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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5
Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5 This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
Towerlord
Towerlord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted January 08, 2007 01:13 PM

yes +8 attack , but also +8 defense @ lvl 16. you say that is not much, but taking enlightment will give you less than that. +16 to your main troop att/def makes it really a super power!

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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted January 08, 2007 01:35 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 13:37, 08 Jan 2007.

Other Knight heroes can take Enlightenment too

Besides I didn't say "it's useless", but it's not like "turning marksmen into super powers, instead of being kids that can't harm flies".

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ZombieLord
ZombieLord


Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
posted January 08, 2007 01:40 PM

ahhh yes, that speciality is like Ultimate Enlightment (gives +1 to one of hero's primary stats for every level) But only to Marksmen

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theluCas
theluCas


Adventuring Hero
thiNk
posted January 10, 2007 03:29 PM
Edited by theluCas at 15:30, 10 Jan 2007.

I am very interested for results of tests from match academy vs inferno(deleb), post it pls 86wyp
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted January 10, 2007 03:36 PM

He occasionally checks the round table so if you pm him there he'll eventually get your requests. I'll tell him to check in here if I happen to see him.
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A sea without waves is no longer a sea. It's a pond.

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zuraffo
zuraffo

Tavern Dweller
posted January 11, 2007 10:09 PM

Quote:
I am very interested for results of tests from match academy vs inferno(deleb), post it pls 86wyp


http://gamebbs.enet.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=2902726&extra=page%3D2%26amp%3Bfilter%3Ddigest

Above is the original post.

I am not inclined to translate the whole lot of text but the catch of it is Jhora won the match by basically switching base. She basically gave up developing her starting academy city except the required lvl 1 to 3 units (upgraded gremlin, gargoyle and golem not upgraded). Jhora player made some calculated guess that Deleb player will be coming towards her from the left side (and she was right), so Jhora took the right side. So when Deleb's player realize Jhora's player has arrived at her door from the left she was too far into the right. Deleb's player discovered and took out an hero waiting to ambush her and took the Academy city, only to realize that it was under-developed (not even have a +1000 hall, I think), well-as her Demon City was quite developed. Jhora completed the mages guild at the Demon City and got chain-lightning and implosion. Deleb recruited one week worth of Academy troops and fight back, and the final battle was rather one-sided.

Anyway Jhora's player was lucky because right after she took the demon city it was week of the nightmare.

It's not a verbatim translation, but that's the gist of it. I don't think you can see the screenshot without registering. I'll ask someone to post the screenshots.

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theluCas
theluCas


Adventuring Hero
thiNk
posted January 11, 2007 11:08 PM
Edited by theluCas at 23:09, 11 Jan 2007.

Quote:
Quote:
I am very interested for results of tests from match academy vs inferno(deleb), post it pls 86wyp


http://gamebbs.enet.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=2902726&extra=page%3D2%26amp%3Bfilter%3Ddigest

Above is the original post.

I am not inclined to translate the whole lot of text but the catch of it is Jhora won the match by basically switching base. She basically gave up developing her starting academy city except the required lvl 1 to 3 units (upgraded gremlin, gargoyle and golem not upgraded). Jhora player made some calculated guess that Deleb player will be coming towards her from the left side (and she was right), so Jhora took the right side. So when Deleb's player realize Jhora's player has arrived at her door from the left she was too far into the right. Deleb's player discovered and took out an hero waiting to ambush her and took the Academy city, only to realize that it was under-developed (not even have a +1000 hall, I think), well-as her Demon City was quite developed. Jhora completed the mages guild at the Demon City and got chain-lightning and implosion. Deleb recruited one week worth of Academy troops and fight back, and the final battle was rather one-sided.

Anyway Jhora's player was lucky because right after she took the demon city it was week of the nightmare.

It's not a verbatim translation, but that's the gist of it. I don't think you can see the screenshot without registering. I'll ask someone to post the screenshots.


thx you, are there some statistics? Coz one game does not mean many.
That academy player is very inventive. And i want to know chinesse,

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 12, 2007 08:48 AM

86wyp wrote the results of the inferno test here in this topic ;P

And it seems it was quite a match.. yet he got lucky. Still, infernal forces were a serious opponent. ^_^

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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted January 13, 2007 06:48 AM

Inferno is the real ruler...


[img http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/93/867/1600/944038/victory_00001.jpg[/img]














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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted January 13, 2007 06:51 AM

Inferno is the real ruler...

















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Sanyu
Sanyu


Known Hero
posted January 13, 2007 06:57 AM

Heck, can't seem to upload photos, but at my blog u can see a landslide victory of inferno vs fortress...



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supphanat
supphanat


Hired Hero
posted February 16, 2007 09:25 PM

Quote:
Hello everyone

I am a homm5 player from China. It¡¯s great to meet all of you here and I am very glad to have this chance discussing races and strategies in homm5.

