Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5
Thread: Academy:The Best Race in HOMM5 This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted November 27, 2006 01:29 PM

it depends on what map you played ...if it was a really really rich one, than you could easily do that ! Mass Cleansing is not a must have ! and there is a lower probability for you to get mass confusion than for me to get mass cleansing especially since you don't get native dark magic in your town ! also @ 13 spell power Implosion is not a threat for 500 markmen ...

13 * 40 = 520  ... lets suppose you cast motw(you waste one round with that) ~ 1000 +

500 marksmen /w vitality have 6000 hp ! so you must cast several implosions to kill them !

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 27, 2006 01:37 PM
Edited by 86wyp at 13:47, 27 Nov 2006.

Quote:
it depends on what map you played ...if it was a really really rich one, than you could easily do that ! Mass Cleansing is not a must have ! and there is a lower probability for you to get mass confusion than for me to get mass cleansing especially since you don't get native dark magic in your town ! also @ 13 spell power Implosion is not a threat for 500 markmen ...

13 * 40 = 520  ... lets suppose you cast motw(you waste one round with that) ~ 1000 +

500 marksmen /w vitality have 6000 hp ! so you must cast several implosions to kill them !


The chance? you must know that Academy tower may also have deflect missile, the total chance for Academy hero to learn either dm or confusion is much large than for Haven to learn cleansing, as I believe.The map was mystic's vale, is it REALLYREALLY rich? personally i don't think so.How may mass cleansing can you cast with a few knowledge?

ok you said you would put marksman in one stack, then let me tell you another small trick in Academy: motw+wasp swarm. Believe me your marksman won't be able to take even a single move in the battle.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted November 27, 2006 02:03 PM

i didn't say i put them in one stack , i was only pointing out the benefits of one marksmen stack ... the best way to do it is : a big one of 400 , and a small one of 100 ... the big one takes out your large stacks , and the small one takes out the lower stacks . mass deflect missile still lets over 1000 dmg pass , which still takes out any stack of yours !

if you do that ( casting wasp swarm over and over again), you will be doing almost 100 dmg , and since the mage's attack and defense are pathetic compared to the knight,  my other troops(paladins , imperial griffins ) will be boosted with righteous might and haste and kick your pathetic (att/def) academic troops !

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 27, 2006 02:17 PM

Quote:
i didn't say i put them in one stack , i was only pointing out the benefits of one marksmen stack ... the best way to do it is : a big one of 400 , and a small one of 100 ... the big one takes out your large stacks , and the small one takes out the lower stacks . mass deflect missile still lets over 1000 dmg pass , which still takes out any stack of yours !

if you do that ( casting wasp swarm over and over again), you will be doing almost 100 dmg , and since the mage's attack and defense are pathetic compared to the knight,  my other troops(paladins , imperial griffins ) will be boosted with righteous might and haste and kick your pathetic (att/def) academic troops !


a big one of 400? ok then that 400 marksman are taken out of the battle because of that trick. another 100? won't survive after a couple of implosion or phoenix.Then what do you have? The academy army are not pathetic at all, with artifacts the Academy army would be very powerful, you can take a look at the titans in the first battle, to beat heavn I only need to add some health or defence instead of magic reduction.and did you forget that you won't have enough mana to cast mass cleansing more than a few times? your slowed confused and weakened haven army won't be able to deal as much damage as you thought.

Why should I wait you to get your 500 marksman? The truth is in hard level game Academy can rush haven in three weeks with a little less army and the same powerful magic! How may marksman would you have in 20 days?
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
RaZmuShaDoW
RaZmuShaDoW


Known Hero
The Sync Bug Hunter
posted November 27, 2006 02:24 PM

Relax boyz

Just try a duel.

Oriental Master of Academy MultiMagic in the red corner.

And The Admire of the Deadly Strategy of Zounds of Dirty Marksmans in the blue corner.

I'm waiting for the results


p.s. respect for the creator of this topic.
____________
What’s the point of being a renegade if you still have to pay taxes?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 03:02 PM
Edited by Elvin at 15:09, 27 Nov 2006.

