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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 ... 343 344 345 346 347 ... 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 05, 2011 08:14 AM

Quote:
Quote:
I just hope that the growth bonus does not require the hero to be in the city, I always hated that functionality in H5.

Also while +6 may not scale it is certainly stronger early game than the fire bonus and I think it's ok to have heroes who are stronger early adn some that are stronger later.

Problem with things that don't scale it's too cheap to just buy the hero as a secondary, and get the full bonus without putting any effort into leveling him up. If bonus is, say, +1 cerberus growth for every 3 levels, you would have to put some ressources into the hero to have the full gain.


The abilities probably do scale though, so +4 leadership grows as the hero grows....+6 cerberi per week grows to, so at level 10 it might be +30 cerberi per week.....it does seem like there are more troops (throng - legion) in alot of scenes (boss fight, demon town screen).

Just a thought, with all the Duel maps that were created by Elvin and others, I wonder how one would impliment H6 in a duel map wrt. reputation, I mean how do you choose the blood and tears as you visit the sphinx to level to 21!

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 05, 2011 08:54 AM

No double deck, they probably do scale but not grow.
(scale =/= grow)
Lord Haart's +4 Leadership is a scaling benefit purely because at later stages of the game he has larger creature stacks benefitting from it.
So the benefit scaled directly in proportion to his army strength.
So it will most likely stay +4, but the effect of that +4 scales up.
If the leadership bonus grows they would have written it down as for example: +1 Leadership every three hero levels.

Growing benefits scale exponentially as not only does the bonus increase but the army/spell benefitting from it increases too.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 05, 2011 10:44 AM

Quote:
No double deck, they probably do scale but not grow.
(scale =/= grow)
Lord Haart's +4 Leadership is a scaling benefit purely because at later stages of the game he has larger creature stacks benefitting from it.
So the benefit scaled directly in proportion to his army strength.
So it will most likely stay +4, but the effect of that +4 scales up.
If the leadership bonus grows they would have written it down as for example: +1 Leadership every three hero levels.

Growing benefits scale exponentially as not only does the bonus increase but the army/spell benefitting from it increases too.


Okay, with you on this one, what about the creature growth per week...maybe it starts at +6 but "grows" to +30....seems silly to have a static +6 creatures per week (rather use as a secondary hero then)...

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 05, 2011 11:00 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 11:05, 05 May 2011.

Quote:
Okay, with you on this one, what about the creature growth per week...maybe it starts at +6 but "grows" to +30....seems silly to have a static +6 creatures per week (rather use as a secondary hero then)...

From what we've seen so far, the specializations don't seem "gamebreaking", so a +6 Cerberi/week seems quite in line

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 05, 2011 11:01 AM

Then they wouldn't have written it as +6 but as +1 per two hero levels or something.
Unless they change it, it's obviously a flat, non-growing specialization.
And +6 is presumably pretty strong, especially in the first few weeks even if it's just core creatures (which according to screenshots seem to be on par with roughly tier 3 creatures from older games) in very late stages of the game it might not be, but MAYBE it scales with your towns, as in, if you have two inferno towns, both get the +6 cerberi benefit.
That might be a possiblity.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 05, 2011 11:08 AM

I am not sure about these "static" abilities, they should increase somehow.
I mean look at Deleb's ability, hers grow with Fire Magic.

If +6 cerberi is static, then people will always use Lorhish as a secondary hero.

@MrDragon - interesting post, if it applies to all towns/dwellings you own, then it might seem scalable, but still, would use secondary hero for this speciality.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 05, 2011 11:12 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 11:26, 05 May 2011.

Quote:
I mean look at Deleb's ability, hers grow with Fire Magic.

Why would it grow ? It seems to be a flat X% damage to fire spells, not X% per level.

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Karanshade
Karanshade


Adventuring Hero
posted May 05, 2011 11:25 AM
Edited by Karanshade at 11:29, 05 May 2011.

Quote:
No double deck, they probably do scale but not grow.
(scale =/= grow)
Lord Haart's +4 Leadership is a scaling benefit purely because at later stages of the game he has larger creature stacks benefitting from it.


uh ?
the  +4 leadership is not scaling at all it affects max 7 stacks of creatures all the game ^^ So it doesn t lose its advantage if that s what you mean
Scaling does by definition imply kind of a growth with an another parameter somehow
If u really want to have it 'scale' with something , it scales with the number of stacks u have in your army, but you tend to reach your optimal number rather early imo

But ok it s more interresting to have your 25 dragons to play another turn than say your starting 27 goblins
If we follow our reasoning then all of the flat bonus can be seen as scaling , +x% fire damage is flat , but since you tend to do more magic damage endgame then you deal more bonus damage ... it still is a flat bonus tough
(/end semantic trolling)

____________

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 05, 2011 11:26 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 11:27, 05 May 2011.

