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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 ... 152 153 154 155 156 ... 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted February 08, 2011 07:46 AM

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Who said that Heresh is Necro land in Heroes 6?
Nobody. So, it's just named peninsula)

Yes, according to Ashan's history, in Heroes VI Heresh isn't Necromancers territory yet.

Yet!

We know that by the start of H6, Necromancers are still in Silver Cities, and we know that by H5, they are in Heresh. And this text tells us they are already stying to occupy Heresh at this point, meaning it's likely one of the expansions will feature the newly settled Heresh and Silver Cities back to Academy. Just speculation, of course, but it seems likely to me.


Well according to the timeline, in 62 YSD there was the schism of the seven cities where Sar-Antor (Blind Brothers), Sar-Badon (Dragon Knights) and Sar-Shazzar split away from each other....
Sar-Shazzar already delved in Necromancy and the undead were already living (ir unliving!) in Heresh, the haunted valley.

Strange that the screenshot says "the pleasant vale of Heresh". Maybe it was pleasant but starting to be inhabited by ghosts and ghouls. I don't think there were any factions living in Heresh. It has to be Necro lands......

The only faction unaccounted for is the Naga...and they probably come from the Isiris Sea or Hashima (water city....).


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There is enough religion in the world to make one hate each other, but not enough to make one love...

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted February 08, 2011 09:44 AM

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Why was this Devil chosen over the original concept that appeared in the H5 trailer if you remember?
Because the original looks like some Wendigo and in fact even less devilish than the gorilla that they finally came up with.
Really? A Wendigo? Not at all. The original looks 100% better.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 08, 2011 09:59 AM

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Why was this Devil chosen over the original concept that appeared in the H5 trailer if you remember?
Because the original looks like some Wendigo and in fact even less devilish than the gorilla that they finally came up with.
Really? A Wendigo? Not at all. The original looks 100% better.


I think the first one was a bit underwhelming. He looked more like a mid-tier Hellish monster, an ordinary demon by HoMM's standards, rather than a Devil. The lack of outfit added to this.

At least, the final design was more menacing. Sure, that feeling you would expect of a Devil to give off, like the schemer and plotter that he is supposed to be, wasn't there. But at least, he's looking more awe-inspiring than the previous design.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted February 08, 2011 10:01 AM

Yeah, absolutely nothing in common now when I think of it...




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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted February 08, 2011 11:06 AM

Guys just listen to THIS .. it's amazing!!!

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted February 08, 2011 11:10 AM

Quote:
Read the timeline again, it's Belketh, not Sar-Shazzar who discovers necromancy and it's done in 461 YSD.


Just because Belketh discovered Necromancy, doesn't mean it didn't exist before.....read extract from Might & Magic Wiki on Ashan:

"The year 62 YSD laid foundation Necromancers, who were originally one faction of the Wizards that seceded during the Schism of the Seven, a split between the followers of Sar-Elam; another faction went to the southern desert, where the Seven Cities, the first kingdom of Magic, was established. Necromancy itself, however, was not discovered until much later, namely 461 YSD."

So in a sense, we are both right. There were Necromancers in 62 YSD but Necromancy magic really took off in 461 YSD.


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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 08, 2011 11:33 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 12:01, 08 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Read the timeline again, it's Belketh, not Sar-Shazzar who discovers necromancy and it's done in 461 YSD.


Just because Belketh discovered Necromancy, doesn't mean it didn't exist before.....read extract from Might & Magic Wiki on Ashan:

"The year 62 YSD laid foundation Necromancers, who were originally one faction of the Wizards that seceded during the Schism of the Seven, a split between the followers of Sar-Elam; another faction went to the southern desert, where the Seven Cities, the first kingdom of Magic, was established. Necromancy itself, however, was not discovered until much later, namely 461 YSD."

So in a sense, we are both right. There were Necromancers in 62 YSD but Necromancy magic really took off in 461 YSD.



This part of the story has been retcon'd in Dark Messiah. Tieru's song "Chaos and Order" says this :

Sar-Elam, the first of the Mages, looked out upon his people in their blood soaked state and in despair cried out.

“Mother Cosmos, creator of all that is! This squabble between Order and Chaos is destroying my people. We do not wish for this to be our destiny, to be mere pawns in a war between aspects.

I beg of thee, give me the power to end this war.”

The universe looked down at men, who were tired and scared in this endless war. She looked down on the Dwarves who laid in their strongholds, surrounded by demons on all sides and frightened to death. She looked at the Elves, the fairest race in form, battle scarred and lost amongst ever growing mountains of corpses.

She felt pity for them but replied to the mage…

“Even I can not end this conflict. For this is a battle not just between hosts but between Chaos and Order. Should Urgash and Asha confront each other directly, all would be destroyed.

There will come a time when this contest ends and one is chosen over the over. But it is not time yet. I will help you postpone this battle until the time of the choosing.”

She then told what needed to be done.

