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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 (136) 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
Naze
Naze


Known Hero
posted January 30, 2011 07:01 PM

Wow, this game is getting better and better There are still some things, which bother me (like approximately 1 creature in each line-up), but... I cannot wait to have it!
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foxxxer
foxxxer


Famous Hero
posted January 30, 2011 07:23 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 19:30, 30 Jan 2011.

About the rosette ('ring' below the Ravenous Ghoul). It reminds me for a pagan Bulgarian rosette from 7th century AD.



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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted January 30, 2011 07:46 PM

So far I am absolutely loving the game. Especially the graphics (which are not cartoonish, nor too serious, a good compromise) and creatures. But there are a few things I dislike. First of all, while it isn't my biggest issue, it has been talked about a lot, the resources. I am pretty indifferent to theirreduction now, but I seriously fail to see the idea behind it, I mean normally innovation is motivated by aiming to improve flaws, but I see no problem with the classic 5 rare resources. But nevermind...
I am sad about the number of factions, while the factions themselves are great, but that doesn't compensate a ridiculous number of 5, one less than H2
Also, I'm amazed by most of the creatures, there are some I would replace, or at least modify:

1)Vampire - IMHO it is the worst Vampire yet visually, maybe only better than the stupid ponytail one of H5. It has too much armour, stupid hair, a weird face etc. The H2 and H4 ones were the best. Also the movement animation should be a vampire bat one, way more climatic, and the attack animation should be life suction like in H4, or at least with claws like H3. About any unit in the game is capable of slashing things up with a sword, but taking the Vampire's potential into consideration, it's quite unsuiting.

2)Lamassu - I like the creature itself, but absolutely HATE that it has a boring human face, a lion one like the Manticore would have been way scarier, and attractive at the same time IMO . I think that the creature should have been left out, while using its model to make a Manticore, and replacing that spot in the lineup by a monstrous Gargoyle.
*Side note - while I like the Fate Weaver, I'd want the awesome Bone Dragon back, at least as a neutral.

3)Griffin - GREAT! but it repeats the stupid mistake of H5 of over-armourisation. I mean, why cover up such a cool creature entirely so we can't see its face?

4)River Spirit - While I have nothing against a Water Elemental, it is too similar to the magnifiscent Ice Maiden, therefore I'd make it a neutral and replace it with a...Floating Electric Jellyfish! or a flying Manta Ray etc.

5)Maniac - Please! It doesn't look too bad, but it's so generic and boring, an Imp would have been more interesting, plus it possesses the exclusive Mana Steal ability that will now probably be absent in the game

6)Tormentor - It looks good and scary, but I think it looks like something out of an Alien film, rather than a medieval fantasy game candidate. I'd replace him with a Nightmare or Efreet.
*and why exactly does the Cerberus have only 2 heads? It's one of my favourite creatures, just asking.
*I'm amazed by and soo happy about the awesomly designed Pit Lord taking the place of the cliche, boring, and mostly unintelligent Devil (at least that was the case in H5). Pretty sure he'll return as a neutral anyways.

7)Goblin - I think this is purely because I dislike them in general, and they just look unsuited for combat and weak overall. I'd replace him with a Wolf, Boar, Waspwort (to boost the ranged power of Stronghold).

8)Big Elite Orc and Orc Shaman - I actually like both of them. But I'd make one of them a neutral and replace with a Wyvern or Coatl.

9)Cyclop - Don't get me wrong, I like them, even though they look even more obese and deformed than in H5 (resemble the WC Abomination somewhat), but I don't see how they are a better candidate for a Champion than a Behemoth or Thunderbird. I'd make them neutral, or a Boss even.
*I dislike the overall Stronghold association with and deformation due to Demonic Blood. I miss the old H3 styled Stronghold...


So, these are the things I'd change, but that doesn't mean I don't like those units at all

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 30, 2011 07:48 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 19:50, 30 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Indeed, there will be a number of special tiles that affect combat.


  Did this just slip you by or was something already announced, because you just confirmed some new info regarding the battle map ... from which all I know is flooding of areas from the arena, destructible obstacles and a more dynamic battle field

Quote:
About the rosette ('ring' below the Ravenous Ghoul). It reminds me for a pagan Bulgarian rosette from 7th century AD.

 
 Indeed the look similar could you tell us a bit more about this pagan Bulgarian rosette, could be they also taken inspiration for the ability it boosts / list the benefits it gives
____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Famous Hero
posted January 30, 2011 07:55 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 19:56, 30 Jan 2011.

Quote:

 Indeed the look similar could you tell us a bit more about this pagan Bulgarian rosette, could be they also taken inspiration for the ability it boosts / list the benefits it gives


Here

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 30, 2011 08:09 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 20:10, 30 Jan 2011.