Also just to say, none of the 6 specializations we've seen so far seems to grow with levels. Jaywoods and Scatha have a starting ability that will most likely have a bonus (so Jaywoods' Enlightenment skill will be X% stronger than any other heroes', same with Scatha's Agony skill). The other heroes have a flat bonus (4 morale, 6 creatures/week, X% to fire magic)

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 05, 2011 11:38 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 11:40, 05 May 2011.

Still it's not the same whether you'll have fixed bonus to some creature growth or to some spell efficiency (just for example). Even if the the spell efficiency bonus is constant, the spells themselves will become more powerful via other means and thus the augmentation will be applied to something which does not have the same value all the time, i.e. the speciality efficiency is improved indirectly as the hero levels up. The same can not be said for the creature growth specialities as we see them now, because they are not dependant on the hero level but purely on the town development. Hence, a hero with a static +X to creature Y will hardly ever be chosen for a main hero, except if he/she doesn't have access to some other useful "sub-skills" (Adela - Bless? Weak! Adela - Diplomacy? Woo, niiiice!).

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 05, 2011 11:47 AM

Quote:
Then they wouldn't have written it as +6 but as +1 per two hero levels or something.
Unless they change it, it's obviously a flat, non-growing specialization.
And +6 is presumably pretty strong, especially in the first few weeks even if it's just core creatures (which according to screenshots seem to be on par with roughly tier 3 creatures from older games) in very late stages of the game it might not be, but MAYBE it scales with your towns, as in, if you have two inferno towns, both get the +6 cerberi benefit.
That might be a possiblity.

Yes, this is exactly what I thought also, only if the +6 bonus applies to all towns, there will be some sort of scaling. On the other hand, things that grow with army size, like Leadership bonus, seems much more usefull in long run. But ok, maybe they wanted to give player the option for picking a short-term usefull hero (good for small maps, rushing, etc.) or a long-term usefull hero (better on large maps).

Quote:
Hence, a hero with a static +X to creature Y will hardly ever be chosen for a main hero, except if he/she doesn't have access to some other useful "sub-skills" (Adela - Bless? Weak! Adela - Diplomacy? Woo, niiiice!).

Did you ever try to put a level 50 Adela with a legion of Sprites into combat? Let me just say the result was potentially quite devastating.
____________
What will happen now?

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lordriton
lordriton


Known Hero
posted May 05, 2011 12:10 PM
Edited by lordriton at 12:11, 05 May 2011.

I played tons of h3 games,  but i don't remember only one time that i had Adela with a legion of sprites    (she is a castle hero, sprites beeing from conflux)

Casting an expert bless on the start of a battle is for sur a very strong move,  the hero beeing Adela or not  


Oh,  and lvl 50..  guess you were not talking of H3  
____________
Sorry for my miserable english, i'm french.

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 05, 2011 12:16 PM
Edited by MrDragon at 12:27, 05 May 2011.

Quote:
Still it's not the same whether you'll have fixed bonus to some creature growth or to some spell efficiency (just for example). Even if the the spell efficiency bonus is constant, the spells themselves will become more powerful via other means and thus the augmentation will be applied to something which does not have the same value all the time, i.e. the speciality efficiency is improved indirectly as the hero levels up. The same can not be said for the creature growth specialities as we see them now, because they are not dependant on the hero level but purely on the town development. Hence, a hero with a static +X to creature Y will hardly ever be chosen for a main hero, except if he/she doesn't have access to some other useful "sub-skills" (Adela - Bless? Weak! Adela - Diplomacy? Woo, niiiice!).

More or less what I was trying to say, this should be pretty clear.
I tend to throw out to much jargon.
Thanks Xeno.

Edit: Also, no heroes today? just a screenshot we have nothing to glean from?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 05, 2011 12:17 PM

I was ... there were some epic scale maps that would bring you to level 50 or even beyond. And I did indeed once have Adela with something like 10K Sprites, and they delt incredible damage. But yeah, that was not your standard game - and anyway, we're going off topic here.
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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 05, 2011 01:03 PM

Human Sanctuary heroes ...

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 05, 2011 01:07 PM

Quote:
Still it's not the same whether you'll have fixed bonus to some creature growth or to some spell efficiency (just for example). Even if the the spell efficiency bonus is constant, the spells themselves will become more powerful via other means...

Whereas the units won't? I beg to differ, just like a hero can get spellpower and possibly fire-boosting arties he could also get attack/luck/damage boosters.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2011 01:13 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 13:17, 05 May 2011.

According to EvilP post in Artwork thread, China is privileged than other countries again.

Google translater is a weak that's why don't want to post in Information thread. The translate is raw so I'll post it here:

SANCTUARY

Yougen


BIO: the Empire, especially the fundamental performance should be Narui Ya group "Waves of Silk" in a dancer. The troupe composed entirely of human beings there are hundreds of men and women, each year they will leave the submarine palace in the eternal peace of the Queen came to inspect the surface of the water on the occasion of the island under the rule of two grand performances.
       However, one day this big-name theater has suffered a massive assassination, the reasons for the tragedy still no one knows.
       As one of the only three survivors, You Gencheng to a Mingsuolasa priests, for their own miraculously survived to thank the blessing of the water of the Dragon.
       Her eternal trio still require that survived the first year for her performance, and this is now the only Yougen dancing in public places.
       There are rumors that his dance was so full of sadness, even tears dragon eel are worth.