Stay out of this Towerlord you don't understand or appreciate the potential of this strategy.I have been playing academy for quite some time and although I didn't think of this strategy I almost always got 2 schools leaving other skills in the process until I had fully built them up.That's what is academy's strength,I can tell that much.Just observe that many of its units are tanks with resistances(along with the frail damage dealers).Not to mention that mini arties come into play fast even though you will have less rakshasas and colossi.The titan part may be an exaggeration but you don't really need them if you go this route.
I thank 86wyp for sharing that with us

Edit:
I admit I am sceptical about the pwning of Dougal but it may be possible.
____________
Juoksentelisinkohan?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted November 27, 2006 03:04 PM

Quote:
Quote:
i didn't say i put them in one stack , i was only pointing out the benefits of one marksmen stack ... the best way to do it is : a big one of 400 , and a small one of 100 ... the big one takes out your large stacks , and the small one takes out the lower stacks . mass deflect missile still lets over 1000 dmg pass , which still takes out any stack of yours !

if you do that ( casting wasp swarm over and over again), you will be doing almost 100 dmg , and since the mage's attack and defense are pathetic compared to the knight,  my other troops(paladins , imperial griffins ) will be boosted with righteous might and haste and kick your pathetic (att/def) academic troops !


a big one of 400? ok then that 400 marksman are taken out of the battle because of that trick. another 100? won't survive after a couple of implosion or phoenix.Then what do you have? The academy army are not pathetic at all, with artifacts the Academy army would be very powerful, you can take a look at the titans in the first battle, to beat heavn I only need to add some health or defence instead of magic reduction.and did you forget that you won't have enough mana to cast mass cleansing more than a few times? your slowed confused and weakened haven army won't be able to deal as much damage as you thought.

Why should I wait you to get your 500 marksman? The truth is in hard level game Academy can rush haven in three weeks with a little less army and the same powerful magic! How may marksman would you have in 20 days?


man you are talking nonsense ... if you cast wasp swarm , over and over again , you cannot cast implosion and slow ... cause if you do the 400 marksmen get to act and it's game over . so choose what you cast dont say you cast them all cause you dont have the time !

My usual week 6 , day 1(that's when i attack) army setup @ hard diff is:

600+ marksmen
~70 - 100 squires(the squires are important only for shielding, not for dealing any damage)
~40 imperial griffins
14 paladins

stats :

~15-20
~15-20
~5
~8-10
@ lvl 17-18-19

in week 5 it would be 10 paladins,500 marksmen , 30 imperial and some squires from the money left !
with the secondary skills i mentioned , i would get uber bonuses ( 15% @ attack , 30% @ defense , +1 dmg @ Bfrenzy ,+2 hp @ vitality , 20% @ archery , + maybe even some retribution ...)

Add to these bonuses the bonuses from the att/def from knight to wizard... I'd say the aproximated total bonus to my troops against yours would be at least 100 % ! it would be like five paladins would be as strong as your five titans , only that i'd have ten or more...

And you don't know the tricks of Haven : splitting 1 paladin and keeping it for the purpose of healing marksmen (so bye bye confusion), squires shield the allies so your titans will do only 25% of their normal dmg @range , Inquisitors haste counters your slow , Battle Dive and so on !

What can you do against that ? I guess a rush is your best option... and if it is day 20 it would be really dangerous ... but i would be smart enough to stay 2 more days in my castle , let you wonder a little trough my land ... and then recruit my week 4 troops and come back after you !
I dont think you would dare to attack me inside my walls !

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted November 27, 2006 03:16 PM

Heh I'm Necro player, and Academy hater

This is simple test. Creatures, and hero test:

Orson vs. Razzak


Let the battle begin!



5 minutes later:






Necro Win!

So, I think, that everything is just strategy.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 27, 2006 03:18 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i didn't say i put them in one stack , i was only pointing out the benefits of one marksmen stack ... the best way to do it is : a big one of 400 , and a small one of 100 ... the big one takes out your large stacks , and the small one takes out the lower stacks . mass deflect missile still lets over 1000 dmg pass , which still takes out any stack of yours !

if you do that ( casting wasp swarm over and over again), you will be doing almost 100 dmg , and since the mage's attack and defense are pathetic compared to the knight,  my other troops(paladins , imperial griffins ) will be boosted with righteous might and haste and kick your pathetic (att/def) academic troops !


a big one of 400? ok then that 400 marksman are taken out of the battle because of that trick. another 100? won't survive after a couple of implosion or phoenix.Then what do you have? The academy army are not pathetic at all, with artifacts the Academy army would be very powerful, you can take a look at the titans in the first battle, to beat heavn I only need to add some health or defence instead of magic reduction.and did you forget that you won't have enough mana to cast mass cleansing more than a few times? your slowed confused and weakened haven army won't be able to deal as much damage as you thought.

Why should I wait you to get your 500 marksman? The truth is in hard level game Academy can rush haven in three weeks with a little less army and the same powerful magic! How may marksman would you have in 20 days?


man you are talking nonsense ... if you cast wasp swarm , over and over again , you cannot cast implosion and slow ... cause if you do the 400 marksmen get to act and it's game over . so choose what you cast dont say you cast them all cause you dont have the time !