Quote:

Here



  Thanks, some sort of highly precise calendar used for divination ... hope will get some explanation from the dev or see it work in game because for now it eludes me, but could be similar to D3 buffs attack power.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 30, 2011 10:03 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Indeed, there will be a number of special tiles that affect combat.


  Did this just slip you by or was something already announced, because you just confirmed some new info regarding the battle map ... from which all I know is flooding of areas from the arena, destructible obstacles and a more dynamic battle field

That's known for monthes Think many of the battlefield infos have been forgotten already


Here's a (non-exhaustive) list of arena features :
- The biggest player controlled creatures will be 2x2 squares
- Some ranged units can do AE damage
- The Dragon Eel boss will be 2x8 squares, but there are bosses that can cover up to half of the battlefield
- There can be secondary objectives during battles : like holding a position for X turns, defend a position through the whole fight, etc...
- The "average" battlefield is bigger than in previous Heroes games ... or is it the size of squares that has diminished ?
- The battlefields will be dynamic and can evolve through a battle. Players and AI can apply effects that will modifiy the battlefield, also random events like floods can not only block some areas, but they can also bring new obstacles to the battlefield once they go away. (This was also a hint towards the Juggernaut ability to melt anything on his charge path )
- Most units will have a lot less activated abilities and more passive abilities
- The battlefields will have more various obstacles (rocks, tree and even bridges)
- There can be offensive and defensive positions on the battlefields
- The 7 stacks limit per army is still there, no matter the size of the battlefield
- Morale will allow a 2nd action. Bad morale will prevent a unit from acting.
- Luck will cause double damage. Bad Luck only half damage.

Most of these infos were gathered through Q&A or are from the PC Games preview (with Mother Namtaru).

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted January 31, 2011 12:50 PM

Bonus Tiles are a bad Idea. I would rather see a terein based bonus (like a bonus for archeres if they stand on top of a hill)
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your
self.

We see, we look, we gather,
we
store, we teach. We are
many,
and you can be one of us.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 31, 2011 01:06 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 13:08, 31 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Bonus Tiles are a bad Idea. I would rather see a terein based bonus (like a bonus for archeres if they stand on top of a hill)

I agree, special tiles seems like a bad idea, very bad indeed.

Why?

Because when you're in a battle, you want to place and attack with your units where they are best needed, right? However if you add special tiles to the mix some units could not even be used as effectively as they should. The place where the units should have done the most strategically damage has nullified because of the bad luck that a special tile should happen to be in the way (for example by making the unit placed on it weaker or something).
The thing that I don't like is that it adds even more (unnecessary) randomness. Sure you could claim that such things like Adaptability comes into play. But is it really good when you can't use a unit as it was meant to be used because of a random placed special tile?

(note that all the text above is written without any knowledge whatsoever about how these "special tiles" will work, or how the end result will be.)
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"You turn me on Jaba"
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DeadAce
DeadAce


Adventuring Hero
posted January 31, 2011 01:29 PM
Edited by deadace at 13:32, 31 Jan 2011.

I think the tiles sounds interesting! I like the idea that the battlefield has something more to offer like obtacles and these tiles! It'll make combat much more varied and add a strategic element where you need to adapt to the individual battle fields!

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted January 31, 2011 01:42 PM

I'm with deadace, seriously what's with the negativity? So far we only had obstacles, no other variables that could increase combat tactics. The fact they are there does not prevent you from making an optimal decision with your units, you just have to take them into the equation if you want to do better.
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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted January 31, 2011 01:51 PM

Quote:
Holy crap, this week's screens are going to be awesome.

When you say awesome, you mean awesome or just like today's screenshot?


About the special tiles, I still have to wait and see before having an opinion.
It looks good because it compensates the lack of random of other features, but without knowing how those tiles work and what effects they have I can't say anything.
But I hope not all special tiles have benefits. Hope to see some "bad" special tiles.
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Come back soon, Elvin!

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 31, 2011 02:16 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 14:24, 31 Jan 2011.

Quote:
I'm with deadace, seriously what's with the negativity? So far we only had obstacles, no other variables that could increase combat tactics. The fact they are there does not prevent you from making an optimal decision with your units, you just have to take them into the equation if you want to do better.

As always my negativity is based on fear. First of these special tiles will presumably be randomly located, so since no player will have control over them, it's all about who is the most lucky.
But of course that isn't entirely true since it ALSO comes down to whom of the players that can utilize these "tiles" the best.

I just don't want the battle-fields in Heroes 6 to turned into some Twister playground where the two armies fight over dominance of these "tiles".

Despite my fears I however also always hope for the best ofc, so I warms my heart that it will at least add some tactics...
For example if you want to charge with your Sun Crusaders you must choose between the "best" position to strike and the "special tile"-powered location to strike.