Specialization: Master Ling Quan (Quan Zhou Ling and water output God +3)
------------------------------------------------------

Jingchuang

BIO: Born in a lawless pirate groups Jingchuang, in a small boat when it was obtained solely by her command of the warship. Those from the seven cities through the League of looting Jade Ocean sailing merchant ships, she has accumulated a myriad of "trophy."
       However, at this time, her life a great change has ushered in: she was a giant warship swallowed by sea monsters, and when she woke up, actually found himself living in an ocean floor of the Naga in the name palace.
       Jingchuang very lucky to be alive, but soon she realized that the prisoner is under the order. 5 years in prison, the Jingchuang Naga tribe in the underwater cultural influence under profound insight into far more than mortal knowledge, and finally she was freed, but her name also granted a small island in any of what they do.

Specialization: risk-takers (land and sea mobility +2)
------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------

STRONGHOLD

Mate Wa

BIO: Young Mate Wa have the wisdom of ancient, tribal warriors are a plus for his trust, or it can be said reverently fear him.
       It is said that when the orc shaman infant baby just when he first heard in dreams the voice of the anger of the ancestors.
       6 years old, Ma Tewa completed his first dream trip, but this time not wearing any mask twisted deformation of the experience also left him full of lightning-shaped scar on the chest.
       As a wise and astute words of speakers and artists, Ma Tewa absorb the hundreds of thousands of orcs share warriors and shaman storyteller wisdom.
       He often joked that, until the day the mountain orcs to dominate Asia, and he will be able to complaints from a group of guys.

Specialization: Master of Tap dreamer (dream of riding a dream and catch output Zhou* +3)
---------------------------------------------------

Mocha

BIO: Mocha was born in a Lanna Er plain Libertarian Horde, with marvelous hunting skills, she won the Centaur orcs and their own position.
       One day, a group of orcs from the roar fled the island to her village, and describes how they were attacked, the children were sold into slavery story. Out of anger that can not stand the shame of Mocha, the father of her soul to the sky and swear, as long as he still has breath in, do not let even an orc shackled with leg irons.
       She led a small group of troops to the south immediately initiate the search, however, in the process of crossing the mountains, Mocha and her brave troops have been ambushed by the Duke wolf, almost all killed or captured.
       Mocha naturally become miners managed to escape, the use of cross-ho killed seven guards, she rode Centaur is run.
       Now, as a roar settled the island residents, a champion of anti-power, Mocha is encourage and inspire all who dream of liberty with the orcs.
Specialization: Battle Cry Master (to enhance the effect of magic Cry)

Once ogain, this is a raw translate from google.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 05, 2011 01:18 PM

Quote:
Specialization: Master of Tap dreamer (dream of riding a dream and catch output Zhou* +3)
    * Probably Zhou are Goblins. Who knows

Most likely Dreamwalkers, so +3 Dreamwalkers / week.

Which would then make :
Quote:
Specialization: Master Ling Quan (Quan Zhou Ling and water output God +3)

+3 Spring Spirits / week

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 05, 2011 01:20 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 13:26, 05 May 2011.

Quote:
Whereas the units won't? I beg to differ, just like a hero can get spellpower and possibly fire-boosting arties he could also get attack/luck/damage boosters.
There's quite a difference - you can still have the same increased amount of, say, Cerberi with some other hero who will be equally capable of getting more Attack, Defense, etc., only if the hero who is actually increasing their growth is present in your "retinue", no matter that he's sitting on his ass in the capitol without gaining even a single point of XP. And that's what is likely to be the standard scenario.
Quote:
Did you ever try to put a level 50 Adela with a legion of Sprites into combat? Let me just say the result was potentially quite devastating.
Nah, I hate both Castle and Conflux for the same reason - they are boring and are made for rookies. Moreover, we usually don't allow heroes with Diplomacy as a starting skill in a MP game (and learning the skill itself actually). Though I can imagine the pain that a legion of Sprites can deliver... but then again any legion could deliver a lot of pain.

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2011 01:25 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 13:29, 05 May 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Specialization: Master of Tap dreamer (dream of riding a dream and catch output Zhou* +3)
    * Probably Zhou are Goblins. Who knows

Most likely Dreamwalkers, so +3 Dreamwalkers / week.

Which would then make :
Quote:
Specialization: Master Ling Quan (Quan Zhou Ling and water output God +3)

+3 Spring Spirits / week


Yeah, you're probably right for both specializations because creature boost is only +3 and the key words like Tap dreamer and water god

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