My usual week 6 , day 1(that's when i attack) army setup @ hard diff is:

600+ marksmen
~70 - 100 squires(the squires are important only for shielding, not for dealing any damage)
~40 imperial griffins
14 paladins

stats :

~15-20
~15-20
~5
~8-10
@ lvl 17-18-19

in week 5 it would be 10 paladins,500 marksmen , 30 imperial and some squires from the money left !
with the secondary skills i mentioned , i would get uber bonuses ( 15% @ attack , 30% @ defense , +1 dmg @ Bfrenzy ,+2 hp @ vitality , 20% @ archery , + maybe even some retribution ...)

Add to these bonuses the bonuses from the att/def from knight to wizard... I'd say the aproximated total bonus to my troops against yours would be at least 100 % ! it would be like five paladins would be as strong as your five titans , only that i'd have ten or more...

And you don't know the tricks of Haven : splitting 1 paladin and keeping it for the purpose of healing marksmen (so bye bye confusion), squires shield the allies so your titans will do only 25% of their normal dmg @range , Inquisitors haste counters your slow , Battle Dive and so on !

What can you do against that ? I guess a rush is your best option... and if it is day 20 it would be really dangerous ... but i would be smart enough to stay 2 more days in my castle , let you wonder a little trough my land ... and then recruit my week 4 troops and come back after you !
I dont think you would dare to attack me inside my walls !


I am really sorry but I have tired of talking with you.Maybe this strategy just doesn't suit you, that's fine to me.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 03:19 PM
Edited by Elvin at 15:20, 27 Nov 2006.

@VokialBG
That was the point.Otherwise academy's units are lacking in fighting skills.
____________
Juoksentelisinkohan?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 27, 2006 03:23 PM

Interesting! Can you explain some datails of this battle? what time? what level? the skills? the strategy? (btw I only see 200skelies why?)
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
TowerLord
TowerLord


Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
posted November 27, 2006 03:28 PM

Quote:
Stay out of this Towerlord you don't understand or appreciate the potential of this strategy.I have been playing academy for quite some time and although I didn't think of this strategy I almost always got 2 schools leaving other skills in the process until I had fully built them up.That's what is academy's strength,I can tell that much.Just observe that many of its units are tanks with resistances(along with the frail damage dealers).Not to mention that mini arties come into play fast even though you will have less rakshasas and colossi.The titan part may be an exaggeration but you don't really need them if you go this route.
I thank 86wyp for sharing that with us


hey Elvin ... what strategy did he bring ? powercreeping ? this is not a strategy ! every town can do it ... it's like the powercreeping you do with dungeon killing everything with the harpies , getting levels up really fast , or like the powercreeping you do with deleb and his ballista or kaspar and his tent !

and also he is showing me saves against weak players and he says academy is best ... i dont see the strategy in that ! I tried Jhora in this new versions of the game, and I liked the eldritch arrow, but i just couldn't decide what magic to take for her ... I would like to go the destructive way, but it's not that great since it's not native to academy

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
raistlinz
raistlinz

Tavern Dweller
posted November 27, 2006 03:34 PM

Quote:
hey Elvin ... what strategy did he bring ? powercreeping ? this is not a strategy ! every town can do it ... it's like the powercreeping you do with dungeon killing everything with the harpies , getting levels up really fast , or like the powercreeping you do with deleb and his ballista or kaspar and his tent !

and also he is showing me saves against weak players and he says academy is best ... i dont see the strategy in that ! I tried Jhora in this new versions of the game, and I liked the eldritch arrow, but i just couldn't decide what magic to take for her ... I would like to go the destructive way, but it's not that great since it's not native to academy


I wish I could play a hotseat with you and show you the power of the strategy. And by the way, you don't see is just "you" don't see, nothing more. You can't use academy, that's ok, but curse the player who can do better than you? Do you really have the right attitude to play any games?

Maybe it's time that you can stop judging the thing which you would never understand and do more training.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 27, 2006 03:37 PM

Powercreeping but focusing on multiple schools of magic and getting artifact merchants and guilds instead of dwellings.And getting mini arties at the same time.
Yes the Yrwanna hero was... but the fight with Vittorio shows something.I won't get into academy pwnage theory but I can tell that this strategy is good.I don't care about the saves,the skill of others etc as I know they may possibly be inexperienced but if both players are of equal skill this can prove formiddable.Notice that not many other factions can merit this way or as much by going experience all the way and skipping dweelings.
I said I am sceptical about some points
____________
Juoksentelisinkohan?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted November 27, 2006 03:42 PM
Edited by VokialBG at 17:17, 27 Nov 2006.

