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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 ... 176 177 178 179 180 ... 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 18, 2011 09:25 PM
Edited by Elvin at 21:30, 18 Feb 2011.

I can understand why people are disappointed when it comes down to certain features, after all H6 leans more towards quality than quantity. Quite literally so.

But for every bad side there is a good one, think how many features that H6 has were missing from other games of the series or were not as advanced - some of which you have yet to hear.

4 advanced classes per faction with 2 unique abilities each, all with their own model, whether might/magic/male/female.
Reputation system actively affecting your skill path/spell effectiveness.
Reduction of micromanagement and smoother gameplay.
Each class having its own skill paths.
Skills/abilities no longer subject to useless requirements, you pick abilities according to your wishes.
Skills no longer subject to Lady Luck's whims.
No more first turn slaughters.
Many new additions to skills/spells.
Plenty of unit abilities, enriching combat depth.
In fact core, elite, champion system already adds to the tactical possibilities.
Unit synergy and champions no longer being powerhouses but instead promoting new strategies.
Cool might and magic references/heroes/items returning.
Dynamic battlefield bring into battle new twists.
Return of text boxes and highly detailed descriptions in unit/hero bios.
New cool catapults.
User friendly and powerful editor.
Innovation in faction gameplay/lineups.
Shortcuts for favourite spells/abilities.

While ubi obviously cannot please us all they are listening and making sure that what we wish for most will appear in the future even if not in time for the game's release. All in all it's not ALL that bad.
RMG, neutrals, factions we can get later, for now we have a solid base to build upon.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 18, 2011 09:26 PM
Edited by MattII at 21:42, 18 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Replay-ability might indeed suffer.
Yeah, because you can't play mix-and-match with you own faction[/sarcasm] Seriously people, look at the way the factions can play, even on just core units:
1/3-1/3-1/3
1/2-1/4-1/4 (in three setups)
1/5-2/5-2/5 (in three setups)
3/5-1/5-1/5 (in three setups)
That's like 10 ways of playing, and then you get elite units on top of that...

There are just a few items on elvin's list that I don't like:
Quote:
1. Reputation system actively affecting your skill path/spell effectiveness.
2. Each class having its own skill paths.
3. Many new additions to skills/spells.
1. If I'm going to be in control of my own destiny, I want complete control, not some system where how I turn out depends on how well I beg for help from some digital waif.
2. Why shouldn't my Cleric be allowed to get offensive or my Necromancer Light Magic?
3. Spells are now perks, so we aren't going to be able to get that many.

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted February 18, 2011 09:36 PM

Thanks Elvin. Someone was needed to boost their moral.

As for release date of may 2011 it isn't official so I don't think that we should pay any attention to it...
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted February 18, 2011 09:39 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 21:40, 18 Feb 2011.

Awesome post Elvin I suggest a QP for yo... Oh wait
Seriously I like all these new changes so much, that I can't really express it. I had a plan a while ago for a thread where I was supposed to praise all these new things, unfortunately I was too lazy.
Oh my god, this game is great!

I can't wait for information on new spells.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted February 18, 2011 10:32 PM
Edited by Yaeliccc at 22:49, 18 Feb 2011.

Quote:
I can understand why people are disappointed when it comes down to certain features, after all H6 leans more towards quality than quantity. Quite literally so.

But for every bad side there is a good one, think how many features that H6 has were missing from other games of the series or were not as advanced - some of which you have yet to hear.

4 advanced classes per faction with 2 unique abilities each, all with their own model, whether might/magic/male/female.
Reputation system actively affecting your skill path/spell effectiveness.
Reduction of micromanagement and smoother gameplay.
Each class having its own skill paths.
Skills/abilities no longer subject to useless requirements, you pick abilities according to your wishes.
Skills no longer subject to Lady Luck's whims.
No more first turn slaughters.
Many new additions to skills/spells.
Plenty of unit abilities, enriching combat depth.
In fact core, elite, champion system already adds to the tactical possibilities.
Unit synergy and champions no longer being powerhouses but instead promoting new strategies.
Cool might and magic references/heroes/items returning.
Dynamic battlefield bring into battle new twists.
Return of text boxes and highly detailed descriptions in unit/hero bios.
New cool catapults.
User friendly and powerful editor.
Innovation in faction gameplay/lineups.
Shortcuts for favourite spells/abilities.