To his side, Sar-Elam called his two Disciples, Sar-Issus and Sar Shazzar. Together, the three of them brought down the magic of the universe itself. This power surpassed both Order and Chaos and absorbing it into his being Sar-Elam became a dragon, equal almost to Urgash and Asha themselves.

With his new found power he banished the demon hordes and even Kha-Beleth into a separate reality, that of the fiery Hell men call Sheogh. With them the demons took peoples from many races, the slaves they had taken in their conquests, all were sucked into that prison to be sealed itself.

The power Sar-Elam had called upon himself was not without its price. For binding the demons to their prison it was necessary to sacrifice his own life. His blood and soul became the key that turned in the lock, binding Kha-Beleth in chains. For this he became known as the Seventh Dragon.

Yet Sar-Elam was betrayed. Sar Shazzar had been seduced cy the corrupting touch of Chaos and weakened the prison, providing cracks though which demons might escape.

For the first time, Ashan knew peace and the gods settled with their peoples now weary from the long epoch of war.

The Apostate Sar Shazzar was punished for his actions and imprisoned for the rest of his life. In that dank dungeon he remained until he grew old and feeble. In his final hours he ranted and raved and those that listened realised he was in the grasp of prophecy.

Scribes noted down his prediction that the time would eventually come when the Dark Messiah, heir to the magic’s of Urgash would could and the world would tremble in his shadow and blood would flow as the prison that held the demons he would break asunder.

When he finally died and servants went to remove the body, it crumpled into dust at the slightest touch.

Arkath led the Dwarves into the northern mountains. Sylanna took the elves to rebuild their homeland of Irollan and Sylath with his favoured men founded the Falcon Empire.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 08, 2011 11:52 AM

Quote:
"The year 62 YSD laid foundation Necromancers, who were originally one faction of the Wizards that seceded during the Schism of the Seven, a split between the followers of Sar-Elam; another faction went to the southern desert, where the Seven Cities, the first kingdom of Magic, was established. Necromancy itself, however, was not discovered until much later, namely 461 YSD."

So in a sense, we are both right. There were Necromancers in 62 YSD but Necromancy magic really took off in 461 YSD.
Remember that this came from a wiki page, so it isn't that trustworthy on minor details, especially given the number of red-links that page has.

Also:
Necromancy itself, however, was not discovered until much later, namely 461 YSD.
Without Necromancy there can be no Necromancers, and thus no Necropolis.

Quote:
This part of the story has been retcon'd in Dark Messiah.
Gods, did they have to? I mean come on, the story was simple enough, surely they could have got away with just filling in a few extra details, or if they really needed a traitor, make it a now already named character who gets executed as soon as he's found out.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 08, 2011 01:49 PM

Quote:
More like stables

Aye I think it's a stable too. wouldn't make much sense for it to be an elite dwelling since you most likely wouldn't be recruiting Glories and Griffins in stables Also, we've seen what the Haven dwelling looks like


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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 08, 2011 02:15 PM

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Unfortunetaly, the Fortress you mention cannot return in this new Ashan world that Might & Magic will be based on. The Fortress belongs to the Dwarves that dwell in Grimheim lands.....so Fortress = Dwarves.


In spite of the H3's fortress returning or not returning, I think the reason will not be the occupation of "Fortress" name. I mean, "Haven" in H6 IS "Castle" in H3. You can create another name and give the same H3's fortress spirit to the new name and bring back the old H3's of Lizard people. But yes, the chance is only second to none but not because the faction naming I believe.

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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted February 08, 2011 03:17 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Unfortunetaly, the Fortress you mention cannot return in this new Ashan world that Might & Magic will be based on. The Fortress belongs to the Dwarves that dwell in Grimheim lands.....so Fortress = Dwarves.


In spite of the H3's fortress returning or not returning, I think the reason will not be the occupation of "Fortress" name. I mean, "Haven" in H6 IS "Castle" in H3. You can create another name and give the same H3's fortress spirit to the new name and bring back the old H3's of Lizard people. But yes, the chance is only second to none but not because the faction naming I believe.

I agree but I never liked a swamp being called fortress. Aw well...
The closest I got for my lizardmen are those tide warriors.
Little question here: Do you guys prefer in stronghold the Roc/Thunderbird or the Wyvern/Pao-kai.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 08, 2011 03:36 PM

New screenshot is nice and all, but I don't like it that they had to use so much space to design the gardens. Especially when the town model seems too small next to them. If they wanted to make a town very famous for its gardens, they could create a unique town model then just like they do for campaign heroes. That would be a good idea.
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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted February 08, 2011 03:44 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 15:46, 08 Feb 2011.

Quote:
New screenshot is nice and all, but I don't like it that they had to use so much space to design the gardens. Especially when the town model seems too small next to them. If they wanted to make a town very famous for its gardens, they could create a unique town model then just like they do for campaign heroes. That would be a good idea.


  Yeap my thoughts exactly, at list make more buildings (Heaven) around the whole think to give it a more of a metropolis vibe, because right now looks like back country village whit a castle near his one and only attraction a garden, not even close to the would be Capitol city of the whole Empire.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted February 08, 2011 03:49 PM

Yeah, because medieval cities looked like metropolis right ?

