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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 22, 2011 05:01 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 17:01, 22 Jul 2011.
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You may not have to 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Meundmein
Adventuring Hero
Tricky, tricky Death...
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posted July 22, 2011 05:12 PM |
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Quote:
You may not have to
There still is hope in the world. 
By the way, I'm not saying that H6 town screens are good, I'm just saying I believe they're better than H4. I don't like them, I would absolutely prefer full screen and more content to them. I was stunned by H5 town screens, loved them all to bits, but I think expecting such a thing would be too much, sadly. 
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted July 22, 2011 05:36 PM |
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As I was discussing with Elvin earlier, one of my biggest gripes about Heroes 6 is the worthless catapult. I really miss the war machines skill of Heroes 5 (and other games) now that we are stuck with a worthless piece of junk. Even the upgrades are mostly terrible. I'd kill to have manual control back and maybe an extra shot or two.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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KingImp
Famous Hero
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posted July 22, 2011 05:49 PM |
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Edited by KingImp at 17:50, 22 Jul 2011.
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To me, the best part of the Heroes 4 town screens was that it would reflect the type of terrain it was on like Elvin said. That was a nice touch IMO.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 22, 2011 06:43 PM |
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Quote:
The only problems with H4 townscreens were a few ugly buildings, too much space between them, and the mismatching terrain.
Yeah, that sums up my objections pretty well.
Quote:
H5 also did an amazing job with townscreens, grand sceneries, huge buildings. We finally actually saw a city which scaled to our army size.
I really don't get this excuse with the load times...
Amen. Townscreen takes to long to load, but instead they introduce conversion scenes that take considerably longer and by the way looks completely oversaturated and bloated in the colours, and hence look pretty crappy. Really, UbiSoft?
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 22, 2011 07:09 PM |
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Actually on my laptop, it takes about a second to load the H5 town screens but the first time I click on the H6 town window, it takes like 5 seconds for it to appear.
I hope that town screens will be their first priority after H6 is released. Sure, its the developers job to balance but we can balance the game with mods. It would be much harder to mod in proper town screens.
Maybe they could actually talk a bit about the town screens with the fans. I want them to explain WHY they made town windows. "It speeds up the game" is BS that I won't listen too.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Maverick
Tavern Dweller
Master of War
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posted July 22, 2011 08:13 PM |
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Quote:
I actually (don't hit me) prefer H6 town screen to H4. I think it's so much more artistic, H4 was just, well, cheap 3d.
Ya, town screens aren't a gamebreaker for me.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted July 22, 2011 08:25 PM |
bonus applied by alcibiades on 22 Jul 2011. |
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The trouble is, without the town screens and the artwork they bring to the game, there really isn't any difference between Heroes and any other TBS game. There are gameplay differences, sure, but the town screen has always been the hallmark of the franchise. When Heroes 1 was in weird 2D that looked a bit like a choose-your-own-adventure screen, the town screen had depth and color and detail. When Heroes 3 introduced nine different factions that populated the world with myriad creatures, it was the town screen that showed you where those creatures lived and how they were different from each other.
It's the town screen that shows you the faction. The units might all look similar, the demons might be all red-skinned flaming horn-heads, but without the town screen showing you where they came from or how they arrived on this world, they might as well be neutrals.
In the end, though, it would just be a damn shame if they left them as they are right now. They talked so much before about the architecture of each faction, the gothic spires of the necropolis and the long arches of Haven. If all of that detail was relegated to an icon on the world map, it would be a disservice to the designers - and it cheats the players out of something truly worthwhile.
Is it a gamebreaker? No. It doesn't change the gameplay, it doesn't make the turns go any faster or slower, it adds nothing to balance. It is, from a mechanical perspective, non-essential.
But it is important. It is the foundation on which everything else is built. Without that, the game itself is...well, it's not Heroes.
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted July 22, 2011 09:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Other than that they were creative
Wow ... Creative ? Seriously ??? They were ALL copy-paste of each other with all the buildinds in the same place in every city and you call this creative ? If you want creativity I'd suggest you watch the H3 town screens or even the H5 ones, but saying that the H4 screens were creative sounds like ... blasphemy 
EDIT :
This is the setup of EVERY H4 city :
---Grail ----- City Hall --------------------------------------------- Fort ----------
----Dwelling 2 ---- Dwelling 3 -------- Dwelling 4 ------------ Caravan - Prison
Dwelling 1 - Special building 1 - Mage Guild - Special Building 2 - Armory
Dwelling 1 ----------------------------Tavern --------------------------- Shipyard
So please, don't tell me this was creative 
I was talking about the buildings...