I have just spent some time looking through the Temple of Ashan Forum. One thing that really makes me surprised is that many players on this forum consider Academy the worst race in homm5 simply because of ¡°useless racial ability¡± and ¡°ridiculous resource cost¡±. I don¡¯t know whether the results of your multiplayer games reflect that or not; however, in the most ¡°advanced¡± forum of homm5 in China, we have draw the conclusion that in version 2.0, Academy is one of the most powerful races, even somewhat overpowered, at least in the first two months of the game.

Currently there is a homm5 match on our forum; many experienced players have taken part in that match and we saw a lot of new strategies. The result may be surprising to you: the Academy won almost all the games against inferno, haven, dungeon, necropolis and sylvan(the new race fortress has not been included in the match).Even the most famous mighty heroes like Deleb, Vittorio, Sinitar and Dougal are not able to stop the supremacy of powerful Academy army.

How can that be?

At first, nobody thought Academy could win so many games, but when a new strategy of Academy was created and put into practice, everyone got shocked. We call that strategy: MMR (multiple-magic rush).

The central idea of MMR is using magic. At the beginning of the game, an Academy player would creep as many as possible and get a level 15+ hero(hopefully) in the third week. Instead of building high level creatures like titan and rakshasa raja, the Academy player would use all of his/her resources to build magic tower and library. In heroic level, an Academy player would normally have a level 10 hero at the end of the first week and 5th magic tower and library in the second week. When leveling up, the Academy players would put all skill points into two or three classes of magic, usually summoning the first, followed by destructive and/or dark magic, sometimes light magic instead of dark magic. What magic to be chosen depends on what magic the tower and library provide and what race they are facing. For example, when the players see slow or confusion appears in the magic tower, they will then learn dark magic skill asap, and when they see deflect missile in the tower and the opposing race is haven or necropolis, they will learn light magic skill. Normally the summoning magic skill is a must have. Of course they would also learn sorcery and enlightenment to improve their magical power. Finally, they would buy artifacts to even improve their power and make artifacts for their army. The interesting thing is, because they creep a lot at the beginning and take over many mines, the Academy players will have nearly infinite resources after the third week which can be used to make artifacts or build titans.

Using the magic, the Academy players can find the weakness of any enemy, and no race is able to defend all types of magic at the same time. In fact, the opposing players even didn¡¯t know what magic they would face in the battle field. Up to now, the only way that seems to be effective against MMR is to rush in the first or second week when the Academy hero doesn¡¯t have high level magic yet. Otherwise, game would normally end in the 4th or 5th week with Academy dominating the last battle.

Here is the most recent game between Academy and Dungeon:

This is Academy hero level 20 Jhora in the 5th week:


Jhora¡¯s skills:


Jhora¡¯s artifacts:


Look at the titans we see that the artifact provide 70% magic reduction, 24% initiative improvement and 3 luck. This is a team of SUPER titans:


The Dungeon hero level 16 Yrwanna:


Yrwanna¡¯s skills:


Yrwanna¡¯s artifacts:


Level 16 for Yrwanna is little bit low but ok. Both heroes have excellent artifacts, Jhora¡¯s are better.

Now lets see the battle:


Jhora has Phoenix, Resurrection, and Implosion. With 12 power and emerald slippers she can deal nasty damage. Further more, Jhora can also use mark of the wizard to make her implosion twice as powerful. Not mention her horrible casting speed. Yrwanna has implosion too, but her mana could only support 3 empowered implosion, and destructive magic are not as useful against golems and SUPER titans as against dungeon army without black dragon; besides, Jhora has resurrection and faster casting speed.

So, this is the result:



Quite one-sided isn't it?

Titans are good, but Academy can win easily without them.
No Armageddon Dragon in homm any more? Now there is Armageddon Gargoyle and Golem










HI 86wyp

I hope you are still around. I have tried your strategy and I found that MMR with wizard is easier than any other fraction (much easier than knight ). Actually, I usually use necromancer for MMR. His spell power is good but he has the problem of low mana. Anyway, I have a question about wizard's MMR. You said that the only way to counter MMR is to rush within first two week and I am facing this problem. What will you do? When I play necromancer MMR, this problem does not occur because I am collecting skeleton archer while I am creeping. But for wizard, the army is very weak and during the first two week the powerful spell is not ready yet.

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Fortress_fan
Fortress_fan

Disgraceful

posted February 16, 2007 09:31 PM

When will you understand? Charlie Falcom (86wyp) are a drunk Oxford student who like to fool newbies. He has clearly very fun of you now...
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supphanat
supphanat


Hired Hero
posted February 16, 2007 10:15 PM

Quote:
When will you understand? Charlie Falcom (86wyp) are a drunk Oxford student who like to fool newbies. He has clearly very fun of you now...


