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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Indipendance of Kosovo?
Thread: Indipendance of Kosovo? This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT»
baklava
baklava


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posted January 10, 2008 01:23 PM

If there was an option of everyone staying equal at Kosovo, along with no monuments being destroyed or no pogroms committed, then I sincerely wouldn't give a crap about who owns it on paper; Serbs, Albanians, Kosovars, or the Japanese.
If there was an option of quelling the national hatred from both sides, I'd pick it.
But we're all aware that's impossible. So we're kind of stuck.

It's healthy to think about it once in a while, though. Makes you wonder about some things.
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Vidoja
Vidoja


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posted January 11, 2008 08:11 PM

Quote:
If there was an option of everyone staying equal at Kosovo, along with no monuments being destroyed or no pogroms committed, then I sincerely wouldn't give a crap about who owns it on paper; Serbs, Albanians, Kosovars, or the Japanese.
If there was an option of quelling the national hatred from both sides, I'd pick it.
But we're all aware that's impossible. So we're kind of stuck.

It's healthy to think about it once in a while, though. Makes you wonder about some things.


I wouldn't let Kosovo leave Serbia even if it was so, but I would really like to have peace with them, live all in a same state, heck I wouldn't say anything even if an Albanian was the president. That is what I would like most.
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baklava
baklava


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posted January 12, 2008 12:26 AM

We've tried that with Yugoslavia.
Didn't work out so well
And we were all Slavs there.

So, if it's so hard for members of just one people to live in the same country, it's certainly impossible for members of such two different ones as Serbs and Albanians... Besides, there's too much national hatred.

No, it couldn't work unfortunately. :\ I hate to be a pessimist, but that's the way it is.
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russ
russ


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posted January 14, 2008 09:16 PM

@Vlad
Quote:
The only side who will gain anything will be Russia, which has its own local and global interests.
Ok... I am tired of hearing Russia being mentioned in this thread in this way.

What exactly will Russia get? Can you describe it?

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Seraphim
Seraphim


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posted January 14, 2008 10:37 PM

Quote:
We've tried that with Yugoslavia.
Didn't work out so well
And we were all Slavs there.

So, if it's so hard for members of just one people to live in the same country, it's certainly impossible for members of such two different ones as Serbs and Albanians... Besides, there's too much national hatred.

No, it couldn't work unfortunately. :\ I hate to be a pessimist, but that's the way it is.


Meh..I had to post this really even if I had sworn to keep away from political threads but if you like the 10.887 km in square of kosovo than why does not your big brother give their 17 milon km in square a piece for you?

Aka: NO offense to russians.
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baklava
baklava


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posted January 14, 2008 11:25 PM
Edited by baklava at 23:27, 14 Jan 2008.

Because most Serbs, unlike most Albanians, do not view Kosovo as just a piece of territory, but as a cultural and spiritual center, much like Jerusalem for Jewish people.
Why didn't the superpowers grant the Jews a territory somewhere in USA or Russia or France or west Africa? It would certainly make things much easier. But Israel is the Jewish holy land, so they gave it to them.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


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posted January 14, 2008 11:37 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 00:53, 15 Jan 2008.

Quote:
@Vlad
Quote:
The only side who will gain anything will be Russia, which has its own local and global interests.
Ok... I am tired of hearing Russia being mentioned in this thread in this way.

What exactly will Russia get? Can you describe it?
Dmitry Rogozin, new Russian ambassador to NATO, explained it very well. By the way, wiki has an interesting entry about him (featuring a photo with general Mladic, war criminal). In brief, it's about establishing the rules regarding secessionist movements and asking the US to adhere to those rules in the future. Here's an analysis from Newsweek: "[...]to forcibly separate the 90 percent ethnic Albanian and largely Muslim province from an unwilling Serbia will undermine stability in the Balkans and set a dangerous precedent for other separatist movements."

As for Russian local interests, here's a recent statement by a Serbian official (one of many). Another goal achieved by siding with Serbia in this matter is maintaining Russian influence, which will be diminished if Serbia chooses a pro-European path.

If Nikolic wins the upcoming elections, he may even decide to keep his promise and offer Serbian territory for Russian military bases. Previously he had made it clear he would rather see Serbia as "a Russian province" than "a European colony".