Obviously they had to place buildings in the same places otherwise matching terrians would be like 10x work.
Also how do you figure I haven't seen H3screens(especially with Thane as my avatar)? I basicly grew up with that game, the townscreens were perfect and we all agree, there's no reason to defend those...
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted July 23, 2011 01:50 AM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 02:09, 23 Jul 2011.
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you call THIS a crappy town screen????
excuse me ... ???????? 
and
about Heroes4 influence to Heroes6...
which Tier system is most similar to the current one from all the HoMM installments...
i guess H4??? maybe???
no not really ...you think?
ok what about the Heroes advanced classes??? wasn't the H4 who first implimented something similar...
no ? not convinced yet???
ok..
Let's take Stronghold...
when did Centaurs and Harpies make their first appearance in Stronghold???
wasn't it H4???
and people called it a bad idea... yes a lot of them did..
and now they are saying that Harpies are a genious addition to Stronghold faction..
i see no consistency in their judgement then...
Jaguar Warrior who is sort of an Mix of Ogre that we know and a Behemoth (Claws were added to please Behemoth lovers)..
need more ??? ok...
a Venom Spawn..? which was like a joke..?? with a mouth on its belly.. while similar Breeder is a "Great Idea"????
NO NO NO... they both are just CRAP!!!!
You call creatures from H4 looking plastic??? ok maybe a lot of them do (with notable exeptions though)..
but how you can call a Shark Warrior a Great looking unit, while it looks more Plastic then Plastic itself????
Kirin is a great idea in terms of art, while Megadragon looks hilarious???
even though they are both Eastern Dragon-like.. (Magadragon is just a fat copy of Kirin)...
Yes i know someone may call it a small things..
But this small things are the ones that make HoMM different from other TBS games... as they form the ATMOSPHERE!!!
p.s. i can continue with samples that H6 is pretty much inspired by H4 if anyone willing to hear what i am trying to say...
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 02:05 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 02:17, 23 Jul 2011.
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Well, the H4 screens might not have been the best but I think that one looks far better than for instance, the super boring wasteland Heroes 2 one.
I LOVE the Mage Guild though!
So cool and... wizardly!
Music is truly amazing though!
And oh my gaga, the sax in the Life theme is amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W5x-cQLDY4&feature=related
I AM CRYING NOW ;((((((
I love Shyranis for putting these up, I would give you a thousand hugs!
Because viewing these town screens, listening to this music, it brings back so many memories and now H6 is going to destroy that!
Town screens like in those videos was a huge and essential part of the Heroes atmosphere and feeling!
omg the H4 Chaos time is the best and most original in the series ever! I love the "children voices"!
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 02:06 AM |
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Quote:
you call THIS a crappy town screen????
excuse me ... ????????
How the hell the Titan dwelling has clouds and is under the other buildings that do not have them. Anyway the dont look integrated, like a town, they look like a bunch of buildings with similar aesthetic in a terrain, unlike H3( that was beautiful and super functional) and H5 (that you must be just hating for the sake of it if you say that those werent stunning, though they werent very functional)
Quote:
And oh my gaga
I like you
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 23, 2011 09:59 AM |
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@DarkLord
Sorry but that is a bad towns screen...
And about your points
Tier system - yes you might be right about this one. sort of
Advanced clases - no not in such a way to call it an inspiration or even origin of those we have
Units
Stronghold - you are overdoing it the designe is mostly copied from heroes V
Breeder vs spawm - Spawm was one of the most inovative devil units, and so is the Breeder, but I would not compare them.
Shark guard - O hell have you ever seen a shark? They DO LOOK more plastic then plastic it self! Guess why? they live in water!
Kirin - One of the first thing I did no the forum here,when I saw the Kirin was, extract the MaM VI Wyrm, find a H IV Megadragon a gave them all for comparison (yes Megadragons design was nothing new in heroes IV just copied from MaM IV)
You are just forcing your self to finde these thing. Like the Jaguar si a combo of Oger and behomoth. This is the sam thing like if I said that the Painlover is just a mix of gog and a horned demon.
