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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 ... 177 178 179 180 181 ... 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 19, 2011 02:14 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I don't personally believe the red-head is an air elemental, as it appears to have some seashells in her hair

That's true... but I still prefer to think that this time elementals will have awesome models
So, I want to believe she is an elemental... and hope it's an air one, because if she (or other creature) is the water elemental that would mean we have 2 water elementals, and the Spring Spirit is still in the Sanctuary faction :S


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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2011 02:21 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 14:23, 19 Feb 2011.

Quote:

That's true... but I still prefer to think that this time elementals will have awesome models
So, I want to believe she is an elemental... and hope it's an air one, because if she (or other creature) is the water elemental that would mean we have 2 water elementals, and the Spring Spirit is still in the Sanctuary faction :S


I don't think that the Redhead is a any kind of elementals. If my theory (Christmas tree) is right then no way to be an Elemental. If you look the face on the tree you will see some kind of elven witch (look the ears). Also she has organic skin and these red suffs. The Elementals are natural forces, they don't have a skin, a hair, feathers.

I want the Shady and the Light elemental to be bosses. Then we have 4 regular elemental, Redhead and ?Phoenix?. I'm wondering about the Phoenix. Does 100% sure that the Phoenix is a neutral. Because this new white-bluesh coloration drive on me to think that could be posible to be a boss

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted February 19, 2011 04:17 PM

The "Siren"-creature will not be a replacement for the Spring-spirit in the naga lineup. The Spring-spirit is on the same christmas tree both un-upgraded and upgraded (with different coloring then the leaked artwork). So it stays. The red haired creature is a water elemental or a neutral creature, like a siren.

I´m sort of hoping that the elemental creatures are being tweaked so that they won´t just be called elementals. I´d rather they be elementals but have other names like Siren for the water elemental, the fire elemental could be Efreet, the wind elemental a Sylph (and so on). Just to make them feel a little more special.    

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mytheroes
mytheroes


Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2011 05:03 PM

Quote:
The "Siren"-creature will not be a replacement for the Spring-spirit in the naga lineup. The Spring-spirit is on the same christmas tree both un-upgraded and upgraded (with different coloring then the leaked artwork). So it stays. The red haired creature is a water elemental or a neutral creature, like a siren.


About both the base and upgraded version of Spring Spirit in the same tree. Well, the christmas tree leak is before the naga lineup leak. So at that time they might include Spring spirit in the naga lineup. But after the naga lineup leak, they could change this because of ppl negative response to spring spirit. Of course, this is only speculation, in the end the Spring spirit might actually stay in the naga lineup.  

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted February 19, 2011 06:09 PM

Quote:
I'm wondering if picking the skills and spells you want will work, or if it will end in everyone making the exact same "perfect build"?

My theory is: "The perfect build" will spawn "the build to counter the perfect build" which will give rise to the "counter-counter build" which will give rise to the "I did something different" build.

No seriously, even in HIII many people still ended up with having the options to build a hero close to their "desired" build but still deviated from it based upon which faction they were playing, if they took a might or a magic or even what artifacts they had aquired.

In HV were it was a LOT easier to build a hero to fit certain guidelines you still saw plenty of variety.
If not, the above will happen and people will figure out how to counter this FOO strategy.

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Yasmiel
Yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted February 19, 2011 08:24 PM

That is assuming that every build will have a counter? which rarely happens. I still think that skill trees rarely offer any real choice in actual game.
Even Blizzard didn't manage to kill cookie cutter specs in WoW and they patch the game constantly. So, it's doubtfull that Ubi will succeed in that since they aren't famous for bothering with frequent patches to their games. Yes, I'm still waiting for H5 patch

I hope I'm wrong

Anyhow it would be nice to have skill/spell system as next Q&A.

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted February 20, 2011 12:46 AM

Quote:
That is assuming that every build will have a counter? which rarely happens. I still think that skill trees rarely offer any real choice in actual game.
Even Blizzard didn't manage to kill cookie cutter specs in WoW and they patch the game constantly. So, it's doubtfull that Ubi will succeed in that since they aren't famous for bothering with frequent patches to their games. Yes, I'm still waiting for H5 patch

I hope I'm wrong

Anyhow it would be nice to have skill/spell system as next Q&A.


Blizzard's skill trees don't have enough room to deviate much from a cookie cutter in any spec, especially now that they force you to spend all your points up to 69 into a single tree before you can get a different tree.
Despite that, they managed to make actually almost have every cookie cutter spec say: "And spend the last 5 to 7 points wherever you wish".

