussing the Academy faction and the MMR strategy...

I was wondering a few things. First, which abilities should you choose? I know that the main priority is on maximizing the skills (especially the magic schools) to expert, but which abilities should go with them? I know that the Mark of the Wizard is fairly obvious, the Arcane Training is already there anyway (whether you choose Jhora or Nur for MMR-ing, no difference, both have it) and since the Phoenix is a very important part of the strategy, Master of Conjuration should be a given. However, I am not quite sure about the other abilities. Which of the abilities should you pretty much always choose, when offered?

Another thing. When MMR-ing, what should be the optimal city build you should have at the end of the first few weeks. After upgrading Gremlins and building the Parapet, I started focusing exclusively on the Halls and Mage Guilds. Dunno if that's the best way to go...

By the way, I'm fairly new to HOMM5, having played all the previous four games, although HOMM3 WAY more than the others, so I still make loads of mistakes . Still, using MMR for the first time ever, it was fairly easy to get my hero to lvl 9 by day 7 with 6 spellpower and 12 knowledge, full mana, only losses being 2 Master Gremlins dead from Assassins' poison.

So any help on the abilities and preferred build order is appreciated. Thanks.
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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted March 20, 2007 05:48 PM
Edited by dschingi at 17:59, 20 Mar 2007.

Hi there

Actually you already got it right. The abilities have rather low priority at the beginning, except Mark of the Wizard. You need to get the magic schools up quickly or you won't be able to learn higher spells early. If you have Light or Dark Magic you should take some of the abilities to get mass spells though, and if you think your enemy uses Dark or Light you should consider the abilities Suppress Light and Seal of Darkness... Later you might want to raise Artificer and take Magic Mirror depending on your resources and your enemy. With Jhora it's obvious to take Counterspell because it will offered to you at every level up once you have Advanced Sorcery. Nur doesn't start with Arcane Training but with Mana Regeneration
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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 20, 2007 07:14 PM

ill add my 2 cents here as well

I have signed in to a chaotic clan and i play dungeon only, all maps. I used to pick Sinitar as my main hero since his ability is very good and destructive at the beginning is nice too. I changed my mind when i didn't get enlightenment in few games and it wasn't my fault, i did all things to get it but it just didn't appear. Thats why i have switched to Yrwanna and i must say I'm happy about it. I found out Sinitars ability not as neccessery as it may looked like and those additional boosted furies really help a lot in creeping.

I just played against sylvan on Battle for Honor and I have crept almost everything on my side of the map until week 4 day 7 and on that day i killed archevils guardians.(by the way, I won the game thanks to my 3/4 lucky spells/hits and staff of netherwords and some other lucky things - so yeah u can win against sylvan in those maps,but I admit, I was uber lucky this game)
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 20, 2007 07:23 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 19:24, 20 Mar 2007.

Hey, when that enlightment problem has happened? In 2.0? I could not pick sorcery in 2.0, no matter how hard I would try (It _NEVER_ appeared in the levelups) so perhaps it was the same problem.

Sure, sinitar isn't necessary. His ability isn't that great either. But every bit helps, you know. I still prefer Vayshan, though

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 20, 2007 07:28 PM

It was 2.1 already, bad luck i guess.
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SilverSeraph
SilverSeraph

Tavern Dweller
posted March 20, 2007 08:06 PM

Thanks for the answer, dschingi. Really helped me a lot. Two new questions, though

1.) Magic Mirror and Counterspell are mostly useful against Dungeon, right? Against who else should I choose those abilities?

2.) How useful are the magic-hosers, anyway? I know it can be a pain in the backside having to pay 40 mana for a Mass Cleansing, but then again it seems to only be effective against heroes with low mana reserves (read: light knights). Against a Dark Magic-spamming Demon Lord, for example, does it really help, since the enemy usually has a large amount of mana and he probably only needs to cast 3-4 spells per battle.

I just want to know how high should I prioritize these suppression abilities, if I know the enemy uses that kind of magic.

Also,

Quote:
Nur doesn't start with Arcane Training but with Mana Regeneration


The icons for those two abilities look so bloody similar so I confused them. My bad.

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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted March 20, 2007 08:51 PM

Quote:
ill add my 2 cents here as well

I have signed in to a chaotic clan and i play dungeon only, all maps. I used to pick Sinitar as my main hero since his ability is very good and destructive at the beginning is nice too. I changed my mind when i didn't get enlightenment in few games and it wasn't my fault, i did all things to get it but it just didn't appear. Thats why i have switched to Yrwanna and i must say I'm happy about it. I found out Sinitars ability not as neccessery as it may looked like and those additional boosted furies really help a lot in creeping.

I just played against sylvan on Battle for Honor and I have crept almost everything on my side of the map until week 4 day 7 and on that day i killed archevils guardians.(by the way, I won the game thanks to my 3/4 lucky spells/hits and staff of netherwords and some other lucky things - so yeah u can win against sylvan in those maps,but I admit, I was uber lucky this game)


ubber lucky indeed
staff of the netherworlds = 50% more chances to win game imho ... it is the ultimate artifact

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86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted March 20, 2007 08:59 PM

Quote:
Back to the topic at hand, which is discussing the Academy faction and the MMR strategy...