Isolation of Serbia would be the total price, while this is probably just the change.
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antipaladin
antipaladin


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posted January 14, 2008 11:50 PM

Quote:
Because most Serbs, unlike most Albanians, do not view Kosovo as just a piece of territory, but as a cultural and spiritual center, much like Jerusalem for Jewish people.
Why didn't the superpowers grant the Jews a territory somewhere in USA or Russia or France or west Africa? It would certainly make things much easier. But Israel is the Jewish holy land, so they gave it to them.


actually in the biging of the 20th centoury they wanted to give Uganda to us,we deniyaed...what ungadna has to do with us?
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Vidoja
Vidoja


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posted January 15, 2008 05:30 PM

Quote:
If Nikolic wins the upcoming elections, he may even decide to keep his promise and offer Serbian territory for Russian military bases. Previously he had made it clear he would rather see Serbia as "a Russian province" than "a European colony".
Quote:


The US has its base on Kosovo. And if we have the Russian base in Serbia we'll be the most protected country in the world. USA and Russia will fight for justice, so I'm not worried that they would do anything. Unless ofcourse they're unjustiful.
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Vidoja
Vidoja


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posted January 15, 2008 05:32 PM

Quote:
If Nikolic wins the upcoming elections, he may even decide to keep his promise and offer Serbian territory for Russian military bases. Previously he had made it clear he would rather see Serbia as "a Russian province" than "a European colony".
Quote:


The US has its base on Kosovo. And if we have the Russian base in Serbia we'll be the most protected country in the world. USA and Russia will fight for justice, so I'm not worried that they would do anything. Unless ofcourse they're unjustiful.
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russ
russ


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posted January 23, 2008 11:02 PM

The link doesn't work.
Quote:
Another goal achieved by siding with Serbia in this matter is maintaining Russian influence, which will be diminished if Serbia chooses a pro-European path.

If Nikolic wins the upcoming elections, he may even decide to keep his promise and offer Serbian territory for Russian military bases.
Ok, so if Russia is struggling so hard for influence and to place its military bases, then why did it leave its bases in Lurdes, Cuba and Namran, Viernam? Here is the closest translation of what Putin said about those military bases: "Why the **** do we need them?" ("Nahui oni nam nujni?") Yes, I know that Russia will most likely end up placing a base in Serbia and that it wants to make its ties closer with Serbia, but I think it will be done more to actually protect Seria against NATO (and to keep Russians and Serbs who want it happy) as it is for acheiving any kind of military objective or for securing its zones of influence. If Serbia elects a EU-oriented president, it will definitely lose Kosovo despite whatever bull**** the candidates might be saying. They know very well what will happen and they are only saying all that "no independence" bull**** for all those Serbs who can't add 2 and 2 together.

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mvassilev
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posted January 23, 2008 11:57 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 23:57, 23 Jan 2008.

Lol, Russ. Just lol. I myself am a Russian, and what you're saying is nonsense. Who gave up the Cuban and Vietnamese bases? I'll tell you: it's not Putin. Russia has entered a new phase in history. And it wants to expand. Of course Russia wants bases in Serbia. It wants to spread its influence and flex its muscles. Russia has been playing politics in the Balkans for ages. And it still hasn't changed.

And Putin may not admit that he wants the bases, but he does.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


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posted January 24, 2008 01:23 AM
Edited by Vlaad at 01:24, 24 Jan 2008.

Quote:
The link doesn't work.
My links? Just checked and they all work fine...?

Military cooperation is just one of the points I listed, and it's the most radical option.
Quote:
If Serbia elects a EU-oriented president, it will definitely lose Kosovo despite whatever bull**** the candidates might be saying. They know very well what will happen and they are only saying all that "no independence" bull**** for all those Serbs who can't add 2 and 2 together.
Serbia is going to lose Kosovo no matter what - the question is what price we'll pay and which path the nation will choose after the loss...
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Vidoja
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posted January 24, 2008 06:36 PM

Quote:
Serbia is going to lose Kosovo no matter what - the question is what price we'll pay and which path the nation will choose after the loss...


Yeah, your for Jovanovic allright(PS: That 'surprise' thing that he said was going to happen at the elections obviously didn't). Optimism is what you don't have. And about those bases: If America and Russia both have army bases in Serbia, Serbia'll be the most protected country. (judging that both the USA and Russia are for world peace) I thank all the Russian people for standing for us.
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baklava
baklava


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posted January 24, 2008 09:01 PM

Quote:
Optimism is what you don't have.

Well we all have to choose between optimism and common sense sooner or later... :\
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russ
russ


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posted January 25, 2008 06:26 PM
Edited by russ at 18:27, 25 Jan 2008.

@Mvassiliev
Quote:
Lol, Russ. Just lol. I myself am a Russian, and what you're saying is nonsense. Who gave up the Cuban and Vietnamese bases? I'll tell you: it's not Putin.
You are Russian? Wow, that's unfortunate. Do us all a favor and next time you try to use your ignorance and your lack of knowledge in an argument, don't tell them you are Russian.

@Vlaad
I think you are right, but don't you think Serbia at least has a chance of keeping Kosovo with Russia on its side?