I don't know. Maybe he is trying to fool people but I wrote this because I really test this strategy myself. Actually, I have used this strategy before he posted this topic but never with wizard. And this time, I have tried it with wizard. I found the problem that I have never faced when I play necromancer MMR. So I asked him and hope that he knows the solution. That is all. If he is just trying to fool poeple, it is fine. I will find the solution and develope this strategy myself

So you know him personally?
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sq79
sq79


Famous Hero
posted February 16, 2007 10:15 PM

Lol this yrwanna looks like someone who doesn't understand dungeon too well ?
She should probably learn luck/warlock's luck and logistics to creep much faster than ihora instead of attack and summoning?
When ihora is level 20, yrwanna should be about 22 or so with logs to compare.
And 5 titans = 5 dragons for yrwanna to be fair.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted February 16, 2007 11:55 PM

Give it a rest fortress_fan. It simply works and you should try it too if only to convince yourself. But after a few tries to be sure you got it right!
Look, more people than me have tried it and believe 86wyp. Why do you still treat him like a liar? Out of common courtesy you could just be hesitant- not rub it in his face and tell everyone it is a hoax. Do you treat people like that in real life too?
Some of his pics show less experienced(or unlucky) opponents and unavailable artifacts or titans in a day they'd be too hard to acquire but apart from these everything seems in order and it is a perfectly viable strategy. And even if you counter that the opponents could be better I can say that in most cases they would just be harder to put down. And no, I didn't figure out my own working strategy out of what he said, I merely followed his advice and saw it for what it has to offer.
Now try to be so kind as not to bring this up again, it is getting tiresome.
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A sea without waves is no longer a sea. It's a pond.

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supphanat
supphanat


Hired Hero
posted February 17, 2007 12:32 AM

Quote:
Give it a rest fortress_fan. It simply works and you should try it too if only to convince yourself. But after a few tries to be sure you got it right!
Look, more people than me have tried it and believe 86wyp. Why do you still treat him like a liar? Out of common courtesy you could just be hesitant- not rub it in his face and tell everyone it is a hoax. Do you treat people like that in real life too?
Some of his pics show less experienced(or unlucky) opponents and unavailable artifacts or titans in a day they'd be too hard to acquire but apart from these everything seems in order and it is a perfectly viable strategy. And even if you counter that the opponents could be better I can say that in most cases they would just be harder to put down. And no, I didn't figure out my own working strategy out of what he said, I merely followed his advice and saw it for what it has to offer.
Now try to be so kind as not to bring this up again, it is getting tiresome.


Actually, I think this is just only a common strategy that everybody is using but we never name it. I have used this strategy since HOMM3. The concept is only to give higher priority to develop your hero's power than building higher level creature. Then destroy your enermy with hero's magic power like dungeon fraction or as we all know amagedon+black dragon is the best in HOMM3. However, 86wyp found that this strategy works better with academy in HOMM5 and I quite agree because dungeon has the problem of lacking mana.

Anyway, anyone can answer my question? The weak point of this strategy is before your hero can learn the powerful spell, you will be very weak because of lacking army (first two week). Any way to solve this problem?

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86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted February 17, 2007 04:56 AM

In the thread, vittorio rushed nur in the 2nd week, but nur got phoenix and won the game. So it is quite obvious that the only way is still magic(take havez for exception). The problem is also obvious. If you don't get good magics from the magic guild, you won't survive Besides, try to collect as many creatures as possible. Normally academy should have level1~4 units in the second week. Larger troops equals more hero actions. Finally, if you hate taking risks, use nathir or havez.

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Fortress_fan
Fortress_fan

Disgraceful

posted February 17, 2007 09:15 AM

Quote:
You know him

If he was a Chinese he shouldn't have "Charlie_Falcon" as his email. Those drunk bastards at Oxford...

Quote:
Do you treat people like that in real life too?


Only those I realy don't like or political opponenets. But on the internet, you don't have to act as in real life, right?

The onlything he says that is right is to use nathir, Nathir-Archmagi rush simply pwns MMR.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted February 17, 2007 12:08 PM

Quote:
Actually, I think this is just only a common strategy that everybody is using but we never name it. I have used this strategy since HOMM3. The concept is only to give higher priority to develop your hero's power than building higher level creature. Then destroy your enermy with hero's magic power like dungeon fraction or as we all know amagedon+black dragon is the best in HOMM3. However, 86wyp found that this strategy works better with academy in HOMM5 and I quite agree because dungeon has the problem of lacking mana.

Anyway, anyone can answer my question? The weak point of this strategy is before your hero can learn the powerful spell, you will be very weak because of lacking army (first two week). Any way to solve this problem?


Not common, I can tell you that. In H3 it was perfectly possible yet not in H5 and those that do it may get the wrong end of the stick more often than not. Especially without academy. Dungeon in all probability won't use a Multi Magic Rush because warlocks don't NEED to take more than destructive. Fast creeping and mage guild building is but a part of MMR.

Actually not weak. Because in week 1,2 a wizard has motw+eldritch arrow(most possibly) and a lvl advantage. Even in a small, none can gain an overpowering army to take him down easily unless he has already exhausted his mana. By end of week 2 he should have mage guild 4 and access to fire wall or summon elementals for sure, possibly some good dark/destructive spells.
Some time after mage guild 4 is built there is a risk however because if you got the bad combination iot will may take another week until you get library. Or he was unlucky not to get the schools he wanted early. That's when I feel a wizard is vulnerable.
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