Cookie cutter =/= uncounterable, every spec has it's weaknesses.
WoW actually for a game that is by base design nearly impossible to balance (as it's PVP and PVE elements clash horribly in the same character system) actually does a pretty good job of at least making sure that not one spec is significantly better then any other. (as there are 30 talent trees over 10 classes, that's pretty impressive, as there are at least 60 cookie cutter builds right now.)

Now remember, the new skill system is still based around the old, just the random element removed.
The old system had plenty of room for counters to specific strategies, provided you knew what your opponent was going for.
Can you name a HV tactic that is extremely hard to defend against when given equal army values and hero levels?
Initiative based things don't count they getting rid of the ATB system.

Which reminds me, they should implement something to allow you to propperly spy on an enemy hero and glean skill and artifact information from him, some kind of extra special thieves guild purchase maybe.

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted February 20, 2011 01:09 AM

Yes, most of it is true which kinda brings me back to my original point (my bad if i did not "tell" it well, english isn't my native after all).

Issue here is not will classes/advanced classes be viable, I'm sure most of them will. However I feel each of them will deviate to cookie cutter build - which in it's own merit, is ok and acceptable (more on this in last paragraph), but I'm not sure most people here realize the context of it.

Meta choice (class choice in heroes or spec choice in wow) functions well, but tree customization (layer below the meta choice) not as tightly related to that meta choice. (meaning every meta choice brings a tree with a same problem so picking different meta doesn't change the problem)

Heroes 5 had a choice of 8 really distinct play-styles (6 if we go by vanilla). I'm not sure the new system will match it, even though it has more options on paper. I'm afraid in H6 it will go down to 2 - whether i want to pick might or magic hero. Hopefully I will be proven wrong

Where it starts being a problem?
Starts when such system is advertised as huge upgrade over old one, when I feel it actually isn't big deal. Again, on its own it is ok, but cannot be used as viable replacement for quantity. I just haven't seen enough proof that the game will offer more variety and play value than the latest installment - since quantity was reduced, and on the other hand (as shown in this example of skills trees) improvement of choice (quality) is still to be seen.

Disclaimer:
Intent of this is not to spread pessimism (tho i know I sound like that . I really hope guys at BlackHole shut me up with a well made game.

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted February 20, 2011 09:33 AM


If there will be cookie cutter builds (which is extremely likely I admit) I'm personally thinking there will be around 2 to 4 per class.

Example, lets use Haven:

Might hero that splashes a bit of Light magic but focusses mostly of Offense and Defense related perks and abilities.
Balanced offense/defense build.

Might hero that focusses on "Miracles" (as said in the faction overview) and invents heavily into Defensive skills and Perks, aiming for creature conservation.

Might hero that focusses purely on Offense, Warmachines, Morale and Luck, letting Haven's innate toughness and support make up for his neglect of Defense.

I could imagine all three of the above to be roughly equally viable (to the point where it is hard to notice), it will be hard to test which is "Best" because one of the three will be much better versus an Inferno Magic Hero while another might suck versus it.
One will likely be much stronger when facing a Necro Might but fail against a Necro Magic.

Let alone their creature line-ups.


Now I'm not going to pretend there will be infinite variety, I'm not an idiot, but with the free building on an expanded version of the old skill system (as there will now be by the looks of it, more spells from the start + might hero oriented abilities) I think will provide us with more then just one viable build per class.

Like I said, I'm thinking 2 to 4 per class.

BUT I could easily be proven wrong, right now I'm feeling ok though, because in HV I often fooled around with different builds (provided you keep those in mind, you will rarely be presented with a level up that gives you 4 undesired options) and found a lot more viable then I thought, though admittedly some were just extremely powerful, like Inferno + Light magic.


One final note on this subject: IF they are truly intent on making it even more accessable and moddable then HV, I'll bet you we'll be seeing fan made balance patches to fix any glaring balance issues.

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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2011 05:31 PM

mmmm before I discussed about the balance. I concern more about few points here:
1. "Hero adv. class when is tied to reputation points.
Reputation points can be learned by helping NPCs or allowing neutral armies/monsters to escape(tears)."


Does that mean advance class progression is map design dependent? It seems to depend on how you put NPCs on the map.