While ubi obviously cannot please us all they are listening and making sure that what we wish for most will appear in the future even if not in time for the game's release. All in all it's not ALL that bad.
RMG, neutrals, factions we can get later, for now we have a solid base to build upon.


most of that sounded good, hence

BUUUUUUUUUT since coins have two sides lets hear the other head of the cerberus as well

1. heroes classes and genders - was it really that hard to make all the heroes unique ? why have only the campaign heroes look different on the map and within the combat ? the franchise is about the heroes yet heroes have general features ? "im a female warrior and so is my brother, u ask whats the difference between us, ohh its easy he's taller by a few centimetars and i have two circles on my chest indicating im a female , yes i indeed do have a sister as well, u want to know whats different between me and my sister oh well she has other skills, blonde hair, wields a different weapon but dont worry since we're the same class u wont see any difference between is if u see us in a combat... yes its coz we wish to surprise u"(sarcasm)
2. new creatures, awesome, where are the creatures we all love ? if u make a thread about fav creatures will u not find out that aprox 5/10 from the top list of all times are missing ?
3. diversity within factions is there much of it or was it a lack of creativity on their side ?
4. the story ? demons bad, everybody fighting the bad demons, why ? cant there be stories with no invasions ? are we not fed up with the bad bad demon stigma ? let them demons be, they had a tough "chaotic" life lets not make them the bad guys again, why do we need a bad guy ? use some creativity and theres no need for the bad guy at all
5. 5 factions ? since homm1 we didnt have 5 factions, i understand the concept of "new gaming age" where they make a game, cut 40% of it and call it an expension to milk more money... I get it but I dont like it one bit
6. 10 maps ? there will be maps added, there will be an editor, there are many compelling arguments indeed however the fact remains the same - 10 maps
7. random map generator - i dont even use it, it doesnt live up to my high standards of maps but many ppl do
8. where is that marketing ? i found out about the game by mistake, i have yet to hear of any buzz about the game and i really want them to succeed so the franchise will stay alive
9. number of creatures ? i understand french ppl are workin on it and i get that they cant live without the wine but i wont be playing drunk so i wont be seeing double the number of creatures in my game
10. bosses ? its an interesting concept, i really like the bosses/creatures i've seen so far but i cant recruit them, i cant buy them, i will encounter them once per map in teh best case scenario ? IMO opinion its a waste of creatures, phoenix is one of my fav (besides the fried chicken one in 4) creatures, bosses are awesome so why cant we have them ? i want to have them in my army and use them, i dont wanna see the boss once in my lifetime, kill him and forget about him... i want to use him otherwise its a waste of a pretty cool creature
11. where is the sexy poisonous medusa ? im just kidding

so yes there are a couple of cute things, a couple of awesome things, but as well there are couple of things i would like to see improved... things that wont be improved ever... will we all buy the game, of course we will !!!! should we settle and compromise ? hell no, is there a way to please us all ? hell no, but ur asking us to look at the bright side while there are people in here, actual ppl who are starting to develop symptoms of a horrible "lack of creatures disease" will their mothers not cry if they are lost to the disease ? have some heart elvin, show empathy towards us the fans instead of towards the evil empire of developers... in the words of moses when setting free the slaves "LET MY PEOPLE RANT" !!!!

Edit - while writing this text down no actual animals were harmed, one white chocolate dissapeared but the producing cow claims it was a nice milking session... done gently and with a smile...
if anybody is feeling offended on a personal level by this message it is suggested to hit the closest wall with your head three times, that will diminish any pain or memory of this text hence heal u from the negative effects
this message is to be taken in a humoristic as well as in a serious way, finding out what is what is all on u...

P.S. treatmant for the horrible disease roaming the pages of homm community is yet to be found but the greatest minds are workin on a cure... it is advised not to panic...

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted February 18, 2011 10:51 PM
Edited by Sleeping_Sun at 22:52, 18 Feb 2011.

@Yaeliccc
1. I agree with you on this one
2. Same creatures over and over isn't good, and in fact it's not better than 50% new and 50% old...
3. This is the best lineup so far. Nothing more to say...
4. You haven't seen the H6 story so you can't judge it... yet. You can only say what was in H5 but that game had different approach than this one.
5. They work on balancing the faction and making them unique. This is understandable...
6. 10 maps. So what. They go on quality rather than quantity, and I see that is the best approach. You can have 100 maps but that none of them is playable/balanced/whatever....
7. We got editor, for now that is reasonable replacement for RMG...
8. I agree with the marketing issue. Nevertheless I believe that they have plan/strategy or something...
9. Why are people being obsessed with number of creatures these days?
10. It's everything but waste. Think a little...
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted February 18, 2011 10:58 PM
Edited by Yaeliccc at 23:01, 18 Feb 2011.