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted February 08, 2011 03:57 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"The year 62 YSD laid foundation Necromancers, who were originally one faction of the Wizards that seceded during the Schism of the Seven, a split between the followers of Sar-Elam; another faction went to the southern desert, where the Seven Cities, the first kingdom of Magic, was established. Necromancy itself, however, was not discovered until much later, namely 461 YSD."

So in a sense, we are both right. There were Necromancers in 62 YSD but Necromancy magic really took off in 461 YSD.
Remember that this came from a wiki page, so it isn't that trustworthy on minor details, especially given the number of red-links that page has.

Also:
Necromancy itself, however, was not discovered until much later, namely 461 YSD.
Without Necromancy there can be no Necromancers, and thus no Necropolis.

Quote:
This part of the story has been retcon'd in Dark Messiah.
Gods, did they have to? I mean come on, the story was simple enough, surely they could have got away with just filling in a few extra details, or if they really needed a traitor, make it a now already named character who gets executed as soon as he's found out.


There had to be Necropolis' before 461 YSD. Here's an extract from Might & Magic themselves and not some wiki site:

"74 YSD - Mysterious Death of Sar-Shazzar: Sar-Shazzar dies in his sleep. When attendants attempt to move his body to the NECROPOLIS for preparation and burial, it crumbles to ashes."



Necropolis as the tomb were you put your death (like the valy of kings in Egypt, not as the Castle Necropolis

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whiterider
whiterider


Known Hero
death walks with me
posted February 08, 2011 03:59 PM

Quote:
I think you missed my point.  The things that I listed above (large creature bosses, rage bar, scroll & potions, etc) are things that Kings Bounty just had and have not been in Heroes yet, but are being added to H6.  H6 looks like a combination of Homm3, Homm5, and Kings Bounty to me.  I wouldn't be surprised if hero development requires different colored 'runes' for abilities, and these runes can also be found on the adventure map (like KB).  


I agree 1000% KB has unique ideas like the runes or might/mind/magic essence in the form of runes, the bosses on the battlefields with unique powers and the usage of objects on the battlefield. I am really sorry that they dont use the leadership value in Heroes 6. The spell system in KB is the best I have met in any game and I just love it - using crystals for spell upgrade and in the same time skills for this.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 08, 2011 04:00 PM

Quote:

Little question here: Do you guys prefer in stronghold the Roc/Thunderbird or the Wyvern/Pao-kai.


Neither.

What I dislike about Roc/Thunderbird is that they are two different mythological creatures compined into one. We could have had two monsters here. Both a Roc and a Thunderbird being two different, unrelated creatures. The upgrades could be named Greater Roc or Stormbird for the Thunderbird, you know, minor alterations to the name just like they usually do with others (Gorgon/Mighty Gorgon, Troglodyte/Infernal Troglodyte etc.). Same thing goes for everything else such as Hell Hound/Cerberus, Red Dragon/Black Dragon etc. I call this wasted potential about having many other different monsters in the game. I'm not arguing about it, simply because I suppose that in the HoMM worlds, they've been the same creatures. Just if it was up to me, I would not have done it like that.

On the Wyvern/Pao Kai creature, it really did not fit in so much. Although the Pao Kai was a great concept, that has to be said. They took a classic monster and gave it a touch of their creativity, something rare for H5. The downside is, we first had the Wyverns in the H3 Fortress, and still I feel that they always belonged there. And that if H3 Fortress was ever to return, they really must be a part of its line-up.

I do hope we see more of the Pao Kai though in H6. Even as a neutral. Part of the Campaign will take place in the Pao Islands too.

I think the Harpies are the best choice for a Stronghold Flyer unit. Even though they're core.


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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted February 08, 2011 04:19 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 16:31, 08 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Yeah, because medieval cities looked like metropolis right ?


  Ok, Ok I should have been more clear and make the distinction as to not be confused with the movie, but it's definition and notion that I was going after

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolis

EDIT
  A real life example of what I had in mind

http://www.bavaria.by/en/nuremberg-modern-metropolis-with-medieval-flair.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sighiºoara

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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted February 08, 2011 04:20 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 16:34, 08 Feb 2011.

Quote:
I agree 1000% KB has unique ideas like the runes or might/mind/magic essence in the form of runes, the bosses on the battlefields with unique powers and the usage of objects on the battlefield. I am really sorry that they dont use the leadership value in Heroes 6. The spell system in KB is the best I have met in any game and I just love it - using crystals for spell upgrade and in the same time skills for this.
King's Bounty is an excellent single-player game, most of these things will result in a huge mess if they are implemented in a TBS with strong multiplayer focus like Heroes. Whilst KB is not concerned about the balance at all, Heroes is.

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evinin
evinin


Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
posted February 08, 2011 05:26 PM

Today's screenshot is really, really beautiful. I'm starting to like the graphics very much.
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