2. "Each advanced class have 2 unique abilities, including one ultimate."
yet beforehand we got this:
"He can change his advanced class every ten level but not in the camp......"

I mean, you got 1 ultimate yet you can change the class every 10 levels? does that means you can get 2 ultimate ability? which make it not so "unique" anymore? Or is it just a typo or mistranslation that means "at least level 10" rather than "every 10 levels"?

3 etc (I will ask later when I remembered).

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 20, 2011 05:36 PM

1. Does that mean advance class progression is map design dependent? It seems to depend on how you put NPCs on the map.
Nope, that's just one of the various ways.

2. does that means you can get 2 ultimate ability? which make it not so "unique" anymore? Or is it just a typo or mistranslation that means "at least level 10" rather than "every 10 levels"?
That would be an obvious glitch if so
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Andy_Dandy
Andy_Dandy


Adventuring Hero
posted February 20, 2011 09:18 PM
Edited by Andy_Dandy at 21:22, 20 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Oh I don't know, Wizard, Warden and Field Marshall look like pretty good classes to have. Of course the difficulty with most of the H4 ones is that they were based around the hero rather than the creatures.


Yeah, it's so many exciting options for hero classes when you have the heroes fighting like the creatures on the field. God damn I love Heroes 4, the best heroes game so far (at least when played on one of my excellent selfmade maps, with heavily beefed up AI). A pitty the AI never understood the new features in the game, but you can say the same about alot of the fans as well.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted February 21, 2011 07:27 AM

Quote:
We are lucky, next week (from tomorrow till march 1.) will be a really good hungarian week because of many good things about a game. That is only I can say for now.... You will see too if you want...



I hope you are right cos I'm "hungary" for more information!

Coming up to March 2011 which was initial release date...so let's see how Ubihole handle the pressure! Think they should be alright, cos they're making the best game in the world! (Even better than King's Quest, Half-Life, Prince of Persia and StarControl 2!!)

Hoorah to the new week!

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hahakocka
hahakocka


Known Hero
posted February 21, 2011 08:56 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 10:06, 21 Feb 2011.

You can read the new informations in english too there. We are prepared. Click the first green tick(?). New infos will arrive 2-3 times in a day I think. The question marks shows the places of the future infos.

http://heroes.hardwired.hu/heroes6/leirasok/leirasok.php

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted February 21, 2011 09:02 AM

Wow, the Bloody Crystals comics show that actually some of the officials DOES have a sense of humor. A few more manifestations of this thing and I may even forgive them some of their poor decisions.
Thanks hahakocka, this will be quite useful. Better post it in the news topic, here it will get lost in the crowd.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted February 21, 2011 09:02 AM

Nice SC and Comic..
This one is actuely funny
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted February 21, 2011 09:07 AM

Haha yeah that comic was awesome, I really like the fact that they're making fun of their own decisions.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 21, 2011 09:12 AM

Yeah respect for the comic, I felt the first one was rather bland.

As for the screen CRAG HACK WHOOOO!

Just one of the many familiar artifacts you will see.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted February 21, 2011 09:25 AM

I know it has been mentioned before but, I'm seriously scared to death about that icon/button in the upper right corner of today's Screen shot.
But hopefully it's just some stupid "option" to connect rather then a "requirement" to connect.

In other words when will they tell us what it is?
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted February 21, 2011 09:27 AM
Edited by MrDragon at 09:36, 21 Feb 2011.

Like the female hero's portrait, very fitting for Haven yet shows individuality.
And now because I'm still campaigning for it.

I want her name, bio, class and specialization! (+maybe starting troops?)
GIVE ME HERO INFO DANGIT!

Edit: Important, I said this AGES ago with the igromir video, but it seems we have seperate stats for physical and magical damage as usual, but also for creatures. (I.E. creature stacks have a visible spellpower stat that can be boosted by skills/artifacts.)
I recall seeing two defensive and two offensive icons, this artifact seems to boost the physical offensive abilities.
I suspect this helmet will not improve the ranged damage output of say, Liches, probably does increase their melee damage though.

Ofcourse that is still speculating, but if you go back to the igromir video, you'll see what I mean.

Edit 2: LOWER RIGHT CORNER, 4 unidentified icons!
Looks like spells, 1 earth magic and two dark.
Also a red icon that might be either a fire magic or a might skill.
If my theory is correct, why can we see them on the adventure map? or are they adventure magicks?!
If I'm correct, it seems Haven heroes CAN learn Dark magic.

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