I was wondering a few things. First, which abilities should you choose? I know that the main priority is on maximizing the skills (especially the magic schools) to expert, but which abilities should go with them? I know that the Mark of the Wizard is fairly obvious, the Arcane Training is already there anyway (whether you choose Jhora or Nur for MMR-ing, no difference, both have it) and since the Phoenix is a very important part of the strategy, Master of Conjuration should be a given. However, I am not quite sure about the other abilities. Which of the abilities should you pretty much always choose, when offered?

Another thing. When MMR-ing, what should be the optimal city build you should have at the end of the first few weeks. After upgrading Gremlins and building the Parapet, I started focusing exclusively on the Halls and Mage Guilds. Dunno if that's the best way to go...

By the way, I'm fairly new to HOMM5, having played all the previous four games, although HOMM3 WAY more than the others, so I still make loads of mistakes . Still, using MMR for the first time ever, it was fairly easy to get my hero to lvl 9 by day 7 with 6 spellpower and 12 knowledge, full mana, only losses being 2 Master Gremlins dead from Assassins' poison.

So any help on the abilities and preferred build order is appreciated. Thanks.


The abilities should give you some help at least, so no must-pick-every-game skill or ability. Same for building order. I must say that Towerlord said something wrong about MMR. The point is to creep fast using magics but not to build fifth level mage guild fast. Eldritch arrow is enough for all low level creatures and some high levels. If you get wasp swarm then the higher level of magic guilds become unncerrsary unless you are under a rush or you are rushing. And there are other great low level spells there like fire trap, fireball or mass decay, any one is enough for creeping. All academy players should build mage guild level 2 as soon as possible, then they can go creeping without coming back. Focus on dwellings plz. This may seem strange when we are suppose to talk about MMR, but academy is far more than magics. Try to get as many troops as possible, and arm them with powerful mini-artis is as important as learning magics. In a heroic game on a map not very poor, you should be able to make 6 mini-artis with one or two effects but the end of the fifth week. In a rich map it is even possible to get all troops with highest level miniartis.

Dungeon do not have any problem in creeping no matter what hero is used. However sinitar and yrwanna should be the fastest in creeping. There is nothing about fury, like doomforge said, you don't really need too many of them. But you do need mana(which will never be enough), and yrwanna's intellgence and sinitar's catalyst provide them. For vayshan, he is the best hero against a fast rush. Dungeon's low level creatures have few hp, especially furies, they can't stand a couple of magics or physical attacks, while vayshan's 50+ assassins is a great meat shield in the second week. And he can get warlock's luck very early, which is another advantage. After all, you do not need intelligence if you can get like 14 knowledge or so(and it happens some times), but warlock's luck is always welcome. It is useful both in the final fight and in creeping. I like sinitar myself, simply because yrwanna is ugly Besides, no intelligence may be acceptable for sinitar, but no destructive magic skill(i mean can't learn it early enought)is deadly for yrwanna. Dark ritual itself is very helpful in early creeping. Every hero should have this ability. When one of the heroes run out of mana, you can give troops to another hero and use dark ritual while the other hero can creep with mana, so you will never stop and waste time when using dark ritual.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted March 20, 2007 09:26 PM

Well said, 86wyp.. Creatures are important for academy, wizard is not a  warlock who can do well without creatures (or with tanks only).. Wizard's abilities, mini-arties and light magic actually make him a very decent might hero with an obvious level-advantage due to uberfast creeping and neverending mana..

I agree with what you've said about dungeon, just one thing, why do you say no intelligence for sinitar? I always end up with enlightment for warlocks, and most of the time with intelligence aswell..

I haven't made up my mind yet which hero to choose, Vayshan or Sinitar. both are great for the style I'm trying to play, to be honest.


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 20, 2007 09:33 PM

Sinitar's advantage is visible in around lvl 15 where he can use empowered spells almost as much as his normal ones but he may not get warlock's luck for sure like Vayshan. Eruina too has a great start but I prefer the fully magic route(though her special comes along nicely later on ) Many times my picks are based on skills and not specials.
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86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted March 20, 2007 09:50 PM

Quote:
Well said, 86wyp.. Creatures are important for academy, wizard is not a  warlock who can do well without creatures (or with tanks only).. Wizard's abilities, mini-arties and light magic actually make him a very decent might hero with an obvious level-advantage due to uberfast creeping and neverending mana..

I agree with what you've said about dungeon, just one thing, why do you say no intelligence for sinitar? I always end up with enlightment for warlocks, and most of the time with intelligence aswell..

I haven't made up my mind yet which hero to choose, Vayshan or Sinitar. both are great for the style I'm trying to play, to be honest.




Well, dungeon needs tanks at least Anyway enlightment is a must IMHO as it provides a lot of power as well as some knowledge and defence. Intelligence is also great for extra mana, but sometimes, one lucky enpowered meteor shower or armageddon ends the game Anyway, you can leave the battle field whenever run out of mana, just don't bring to many troops so that when you prepare to run, you don't need to pay much

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