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mvassilev
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posted January 25, 2008 09:48 PM

Quote:
You are Russian? Wow, that's unfortunate. Do us all a favor and next time you try to use your ignorance and your lack of knowledge in an argument, don't tell them you are Russian.
Ignorance... and lack of knowledge. Sure doesn't sound like me.
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Vlaad
Vlaad


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posted January 27, 2008 08:28 PM
Edited by Vlaad at 20:38, 27 Jan 2008.

Quote:
@Vlaad
I think you are right, but don't you think Serbia at least has a chance of keeping Kosovo with Russia on its side?
I wish you were right, but the independence of new countries does not depend on the UN, so the Russian veto cannot hinder the process. The US and the EU have already announced their unilateral recognition of Kosovo. Here's a recent statement, one of many:
Quote:
BERLIN -- Frank Walter Steinmeier has hinted that Berlin will recognize a unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence.

The chief of the German diplomacy was speaking for the media in his country when he said that Germany now "has no illusions, knowing that a negotiated settlement it hoped for cannot be reached."

"For this reason, if Kosovo declares independence, we will act the same as the large majority of EU countries," Steinmeier said Sunday.

He added that Berlin was acting carefully until now " not because it does not know what to do, but in order not to further burden the current situation in Serbia."

"Therefore, show some understanding for the fact I do not wish to make announcements, but we certainly know what to do," he said, when asked what Germany's reaction to a declaration of Kosovo's independence by the province's ethnic Albanians will be.

Steinmeier also praised his own country's behavior during the negotiations between Belgrade and Priština on Kosovo's future status.

"We have not asked hypothetical questions so far. Unlike some other capitals, we have not made untimely statements that fanned the flames," he told reporters.

"But, we are no longer able to halt history. Instead, we must adopt a position on what happens next, and many things indicate we will see a declaration of Kosovo's independence soon," Steinmeier concluded.


Even the PM of Montenegro, our traditional ally, has admitted his country will recognize the province's independence:
Quote:
PODGORICA -- Milo Đukanović says that "in the end Montenegro just as the rest of the region" will recognize an independent Kosovo.

"We have chosen to be a part of the European Union, and will have to honor its decisions. Naturally, Montenegro is not taking the role of the leader when it comes to Kosovo's independence," said the chairman of the ruling Democratic Party of Socialists (DPS) and Montenegro's former president and prime minister, who led his country to renewed independence in 2006.

"But, in the end, we will recognize Kosovo's independence just as other regional countries will," Đukanović added in an interview for a Sarajevo television outlet.

Asked about the second round of presidential elections in Serbia, Đukanović said he hoped that Serbia will take a pro-European path.

As for the good election result of the Radicals' candidate, Tomislav Nikolić, considered an ultra-nationalist who would lead the country to renewed isolation, the Montenegrin leader said this was in part down to Prime Minister Vojislav Koštunica and President Boris Tadić's actions.

"They created a space for Nikolić with their clumsy policies, especially regarding [Serbia's] national interests," he said.

"Everything tells us Serbia ought to be the engine to take the region forward and toward Europe. However, due to some well-known issues from the recent past, it is now the last carriage in that train," Đukanović was blunt.


What Russia can do is prevent Kosovo's acceptance to the United Nations and other international organizations, trying to keep the province somewhat Serbian - de jure... but not de facto. I'm not sure it is in anybody's best interest.

The point is Kosovo's independence seems inevitable at the moment, so what happens next is what's important. Here's a short analysis by W. Montgomery (former US ambassador to Belgrade):
Quote:
— At a Council of Ministers Meeting on January 28, the EU will decide whether to invite Serbia to sign a Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA) and whether at this time to authorize an EU Mission to Kosovo.

— On February 3, the Second Round of elections for the Serbian Presidency will be held and the voters will choose between current President Boris Tadić and Tomislav Nikolić, the “caretaker” of the Radical Party.

— Within a couple of weeks following the Serbian election, the Kosovo Albanians will issue their Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) and individual countries will begin to recognize it. The Serbian government will then respond.

The sum total of all of the above will determine whether Serbia continues on a path (slowly or rapidly) towards integration into “Europe” or alternatively, becomes a “Belarus of the Balkans,” belligerently looking East instead of West and in some state of confrontation with the EU, the United States and its new “neighbor,” Kosovo.
You can read the rest here.




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antipaladin
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posted January 27, 2008 10:30 PM
Edited by antipaladin at 22:48, 27 Jan 2008.


Indipendance of Kosovo? i decided that since Gaza strip and the palastine people also should recive a kind of indepdence,in gaza,and the west bank, so should kosovo.
they wont tyran the serbs.
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Vidoja
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posted January 28, 2008 01:25 PM

You don't know the situation, trust me. Telling me that the killers of my friends are for Kosovo indipendance doesn't tell me anything new. Nor do the Montenegrian traitors who had failed their proud ancestors. I really think I can't talk to you about Kosovo. But Serbia won't let Kosovo be indipendant.
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