Edit: Never mind, scratch that "lucky" part. After all, if these "tiles" are visible during the placement round the players will have plenty of time to adjust....
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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mancubus
mancubus


Adventuring Hero
posted January 31, 2011 02:29 PM

Special tiles=gameplay variety=good.

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted January 31, 2011 02:38 PM

Will any of these tiles be visible on the adventure map?  Like, say you declare battle on a tile that has a crack in the ground - will the resulting battle map include that crack?

Knowing before you enter combat a little bit about the battlefield would also increase the depth of strategy and planning.  At the same time, I can't imagine there would be map squares for every single special tile...

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OmegaDestroyer Online
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted January 31, 2011 04:04 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 16:06, 31 Jan 2011.

Quote:
I'm with deadace, seriously what's with the negativity? So far we only had obstacles, no other variables that could increase combat tactics. The fact they are there does not prevent you from making an optimal decision with your units, you just have to take them into the equation if you want to do better.


Did you play D3, buddy?  The titles really didn't add any depth to the battle due to the braindead AI.  They weren't like the items and what not found in King's Bounty, where a bee hive could really screw up an army.

My concern more is do we really need it?  Are battles that really bad in HOMM that we need to have special title pieces?  No.  The series has done just fine without it.
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I bring forth the raze

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LordGodric
LordGodric


Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
posted January 31, 2011 04:15 PM

Quote:
Bonus Tiles are a bad Idea. I would rather see a terein based bonus (like a bonus for archeres if they stand on top of a hill)


I agree with that, it would be fantastic having the topography of the arena affecting the combat. also coulb be zone that are blessed/cursed/enchanted that gives magical bonuses. yes the concep is the same of the bonus tiles, but the area is larger and its a better explanation than just "a tile that give bonuses just because is made of stone and has runes on it" from disciples 3... (I really disliked that game!)

Quote:
Like having a hill somewhere on the battlefield? If we wanted it to look realistic then the battlefield should be much bigger, or look pretty wierd


Not nescessarily, remember that everything in the batlles of the heroes series are just representative, like having one guy with a sword representing lotsof soldiers. i dont really think that it would be strange to have a hill 3x3 or 4x4 wide... and some valleys... and some rivers that makes the creatures run slowly, and take more demage from lighting attacks, and give bonusses for water related creatures... and some cliffs that the attacker can push some enemies - yes, i'm thinking about 300...
also wather and climate should be considerated as a factor in battle, wind is bad for archers, storm makes flyers slow, rain in some terrain makes ground units slower, snowing makes the small units slower, but normal speed for big units, sunny day maybe makes fire damage higher... and some faction should have bonuses on certain wheather conditions, like heaven in sunny, necropolis on storm, dwaves at snowing, rain for nagas...
but i think tha bonuses given by tiles/topographic objects/climete/whatever should be small, not a 50% + damage/50%+defense/whatever that could dramatically change the fate of the battle, just a small bonus that could, if there's a diference of power between the side, make the victory easyer, or make the loser side resist more time... indeed, if the armies are equal in power these factors could decide the win of lose, but even in real wars some times the 'luck' is a deciseve factor, like that mongol fleet that was distroyed by a typhoon when was about to attack japan in 1847, that gave origin to the legend of the kamikazes ("gods/spirits of wind").
anyways, randomness should play its role on the battlefield, since it doenst screw the whole strategic stuff.
so, let's wait and see.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 31, 2011 07:26 PM
Edited by MattII at 19:59, 31 Jan 2011.

Quote:
One could say it's a hint that a Titan boss is nearby.

Meh, anyone can see that a couple of Water Dragons were playing hacky-ship with it, and got a bit rough.

I don't like the idea of specific tiles being special as such, but different battlefield terrains (like rivers, hills, etc.) are an idea I'm prepared to give a bit more of a go. I'm still waiting on bigger battlefields though.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted February 01, 2011 10:39 AM

Quote:
Bonus Tiles are a bad Idea. I would rather see a terein based bonus (like a bonus for archeres if they stand on top of a hill)


Guys, maybe these are not bonus tiles but a sacred shrine at the centre of arena you must defend...I read somewhere on the combat arenas: Different combat objectives (hold your ground for X turns, defend this sacred shrine at centre of arena, kill a specific enemy stack, etc.).

Food for thought....
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There is enough religion in the world to make one hate each other, but not enough to make one love...

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted February 01, 2011 11:20 AM

That Inferno catapult is so awesome, it hurts. Hero looks pretty cool as wel. But the catapult realy takes the cake.
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"If you naturally have energy, then go and use it and go make some coffee for the people who need it." -Ronald Goedemondt

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