OK

1. I use only Dark and Licht magic, Raise Dead - only 1 time
2. Academy are weak without shooters, so you must kull all shooters very quick.
3. You can kill the titan with the Harm Touch Ability.
4. You must hold The Gargoyles and the Golems with the Skeleton Archers, Zombies and The Spectres, the Incorporeal ability is very useful here, and do you see how I block the golems with my creatures, this can help, but not for longer, so if you kill all shooters quickly you will be the winner.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Shauku83
Shauku83


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 27, 2006 04:03 PM

From my experience Academy needs atleast 2 magic schools, 3 gives you such a wide arsenal of spells that it is unbelievable. I would prefer Light Magic & hopefully Resurrection over Destructive in most cases. But Light Magic may not be the best in creeping.. Academy only gets 1 spell less on Dark & Destructive than those Towns that are native to them, so Academy really can take any school they want.

86wyp, how do you level the hero excatly, I mean which magic schools do you prefer? Do you choose the schools after you have built the Mage Guild 5 or do you just take the chance?

This is the most interesting topic for a looong time. Thanks!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted November 27, 2006 04:30 PM

Hey 86wyp

Nice to meet ya man , good to see some Chinese folks here Any intersting strategy i've never tried it but it sounds very risky anyway letz stop talking and start playing why not bring one of ur ace chinese guys to play some of our guys(play me ) and see how good that strategy is ( btw any guys speak english there except you??)

____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
VokialBG
VokialBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted November 27, 2006 04:34 PM

If you want another example:

this is duel mode, Orson vs Jhora:




You can cast Frenzy on the Mages:



then they will attack the gremlins:



And the gremlins will retaliate, it is good to use some dark magic, like
Weakness, Confusion and Suffering, cast Confusion on the mages



Very, very, very good tactics is to cast Mark of the Necromanser to the gremlins, than cast Decay, with the Liches on the gremlins = unlimited mana source:



Attack the Mages (if they are still alive ) with the Spectres, and kill the golems with the zombies and the skels



You do not need Raise Dead!!!!!!!!

OK, something else?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
raistlinz
raistlinz

Tavern Dweller
posted November 27, 2006 04:46 PM
Edited by raistlinz at 16:48, 27 Nov 2006.

First, Orson is really strong in duel mode(dark magic),second, Jhora here didn't master the summon/dark magic.

My suggestion is start a map, make good use of the academy(jhora/nur/Havez/Nathir),learn at least 2 school, then fight(time limits will be 5 weeks, heroic level).

PS: to nevermind
It's night time in our country, I'll go and spread the words, hope it can be worked out.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
86wyp
86wyp


Adventuring Hero
posted November 27, 2006 04:51 PM

Quote:
OK

1. I use only Dark and Licht magic, Raise Dead - only 1 time
2. Academy are weak without shooters, so you must kull all shooters very quick.
3. You can kill the titan with the Harm Touch Ability.
4. You must hold The Gargoyles and the Golems with the Skeleton Archers, Zombies and The Spectres, the Incorporeal ability is very useful here, and do you see how I block the golems with my creatures, this can help, but nat for longer, so if you kill all shooters quickly you will be the winner.


Good!I know you are a smart player, but one can never have knowledge of everything right? Let's see a another game between Academy hero Nathir and Nocropolis hero Kaspar!It is a hard level game on Mystic' Vale.

The two heroes met each other in the middle of the map on the 4th week.The Academy player didn't take all of his army with him, actualy there was no  creature higer than level 4 in Academy's army. On contrary, The Necropolis got lichs, wraith(counter phoenix) and 713 archers(4th week in hard level game this is a fine number).Kaspar even found Unicorn Horn Bow! WTF!So what was the result? go find out!







Pause a little Can any of you guess how could Nathir beat Kaspar? Of course! The answer is MAGIC!







As you see, Necropolis could do nothing to defend Nathir's notw+implosion, raise dead no longer work. wraith could kill phoenix with one hit, but Nathir summoned the phoenix in the last part of the battle.

Hard to believe? Me too. But all I posted are real. if you check our forum http://gamebbs.enet.com.cn/forum-96-1.html  you will find all these games on it. No matter what you think, The titans is real, this game is real too. Is Academy the best race? Hard to say yet. But till now, we haven't found any effective strategy against MMR.Thus we say that MMR for Academy is the most powerful strategy we know.
I will be very proud if any of you practice this strategy. And we hope that you can give some clues to help us counter MMR.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.1020 seconds