Quote:
@Yaeliccc
1. I agree with you on this one
2. Same creatures over and over isn't good, and in fact it's not better than 50% new and 50% old...
3. This is the best lineup so far. Nothing more to say...
4. You haven't seen the H6 story so you can't judge it... yet. You can only say what was in H5 but that game had different approach than this one.
5. They work on balancing the faction and making them unique. This is understandable...
6. 10 maps. So what. They go on quality rather than quantity, and I see that is the best approach. You can have 100 maps but that none of them is playable/balanced/whatever....
7. We got editor, for now that is reasonable replacement for RMG...
8. I agree with the marketing issue. Nevertheless I believe that they have plan/strategy or something...
9. Why are people being obsessed with number of creatures these days?
10. It's everything but waste. Think a little...


i will not go into the other numbers coz its a matter of opinions but i will however ask u about number 10, do u not find the bosses as cool ? wouldnt u like to use them in your army ? lets say they added a building that will cost a lot of money and that u will have to wait till u get her but eventually u would be able to build it and then choose one of the two bosses representing your faction when u can recruit them 1 per 2 weeks or smth ? wouldnt u prefer that over seeing them once per map... maybe once per map ?? I like the phoenix i want to have it as my pet why not make it available ?

edit :  why not add a cool building that will allow u to recruit neutrals, like elves had in homm4 ? u get to choose what u want, everybody has it, adds depth, adds fun, and u get to use awesome creatures in combat instead of seeing them somewhere along the way and hoping u can maybe one day recruit one... u dont see it that way ?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 18, 2011 11:07 PM

Yael, you are transforming into a lovely butterfly

A few clarifications on what you wrote, which are pretty valid points as well.

- I'll have to mention that I do not like this faceless approach to heroes, it's like they are all covered in armour and helmets to hide their skin deformities But further hero customization is probably too much to ask, as much as I'd like it there are more important things in my priority list and resources are limited. At least we can still choose start skills, special and portrait which is a step forward.

- Many old favourites missing but a lot of new blood introduced as well. Plus more are promised for later

- It is not so much a matter of diversity rather than lineup policy. This is more of preference matter.

- There is much about the story that you do not know yet I'm pretty excited from what I've heard.

- Marketing.. Well it has been no 2 in popularity on gamespot for quite a while now. Could be better, could be worse.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted February 18, 2011 11:09 PM

An idea just hit me!
What if you have an 30+ level hero or something and just scrap your current army.
Instead of having 7 stacks of ordinary and weak units. You just have a single über boss with you.

Haha Awesome idea right?

(note: there could maybe be more then just one boss in the stack. Subject to balance)
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 18, 2011 11:15 PM

Quote:
9. number of creatures ? i understand french ppl are workin on it and i get that they cant live without the wine but i wont be playing drunk so i wont be seeing double the number of creatures in my game.

Couldn't help but lol at this.

That being said, I just think we have to accept that unless you're developing the game yourself singlehandedly, you'll never get everything exactly as you want it. It always has to be a compromise between different peoples wishes.

Sure, there are things I hate also. They can say what they want, I still want my four rare resources back, and I demand my right to sulk like a baby that they took them away. I'm myself not keen on the boss idea either, I'm afraid it'll eat up good creatures and abilities that could instead have gone into another faction or at least made some good recruitable neutrals. I'm hescitant about the new magic system with close to a gazilion new schools, and I liked the old way of learning spells through the Mage Guild just fine. I'm not too keen on the endless amount of humanoid creatures using the same model, and I could go on.

But on the other hand, there are also a lot of good things to say about the game, and as long as they make it reasonable moddable and the game actually runs stabily, I have hopes for the future.
____________
What will happen now?

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 18, 2011 11:35 PM
Edited by kodial79 at 23:39, 18 Feb 2011.

4 advanced classes per faction, makes for 20 different classes. 2 unique abilities per advanced class, makes for 40 unique abilities. Different male and female models per advanced class, makes for 40 different models, excluding the campaign heroes' unique models. And all that in just 5 factions. More skill trees, more spells, more abilities for heroes and creatures. One faction of H6 equals at least 2 factions from previous games and people say that they're not being creative? I don't know about you, but I'm impressed and I say that they were never more creative than they are now.

