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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5
Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5 This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 28, 2006 05:51 AM

Quote:
i think every single faction is great if you know how to play it... if you have a killer strategy - you can beat anything agains everything...
i've won countless fight with my inferno vs academy.. it all depends what you have and how you use it... there's no such thing is bad faction here - everything is balanced in it's own way... you just gotta figure it out.


Generally speaking I am agree with you. Every faction has their power.It's just that now we don't have any useful strategy against MMR,and that's one of the reasons I came here. Could you share some knowledge for a counter strategy?
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Zuraffo
Zuraffo

Tavern Dweller
posted November 28, 2006 09:49 AM

I don't play multiplayer, but I don't see how this "discussion" is constructive. I would think simply play a game to prove both sides point would do the trick.

Why are we battling with words while our HOMM sits idle?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 28, 2006 10:00 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:04, 28 Nov 2006.

In case you don't believe Inferno develops faster than academy, try to kill 25 unicorns witout loses in second week, as I said.. no way you can get better levels and more cash/resources before me, it is NOT POSSIBLE : ) Academy rarely gets logistics, too, while inferno gets it every time.

Can you answer my question about your typical week 6 army PLEASE?

About that "mms" thing, I never honestly had problems with academy, the game ended fast after a succesful rush. Ballista is one nasty toy. Do you really think I'd give you time to prepare all dwellings, guilds and artifacts?

Ohh, one more thing. I always try to get second town for more familiars, start with quite a few and get more via 2-3 additional heroes. And gated ones drain mana too, so.. Even if you still have a lot of it, at least a half of it will be drained and given to me

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 28, 2006 10:11 AM

Well,there are some heroes that could possibly disrup MMR.Some are any runemage with dwarven luck,Zoltan(kinda unreliable special) but can use cold death as well,(maybe)Wyngaal using luck->resistance and unicorns(hunters may play first,have luck,then resist spell while next to unicorns),Marbas.Come to think of it runemages with swift mind(yes I know it's rare) may cast a nice fireball on the wizard's lesser army or may have disrupt.Finally there is a chance that a rushing warlock can say something about it.As in exp destructive/sorcery/warlock's luck or enlightenment.Yrwanna or Sinitar comes to mind.Dungeon can also purchase artifacts and can get say cloak of Sylanna.
I suppose there is still risk for destructive but this way only summoning seems more reliable.No perfect counter I can think of.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted November 28, 2006 10:13 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 10:13, 28 Nov 2006.

Quote:
Hmmm look the academy hero:

16 Level:

Expert Artificer
Expert Sorcery
Expert Enlightenment
Expert Summoning Magic
Expert Destructive magic

And Kaspar:

13 Level:

Expert Necromancy
Advansed Dark Magic
Basic Attack
Advansed Enlightenment
Advansed War Machines

Only 3 Levels difference, but the academy hero is expert everywhere, and Kaspar only in Necromancy?


The skill choices for Kaspar might not be optimal, but you cannot write off these saves as faked just for that. To Expert in 5 skills you need 14-15 levels, if you choose no Abilities at all. Kaspar has 9 levels in his Skills, which would mean he had put 4 levels into his abilities. That seems to be ok.
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TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted November 28, 2006 11:47 AM

i tried out this mystic vale map on heroic ... with kaspar and Jhora...
with Jhora i got lvl 6 in 4th day , but after that i was really crippled in troops and met horde of upg gargoyles and my even though i had lvl 3 magic on myself , only stone spikes worked on them and the damage wasnt that great ... so my armys became even more crippled and i couldn't continue the quest !

on the other hand with kaspar i became lvl 10 on day 7 and on week 2 , day 2 (day 9 ) i was at the gates of the blue player with 270 skellies , 19 zombies and 27 gremlins ... i would like to post some pictures of that but i dont know how

anyway my points are :

1. the map is really rich
2. kaspar can mentain at least the same lvlup-ing as Jhora
3. at the same time he can also increase his troops really really well
4. he can rush with a nice army , a 800 hp first aid tent, that heals  150 hps per shot , and some animate deads also...

can the academy player resist such a rush ? i seriously doubt it ! can that MMR strategy work ? it might , but it can be defeated ! Super heroes like kaspar , Deleb etc. can rush it ... the reason why the MMR strategy might work on this map is the Well , which is placed in a really really good place and you can fill you mana pool over and over again !

