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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [WIP]NTF, New Town Framework
Thread: [WIP]NTF, New Town Framework This thread is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · NEXT»
TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 11:17 AM
Edited by TSoD at 17:33, 10 Sep 2009.

[WIP]NTF, New Town Framework

Home
Welcome all ! This thread is reserved to people who wants to add a new faction in the game. Only one, for now (Let's try to create and finish one before beginning thousands of projects). And yes, entirely add a faction, not replacing an existing one


Your participation !
Before doing anything, we need ideas. They must be original but not too much, must be realizable and seducing. We also need motivated people like Psatkha and I to concretize this project. I know some of you have real talents in creating NCF creatures, for finality of details, originality of descriptions, art making, balancing creatures, and so on. We also need artists that can, after having found the global theme of the town, make the buildings plans, draw some artworks to really feel the theme of the town, draw the top and side(s) views for buildings and global town, etc.
We also need one or two people to look for the offset to change to have more factions.
I insist, we really need artists when we have found the global theme of the town :s Without them, 3D modeling will be far more difficult.
So if you want to join us, tell it ! It would be even greater if you bring something with you (a first art, first drawing, nothing ,...)
Please come ! We already have Psatkha in the team, isn't it a far enough argument to join ?


Team
TSoD ---------- Job : 3D Modeler ; Creatures Design ; Project instigator
PSATKHA ------- Job : ? Creatures Design, Artworks* and Textures ?
Oz ------------ Job : First sketches and artworks
Lord_Immortal - Job : 2D test views designer

*I add "Artworks" cause I noticed in the NCF Thread that you can make some testing view very promising... :s But all jobs can still be changed !


Progress
Global : 1%
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antipaladin
antipaladin


Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted September 04, 2009 12:00 PM

Lizardman,could have troglodytes as well as gnolls in. you for the idiotic ubi have killed warlocks and replaced with silly dark elfs.
Trogo's as level one
lizardman archers as lvl 2
gnolls as level 3
Lizard warior as level 4
Gorgon as level 5
medusa as level 6
Manticore as level 7

Hero will be beast master:

storyline. With the near fall of the holy griffin empire a thunder strock and an island that have been hidden for centeruiys have shed himself at last.
Deep in the south populated by Lizard's Gnolls trogos and other wierd creatures,they have shamanistic lore like the orcs,but also witchcrafting of the kind elfs do.
the high elfs knew of them,several people of irowen are the descenets of axeoth,and antagrich before it. they remmember those vile creatures.
but now,aware of there pressence it is unkown what will happen with them!


____________
types in obscure english

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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 12:19 PM

Very good idea ! A Heroes III fortress/dungeon-like faction seems good !
We already have gnolls thanks to psatkha. But how can we make lizard-men... Maybe Archer model, but we modify the face : it could be like the mounted lizard from Dungeon... We can edit the head and the hand I think, cause they can be attached like ModelInstance to the model skeleton and because theyr are static. Yes that should do it with a little perseverance
Medusas... For the hair, we should use the Hydra model without body, only rest the snake-heads... Two or three instances of this ModelInstance should make good hair.
For the body model... Naga creature from Nival exists in idle00, so if we make the texture (we have the UV Coordinates), we could use this model, and use effects to make a sensation of attack...
For Gorgons, I have no idea we have no model of cow :s
Maybe modifying the Horned Demon model (replacing hands by sabots, curve horns like bulls, change a little the face... With modelinstances we should be able to do it)
Manticoras are already existing
Lizard warrior : same method than Archers, but with footman maybe... New round shield in wood... Put the hammer of the dwarf king in his hands...

Yes Fortress could be possible ! Others, what do you think ?

And how do you see this town ? Loke heroes III one ? if yes, we have all we need to sense the global theme of the town
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TroggyMan
TroggyMan


Adventuring Hero
Ragin' Tard
posted September 04, 2009 01:04 PM

As for a name, what about Catacombs? Garrison?

Due to model limitations I do not know what to base it on, but I would suggest that since most creatures are either from greek or mesopotamian mythology, could be designed with a greek/persian theme in mind, though underground and in disrepair.

I am not too sure about manticores being tier 7 and gnolls tier 3, they seem too weak for that, Manticores have long been seen as powerful beasts indeed, but not on the level of dragons. The gnolls require to be really brutish to be tier 3, though i have some difficulty seeing them above tier 2, as they are hyenas- cowardly half-scavengers.

The tier 7 creatures could be:
metal dragons- bronze dragon, upgrades either to rust or steel
behemoth- no introduction required
or something else, i would put manticores as tier 5 or 6, not 7.