Expansions and new factions are promised. I believe it's not much to say that in the end, in the complete edition, we're going to have 8 factions. Which means 32 different classes, 52 unique abilities and different models, again not counting their special abilities and the campaign heroes' models. Even more skills trees, spells, abilities for heroes and creatures.

We have 35 creatures now that belong to factions, plus 8 neutrals and 8 bosses. Not counting upgrades. If the factions reach 8, that most likely they will, then add 21 more creatures that belong to factions, not counting upgrades, and that makes for 56 creatures total. Now if we assume that 2 neutrals and 2 bosses go per faction, then we're going to have 6 more neutrals and 6 more bosses. (I don't think it's too much for them to add 2 new neutrals and bosses per faction in expansions). That makes for 14 neutrals and 14 bosses in total. 28 neutrals and bosses then, plus 56 faction creatures and that makes for 84 creatures all n' all, when with expansions the factions are going to be 8.

Will this not be a record for the series, in both quantity and diversity?

And imagine if there's going to be 9 factions instead, that some people been saying...



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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 18, 2011 11:50 PM

I'm just saying, we're getting into some very high numbers here...

If one faction alone brings so much on the table, then really, no wonder they're starting only with 5. But expansions will come, Sylvan and Dungeon are returning for sure. Academy maybe, too. At least, I'm willing to bet that Academy will return. We're really talking about some big numbers....
____________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted February 19, 2011 12:49 AM
Edited by SwampLord at 00:49, 19 Feb 2011.

Quote:
With later expansions introducing more factions, there's gonna be more creatures, more neutrals, more bosses. How many times do we need to say that? I'm pretty sure that by the end, there's gonna be more creatures than ever.


Depends on how many towns they add and whether we get alt upgrades, in my opinion.

To compete with ToTE in terms of creature variety there needs to be at least 2 towns and alternate upgrades added.

I sincerely hope alternate upgrades return, because they were a great mechanic, but the initial lack of them makes me unsure.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted February 19, 2011 01:00 AM

Who cares when? They're already planning on it and that's for sure. Marzhin indirectly confirmed it in the latest Q&A. So in half a year, one or two, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they will come.

Remember Heroes V got released in May 2006. Hammers of Fate in November 2006. Tribes of the East, October 2007. Now, I suppose it's going to take them more than that since they're doing a a lot more work than Nival ever did on it. Like I said, one faction now is like 2 of the previous ones. Slowly maybe but surely, expansions will arrive: 2 new factions for sure, 3 very likely and maybe even 4...

In the end, we're going to have more creatures than ever. Of that I'm sure.
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Yasmiel
Yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted February 19, 2011 01:34 AM

Well i see most people are still optimistic. Good .

However my points about extremely low amount of creatures and replay-ability weren't just rumblings of an angry fan (actually I'm quite hyped about the game I'm always looking at the game as a whole, and i think all 5 previous games had its charm even though they were different.
From DM/mapmaker perspective, as it stands, fan-fiction is quite limited by the low ammount of creatures, which is furthermore lowered by creatures that don't fit anything outside Ashan. Even 2 old game creatures with similar abilities count as 2 creatures from mapmaking story perspective, while 1 creature even if better and more complete can never reach that number.

I still believe many of the game improvements regarding hero choices are going to stay on paper, and cookie cutter specs will render that "benefit" nearly useless.

Hopefully mechanics improvements will overcome the quantity weakness, but doubts are allowed


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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2011 02:09 AM
Edited by Wckey at 02:12, 19 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Elvin, is it allowed to post the christmas tree (or part of it) because imo there is a conection between the red feathered beast from yesterday's screenshot and the tree

Since we can post, or at least that was what I understood...

I would say she has nothing to do with the feathered creature, except the coincidence in colors.
I don't think none of these are heroes, because all of the balls, except those two we don't know nothing about yet, are creatures. Besides, if there were heroes in the tree, I believe the tree would also have some main heroes.

The Light creature will probably be a boss, since most of the bosses are something like an upgrade of factions' creatures.
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Come back soon, Elvin!

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted February 19, 2011 06:07 AM
Edited by Kenishi at 06:09, 19 Feb 2011.