Yes please give me more examples. If you manage to give me 3 good ones I will accept it but so far you have ONE. And such opinions make you look in my eyes as bad as those "Profesional critics" that say "Heroes VI takes the best of Heroes III nad Nothing from Heroes V" Why? how? heroes V is a 70% copie of Heroes III with minor changes.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 10:32 AM |
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Quote:
you call THIS a crappy town screen????
excuse me ... ????????
It's as ugly as every other town screen of H4 since they're all copy-pastes of each others with a different repaint.
It's amazing that people blame Ubisoft for snowty town screens in H6 but admit that NWC only lacked time for the H4 ones. H4 and H6 screens are all ugly and unacceptable. Period.
Quote:
about Heroes4 influence to Heroes6...
which Tier system is most similar to the current one from all the HoMM installments...
i guess H4??? maybe???
no not really ...you think?
Absolutely not. Your argument is quite laughable. Where is there a choice to make in H6 ? You have 7 creatures which you can ALL recruit, there's no choice to make. You recruit creatures the same way you did in H1/2/3/5, the only difference being that the lower tiers are stronger.
Quote:
Let's take Stronghold...
when did Centaurs and Harpies make their first appearance in Stronghold???
wasn't it H4???
and people called it a bad idea... yes a lot of them did..
and now they are saying that Harpies are a genious addition to Stronghold faction..
Trying to find arguments for the sake of finding arguments ? So because Centaurs and Harpies were in the Stronghold in H4, H6 is inspired by H4 ? Come on
Quote:
i see no consistency in their judgement then...
Jaguar Warrior who is sort of an Mix of Ogre that we know and a Behemoth (Claws were added to please Behemoth lovers)..
need more ??? ok...
a Venom Spawn..? which was like a joke..?? with a mouth on its belly.. while similar Breeder is a "Great Idea"????
NO NO NO... they both are just CRAP!!!!
Jaguar Warrior is a fun creature yes. Breeder is the most original creature. Juste because YOU don't like them doesn't mean they're crap ...
Quote:
p.s. i can continue with samples that H6 is pretty much inspired by H4 if anyone willing to hear what i am trying to say...
So tell me ... In H6 where are the heroes on the battlefields ? Where are the simultaneous riposts ? Where are the caravans ? Where is the H4 skill system ?
If a H4 fan reads your post he will surely laugh at you because most of the H4 players have already massively rejected H6 because Ubisoft didn't get back to what made the strategic charm of H4.
And you ? You come up with 2 creatures that look like H4 creatures and then say that H6 is a copy of H4 ? Thanks for the good laugh ! Try again when you'll have REAL arguments
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted July 23, 2011 03:15 PM |
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About town screens...
At least Heroes4 had them. Heroes6 doesn't.
I actually prefer Heroes1 town screens in some cases. Look at Sorceress town (later Rampart, Sylvan)
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes1/sorceresscastle.shtml
Even fully built, Sorceress town looks quite spacious. It's a bunch of buildings here and there in the wilderness. Forest is very close. Aside from Thieves' Guild and Tavern, all buildings are far from each other. The funny thing - dwarf and elf are looking at each other, and the elf might be sharpening his knife. For all the colours, the screen seems to be in harmony.
Now heroes2 Sorceress screen:
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/town_sorceress.shtml
Eww ! Claustrophobic, all buildings nearly touching each other, lots of colors EVERYWHERE. Forest ? What forest ?
Heroes3 Rampart looks okay, but a bit dull. Buildings are too similar. Everything is either green or light brown.
Heroes3 has some nice screens, like Fortress, but I wouldn't call them the best. Sometimes buildings are too far from each other. For me, Heroes 2 seems to be the pretties, especially Stronghold (barbarian)
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/town_barbarian.shtml
The right balance between making things interesting and colorful and harmonious.
Heroes3 is a bit dull for my taste:
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes3/buildingsstronghold0.shtml
...but I still like Heroes1 screens a lot, particularly Sorceress and Barbarian.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes1/barbariancastle.shtml
There's quite a lot of subtlety if you look closer. For example Knight town has buildings closest to each other. Sorceress looked like it's a town of reclusive creatures, Knight - like a home of communal creatures.