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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 01:21 PM

Good idea for the mesopotamian/greek/persian theme. Maya civilization could also be a good theme, cause Academy is already inspired by mesopotamian, persian and greek, isn't it ?

Trogo's as level 1
Gnolls as level 2
lizardman archers as lvl 3
Lizard warior as level 4
Medusa as level 5
Manticore as level 6
Behemot as level 7, with Horned Demon's model. We can easily add fur (ModelInstances added like the grass but in grey)

Beter ?
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Lepastur
Lepastur


Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
posted September 04, 2009 02:08 PM

I agree with the Fortress Lizard Town, and the South American Jungle theme should be fine for them, as it was in Heroes III. The real pity is that we can't use own models
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hispana ms completa sobre la saga Might&Magic.

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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 02:24 PM

Yes we can. We can't animated them, but with a little subtility, we can use them in ModelInstances
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Disturbed-Gnu
Disturbed-Gnu


Supreme Hero
Pro Bacon Vodka Brewer
posted September 04, 2009 02:26 PM

Trogo's can be made like Kronos did it. An Imp with another skeleton..

Gnolls: There is an NCF gnoll which you can get inspiration from? Just a bigger head ;p

Lizardman Archer and Lizard Warrior can be made of what?

Medusa: If you are creating the medusa, please don't make her half snake half other thing!!!! Unless you can make it better than the NCF medusa (Loooong arms, huuuge body, small tail..!!
Make her like H4, or better yes like the MTG card Sisters of stonedeath..
Or don't use the medusa, you can't add snake hair anyway!!!

Manticore: That is as simple as possible ;p Use the Manticore ;p

Quote:
Behemot as level 7, with Horned Demon's model. We can easily add fur (ModelInstances added like the grass but in grey)
That is the wy to do it ;p You're a genious


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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 02:47 PM

For all creatures we can make a good NCF. Medusas making and so on, I've described them above

Quote:
Very good idea ! A Heroes III fortress/dungeon-like faction seems good !
We already have gnolls thanks to psatkha. But how can we make lizard-men... Maybe Archer model, but we modify the face : it could be like the mounted lizard from Dungeon... We can edit the head and the hand I think, cause they can be attached like ModelInstance to the model skeleton and because theyr are static. Yes that should do it with a little perseverance
Medusas... For the hair, we should use the Hydra model without body, only rest the snake-heads... Two or three instances of this ModelInstance should make good hair.
For the body model... Naga creature from Nival exists in idle00, so if we make the texture (we have the UV Coordinates), we could use this model, and use effects to make a sensation of attack...
For Gorgons, I have no idea we have no model of cow :s
Maybe modifying the Horned Demon model (replacing hands by sabots, curve horns like bulls, change a little the face... With modelinstances we should be able to do it)
Manticoras are already existing
Lizard warrior : same method than Archers, but with footman maybe... New round shield in wood... Put the hammer of the dwarf king in his hands...

Yes Fortress could be possible ! Others, what do you think ?

And how do you see this town ? Loke heroes III one ? if yes, we have all we need to sense the global theme of the town

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the complete and homogen NCF
library.

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TroggyMan
TroggyMan


Adventuring Hero
Ragin' Tard
posted September 04, 2009 03:22 PM

If the south american theme will be used, I would probably call it temple, or maybe remain a little culturally ambiguous and call it ziggurat, considering the presence of all mesopotamian/greek creatures (which infact are all creatures besides the lizardmen!)

One idea I had for a town was a town that would reintroduce the rogue, halfling (possibly, or gnome) troll and ogre, amongst others. The theme would be forest-dwelling creatures and humans from european folklore not covered by any faction, one idea was a unit called the witch, with the upgrades hag and crone (original names for the shaman).
If the gnome, I guess the upgrades would be Leprechaun and Clurichaun.

The wolf could be in this faction as well.

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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 04:09 PM

Ziggurat is a good name
But a forest-based faction would be too resembling with the Sylvans I think...
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Lepastur
Lepastur


Known Hero
The Red Taskmaster
posted September 04, 2009 04:14 PM

What's exactly the ModelInstances? I knew about the animation skeleton problems, and that's what I meant to. BTW, if you use static models, could they be able to move about the battlefied? Ziggurat sounds great, and it would be jungle based, not forest
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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 04:27 PM

Skeletons are composed with bones, named L_Hand, R_Hand, Head,... So, as heads for example don't have any animation (yes, the talk animation use the lips of the head, but it is not important cause we will never use it), we can patch the static model of another head on the "Head" bone of the original model and erase the original head. So the new Head move like the previous one. It can't be animated with moving lips, but is is enough
Same method with hands, feet, static weapons like swords,...
Very possible.
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TroggyMan
TroggyMan


Adventuring Hero
Ragin' Tard
posted September 04, 2009 04:34 PM

Quote:
But a forest-based faction would be too resembling with the Sylvans I think...