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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted November 28, 2006 02:00 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 14:01, 28 Nov 2006.

Well my new test:

Academy vs. Haven



The Academy hero is Nathir

The Haven hero is Vittorio

This is week 6 day 3

But who is better? The mighty mage, or just well balansed hero?

Haven are with training but Academy with many mini-artifacts  

Nathir use Destructive and Dark Magic, and Vittorio only Ligcht Magic, so:




Vittorio use Magical Immunity:



Nathir use some dark magic, Vittorio's cleric cast Haste, the archangels kill some shooters:



Nathir create powerful dark magics, but he have no luck, so Vittorio have:



Let just finish the battle!




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yunless
yunless

Tavern Dweller
posted November 28, 2006 05:25 PM

Agreed. That Academy player was very bad with his units. He may have all the great units in the world but it'll take no more than abit of brains to beat his brawn.

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VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted November 28, 2006 06:18 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 18:25, 28 Nov 2006.

Man, you guys are creazy, the race isn't only the hero, maybe the wizards are  good heroes, but the academy creatures are not good, I leave the topic, I can't dispute more with you guys, you are creazy academy fans! Everything is just strategy, if you are good players you will be able to win, even with the drawen!

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yunless
yunless

Tavern Dweller
posted November 28, 2006 06:37 PM

Meh? Come again? I wouldn't say any towns' units are good. Its how you use them that makes 'em good. You could give a guy 100 blood furies against 50 gargoyles and say 50 gremlins. If the player using the Academy was good, he'd guard his gremlins with the 'goyles and snipe/magic out the furies. You get the point. =p Just my 2 cents worth.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 28, 2006 07:03 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 19:04, 28 Nov 2006.

By the way.. 86wyp scares us with his titans.. while an excruciating strike-user can kill two per their action (at least). Level 7 units suck vs. inferno, if only the inferno player can get mark of the damned and excruciating strike. Weakening strike is a good add-on, since I mainly focus on dark magic.

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Istari
Istari


Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
posted November 28, 2006 09:32 PM

Play already!

So 86wyp introduces a new strategy and suggests that the academy is the strongest faction.  This is great, so far everything I've read has had the concensus that the academy was the worst.  This was a much needed strategy to introduce... great job and thank you.  86wyp also said he was looking for advice on how to beat his new strategy.  Towerlord seems to think he has the answer to that.  So why are you two arguing with each other, you may the answer to the other's question.  Why don't you play and find out.  

p.s heads up 86wyp, Towerlord loves Sub. Treasures and really is a good player from what I've read.
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Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 28, 2006 11:29 PM

Sub. Treasures emphasizes the Marksmen too much - Two Castles and a level 2 dwelling. When we play (my friends) on that map Haven is banned. No wonder if TL thinks he is a good player with Haven if he only plays that map...

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Dungeonian
Dungeonian


Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
posted November 29, 2006 01:20 AM
Edited by Dungeonian at 02:09, 29 Nov 2006.

  Hi , 86wyp ! I'm glad to see that there are players in the World who use their mind , not a stupid might-is-right strategy . I can agree that Academy is a serious opponent to Dungeon , but I also can't understand one thing in your first example , preciously saying WHY Yrwanna wast three level ( at least ) for useless Summoning magic , I'm confused . Where was her warlocks luck , where is her Expert sorcery and why she had those pitiful 37 minotaurs and didn't split her Grand Matrones in 3 stacks ( big one + 1 + 1 )? Those two sole Ladies are very important , they can negate Counterspell , the most hellish wizards ability for the warlock ! Also Yrwanna's player wasn't wise if he/she used single-targeted spells , its could be affected by magic mirror and reflected to Yrwanna's own troops . Only Emprowed meteor shower ( if it's absent , cold ring or fireball ) , hopely with a luck , is what Yrwanna should cast against Jhora .
  You shouldn't think that your strategy is poor , but in case with Yrwanna I'm sure that I could play better . However you had dealt nice job and include a fresh spray in Heroes world

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 29, 2006 02:03 AM

Hehe,you are insightful Dungeonian
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86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 29, 2006 04:17 AM

hey there

First of all I appologize for my offensiveness, glad to see so many advices you provided, they are intelligent and I will translate those words to Chinese forums.