Part of the reason why Heroes3 looks a bit bleak to me is that it seems pre-rendered. Early 3D has that awful trait that everything is very shiny and lighting is uniform.
____________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted July 23, 2011 03:17 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 15:24, 23 Jul 2011.
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This is the setup of EVERY H4 city :
---Grail ----- City Hall --------------------------------------------- Fort ----------
----Dwelling 2 ---- Dwelling 3 -------- Dwelling 4 ------------ Caravan - Prison
Dwelling 1 - Special building 1 - Mage Guild - Special Building 2 - Armory
Dwelling 1 ----------------------------Tavern --------------------------- Shipyard
So please, don't tell me this was creative
and This is the setup of EVERY H6 city :
---------------------sky around the main building------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
---------main building (the more level the taller it is)-----------
with unique small building on the side of main bulding(right or left)
so if this was H4
this is the way it is in H6
 
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted July 23, 2011 04:49 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 17:32, 23 Jul 2011.
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Quote:
You are just forcing your self to finde these thing. Like the Jaguar si a combo of Oger and behomoth. This is the sam thing like if I said that the Painlover is just a mix of gog and a horned demon.
Yes please give me more examples. If you manage to give me 3 good ones I will accept it but so far you have ONE. And such opinions make you look in my eyes as bad as those "Profesional critics" that say "Heroes VI takes the best of Heroes III nad Nothing from Heroes V" Why? how? heroes V is a 70% copie of Heroes III with minor changes.
+ And you ? You come up with 2 creatures that look like H4 creatures and then say that H6 is a copy of H4 ? Thanks for the good laugh ! Try again when you'll have REAL arguments
i am actually not forsing myself to find similarities.. i do see them!!!
and i am also pointing out the inconsistency of some peoples "judgements"...
will try to give you 3 "good ones", or "REAL" ones as requested!
1- you can put archers on the walls in Heroes6, which was first implimented in Heroes4
2- you can convert Towns into your type in Heroes6, which was a pretty much idea of "outpost towns" conversion in Heroes 4
3- Heroes can move in the adventure map without troops , they could do so in Heroes4
good enough?
not speaking of creature ideas that were snached from (let's call it Heroes4,5) which is 3DO's-Heroes5 development ...
and i will give more if you guys want to..!
also if some people say that Atmosphere and Design doesn't matter and it's just the Game mechanics that's important, then Heroes5-second expansion is waaay superior then any other game, (including Heroes3 as well)..
But why people don't like H5 that much?? because of atmosphere that was spoiled by Cartoonish graphics and Silly storyline!!!
So that explains why things like Town-Screens can destroy the atmosphere of the game, thus destroying it's potential and the whole impression of the Game!!!
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Maverick
Tavern Dweller
Master of War
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posted July 23, 2011 05:02 PM |
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Town screens
Town screens aren't a big deal, you can learn to get use to them, by the time you played H6 a dozen times you won't even notice them.
Also, remember that the major lag(AI turns) in H5 was due to the caravan system and not the 3d town screens. Because while you were waiting other AI's finish their moves, you were also waiting until the caravans reach their destinations. It created this 2 tier waiting time. No matter how fast or how much memory your machine was, you woudn't notice improvements..
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted July 23, 2011 05:04 PM |
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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, DarkLord.
It's a Heroes game; they're allowed to draw ideas from the rest of the franchise. And if they saw an idea that they thought could have been executed better, it's their right as game developers to give it a try. Advanced Classes were a good idea in H4, but they weren't implemented well; now it looks like they function a bit more nicely. The Venom Spawn was...interesting...but it was too far from the mark; so they synthesized the idea of a hideous monster-like thing and created the Breeder, which works much better.
The tier system in H4 was that you had to choose one of each tier of creature - which a lot of people hated, for obvious reasons - and so in H6, they decided to bring the tier system back, but change it so that it wouldn't offend so many people. So now we have a tier system that works.
I can see the comparisons you're drawing, DarkLord, but what you're pointing out isn't plagiarism; it's evolution.
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Maverick
Tavern Dweller
Master of War
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posted July 23, 2011 05:06 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
3- Heroes can move in the adventure map without troops , they could do so in Heroes4
good enough?
I missed that one, are you implying that heroes could move without creatures in H6 also just like H4? if yes, link info? how does it work?
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