I would say this faction would be more in the style of pine forests and mountains, much in the style of northern england/scotland and scandinavia in enviroment, in the style of the art by John Bauer, more or less.

Sylvan is a faction partially inspired by english forests, while this is a bit more northern and a little less trees. Let's say it's about the wilds more than the woods, really.

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2009 04:53 PM
Edited by SimonaK at 16:54, 04 Sep 2009.

I'm anxious about technical question....

1 - What about special buildings? -- new towns will offer what?

if not new, somes of special building are linked with hero class so they are not usable withtout the hero class.

2 - What about hero class?  -- new? then new SkillWheel....new = not new absolute competence

if not new, what happens when there is one class for two castle...

3 - What about Heroes? adding new heroes?, using others by reducing ratio town/heroes?

4 - Probably the Power of Dragon will work...I hope!

5 - I'm thinking to...


Adding a new town is possible without hex-editing, only the town will not be seizable from the menu.
I already know RTMG will be able to add the town it-self in the map.

So, no need to wait a new exe to begin the building of the new town. All tests on can be done
by modifing the reference of other town.

ex: TOWN_PRESERVE = /MapObjects/LizardTown.(AdvMapTown).xdb

that is just temporarily replaced to make all necessary tests.

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TSoD
TSoD


Promising
Famous Hero
NCF Blacksmith
posted September 04, 2009 05:17 PM

Exactly And good news !
I'm happy you pointed out these "problems" SimonaK Indeed we will create a new Hero Class (there we need hex editing). But we make it only because we have to, so it will have barbarians abilities (gnolls, trogo's, lizards and Behemot are too stupid to understand magic usage. So, same skillwheel with some little change in the skills hierarchy and special abilities than barbarian class (slaves market, howls, and blood rage (cause I dunno how to add new class skills)). Indeed it's a pity that we can't make race abilities and so on, but here we have no choice, it is not possible (think I).

So we will need hex editing I'm afraid, at least to add a hero class.
By the way, can you tell me how you found the right offset to modify in the .exe ? When I search for '0x9' (9 like the 9 races for example) I find very much instances -_-"

@others : Jungle theme with Mesopotamian/greek/persian buildings or Jungle theme with wood buildings ? What do you think about a mesopotamian/greek/persian mixed with wood like in Heroes III, and called Ziggurat ? :

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Kronos1000
Kronos1000


Promising
Supreme Hero
Frysln Boppe
posted September 04, 2009 05:23 PM

Actually ToK's Nexus was made the way SimonaK said, but creating a new Town ID will bring issues. I also posted this in the ToK thread:

"All right I'll tell you the deal with creating new towns; in the case of creatures you can add as much as you like by increasing the number hard coded in the exe. Before Tote it was hardly useful since one couldn't add abilities. With towns all buildings', except for dwellings, marketplaces and blacksmiths, effects are hard coded in the exe file so in theory one could add a new town, but it'll miss the building effects. Unless someone can decompile the exe this cannot be done that's why we/I decided to use the TOWN_DUNGEON ID for Nexus so that it has the Dungeon town's effects, those are the only ones not specifically linked to creatures of that town (i.e. Bloodrage, Gating, Training etc.)"

Creating Her classes isn't hard, but it will take time, but you probably knew that.
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Hwr cwom maumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'

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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2009 05:24 PM
Edited by SimonaK at 17:25, 04 Sep 2009.

the choice of the town is the best one about me. adding a new "barbarian" method is just perfect.

however the bloodrage just work for creatures having their CreatureTown = TOWN_STRONGHOLD and not other thing.

this data is not just one number being a quantity of something. It's really harder to hex-edit than changing one quantity.

Some town specialities are linked with the hero class!

perhaps the best is forgetting bloodrage for the new town anyway it is already too nice!

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antipaladin
antipaladin


Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted September 04, 2009 05:48 PM

actually if yuou look back in ncf,a memmber called eugen corsmarual once did a naga.

also manticore can be made strong by states... and i dont like behemoth as it is too barberic.
Trogos could be done like wingless imps with black texture,praphes even giving it a weapon.

as for gorgon i have a perffffect idea
take all 3 varitions of tier 2 inferno,give it wings,big wings,recolor it to dark green,dark blue and black, and you have gorgons,.
also regarding dragons..we have too much of thouse./
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SimonaK
SimonaK


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 04, 2009 05:54 PM

these ideas are cool!

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