Quote:
And now, here comes "Not enough creatures" depression disease...


   Elvin's post whit all the benefits and the new features saved me .

  At that moment a bad felling  came over me the idea of playing against the same armies over,and over,and over and over again ...still I'm not going to go in a depression and I already have this feeling the game is going to be good  hence I already per-ordered it.

@kodial79 all the numbers are nice and dandy (O and also ... if ...is not much trouble could you give me ...like the wining lottery numbers ... ) and I really hope they are true but between the lunch of H6 and a expansion, presumably, I'm not going to play much else just H6 so ea boredom is my grates enemy and if they would have started with 14 neutrals would have been much batter then 8 of which at list 4 (fire,earth,air,water) are summon-able through magic skill the hero learns (if I deduced it correctly from the skill pic.).

  So to close it up I might have been overwhelmed by a felling of panic that I'll get bored really fast of the game but now that I'm cooled off and thinking and taking in consideration that there are a lot of talented people out there that can mod really well and made some stunning creatures it can be avoided, and as Elvin mention there are a lot of improvements and new features to ... well play with, so I'll leave it at that and hope for the best.
____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted February 19, 2011 07:31 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 07:37, 19 Feb 2011.

Quote:
4 advanced classes per faction, makes for 20 different classes. 2 unique abilities per advanced class, makes for 40 unique abilities. Different male and female models per advanced class, makes for 40 different models, excluding the campaign heroes' unique models. And all that in just 5 factions. More skill trees, more spells, more abilities for heroes and creatures. One faction of H6 equals at least 2 factions from previous games and people say that they're not being creative? I don't know about you, but I'm impressed and I say that they were never more creative than they are now.

We have 35 creatures now that belong to factions, plus 8 neutrals and 8 bosses. Not counting upgrades. If the factions reach 8, that most likely they will, then add 21 more creatures that belong to factions, not counting upgrades, and that makes for 56 creatures total. Now if we assume that 2 neutrals and 2 bosses go per faction, then we're going to have 6 more neutrals and 6 more bosses. (I don't think it's too much for them to add 2 new neutrals and bosses per faction in expansions). That makes for 14 neutrals and 14 bosses in total. 28 neutrals and bosses then, plus 56 faction creatures and that makes for 84 creatures all n' all, when with expansions the factions are going to be 8.

Will this not be a record for the series, in both quantity and diversity?

And imagine if there's going to be 9 factions instead, that some people been saying...




I am in agreement with you Kodial on this one.....I think it will be a record in quantity and diversity....by the time they have the expansions done, we'll have all the factions. I mean Ashan has Grimheim (Dwarves), Irollan (Elves), Yggshall (Dark Elves) and Silver Cities (Wizards) so they will all come. 2 factions per expansion and there we have it!

Besides, some creatures from previous Heroes games didn't have any special qualities at all, in H6 it seems that every single creature has some unique skill that adds to the strategy of playing.

Not to mention, the Core and Elite groups, how to balance the creatures in the Core units as they compliment each other, do we go for more shooters or more support creatures, etc.

By the time the 2nd expansion is here there'll be 71 creatures plus 8 bosses = 79 creatures! This is what we need to aim at.....no-one is playing H5 HoF anymore, it's H5 ToE that's played now......

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 19, 2011 09:04 AM

Quote:
Upgrades usually have the same position/face/expression of the base creature.

Also, it might be a boss because she is the most shiny creature in the game (seriously, compared to her, glory is dark ).

However, none of the known creatures in the tree are bosses, so there's a big chance that "The most shiny creature" isn't a boss neither.

I think this (highlighted) is a very good point, and I fully agree. If #9 is indeed the creature on the rocks, then it seems all of these are regular creatures, which would indicate to me that #11 is also a creature, which only leaves one possibility ... Light Elemental.

(A lot of 'if's here, though ...)
____________
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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted February 19, 2011 11:45 AM

Im sure that H6 will be better than H1 or H4 and probably H5 maybe H2 and a chance to beat H3.
Like Kodial said I know believe that a faction is worth 2 factions but I also agree that that MOAR CREATTURES ARE NEEDED
This game is gonna stink of so much AWESOMENESS!
The creatures are tied togeter withaut being monotonic and I agree with the reduction of resources (In H3 if you play dungeon and find a gem mine what do you do with it?) but I hate the 4 boring Elementals!

Sorry going trough a optimistic/pessimist shift every 5 seconds

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