TowerLoad
You used kaspar very well, I can't wait to see the screenshots, can somebody help him upload them?

Dungeonian:
I love dungeon too and personally I wish Yrwanna could have won the game Indeed that dungeon players made mistakes in that game, one of them was learning summoning. Your suggestions are right and can help a lot. But in that game, Jhora was just too powerful that dungeon wouldn't even get a chance to win. She didn't even use counterspell, just motw+implosion and resurrection and phoenix and Yrwanna was over. After the battle Jhora just lost 20% of her army, What a rape!


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raistlinz
raistlinz

Tavern Dweller
posted November 29, 2006 04:31 AM

Quote:
Man, you guys are creazy, the race isn't only the hero, maybe the wizards are  good heroes, but the academy creatures are not good, I leave the topic, I can't dispute more with you guys, you are creazy academy fans! Everything is just strategy, if you are good players you will be able to win, even with the drawen!


Nothing crazy. And plz post the map you've played.

The big problem is:if it's d3w6, why academy's army so small? The haven army is ok--really strong. But if I use academy, 1st I won't wait until you fully developed, 2nd, there will be 200+ Master Gremlins, 100+ Obsidian Gargoyle at least, and 5 Rakshasa Rani?

No, I'm not crazy, but there is something wrong.
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86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 29, 2006 06:22 AM

Quote:
In case you don't believe Inferno develops faster than academy, try to kill 25 unicorns witout loses in second week, as I said.. no way you can get better levels and more cash/resources before me, it is NOT POSSIBLE : ) Academy rarely gets logistics, too, while inferno gets it every time.

Can you answer my question about your typical week 6 army PLEASE?

About that "mms" thing, I never honestly had problems with academy, the game ended fast after a succesful rush. Ballista is one nasty toy. Do you really think I'd give you time to prepare all dwellings, guilds and artifacts?

Ohh, one more thing. I always try to get second town for more familiars, start with quite a few and get more via 2-3 additional heroes. And gated ones drain mana too, so.. Even if you still have a lot of it, at least a half of it will be drained and given to me


Go to The Heroes Round Table
http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4930&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
and you will find more information about this strategy.

I tested inferno a lot recently cause I think inferno may have the biggest chance to beat this strategy.I agree inferno can be very fast at the beginning, however I can't say inferno can win academy, because in all games inferno lost to academy.We will have games between deleb and academy heros, and we are waiting for the results.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted November 29, 2006 12:53 PM

inferno is underestimated, but it has very interesting counters for many strategies. Like mana drain, which can completely cripple the might heroes with low mana! Say, knight - which cant do a thing about mass dark magic crippling his army because familiars dried him totally..

In case you want to test their power, dont forget about the most important things: hellfire (you'll love cerberi and succubi thanks to it ), mark of the damned+excruciating strike+weakening strike (no need to care for enemy level 7s anymore, the hero will slay them alone as they act), boosted familiar ammounts+gating(obvious - less mana for him, more mana for you), soldier's luck (nightmares become a great disabler of creatures with low hp), tent+ballista (to own the map).

The Deleb's ballista acts like a 8th stack - a very powerful one -     scoring tons of damage, making up for inferno's lack of shooters. And it's free and has 1000 hp. Since damage of the ballista is based on attack and knowledge, and those are demon lords' prime stats, it is simply a must even if you don't use deleb.

Use dark magic a lot - the academy hero will have to choose between cleansing and offensive spells, and I doubt offensive spells will be enough to stop you if his entire army gets affected by suffering/slow/confusion/any other dark spell.

Gating is powerful too, in 1.4 it grants +50% of your creatures, and with swarming gate - a chance to summon double ammount! It's never wrong if 30 nightmares summon another 30. : O

Ah yes, Pit Lords are GREAT fighters, so try to get teleport assault. Paired with excruciating strike, the titans will fall extremely fast. They also OHKO the phoenix.

Finally, power of speed casts mass haste of advanced (i think) level. It will make up for your lack of boosting spells and make nightmares  act 3 times more frequent than usual initiative 10 creature.

Good luck, Inferno is a powerhouse if played the correct way.  

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b0rsuk
b0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted November 29, 2006 01:08 PM

Haven Marksmen + Antimagic should defeat it...
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