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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 ... 397 398 399 400 401 ... 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Crayfish
Crayfish


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2011 04:26 PM

Quote:
It's a good thing the phoenix has been repeatedly confirmed as a champion neutral. If not everyone and their dog would consider it a summon


All summonable creatures have been neutral throughout heroes. H5 phoenix was a tier 7 neutral (so far as I recall).

Why would/does the phoenix being a neutral creature make it unsummonable?

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 07, 2011 04:28 PM

Quote:
Why would/does the phoenix being a neutral creature make it unsummonable?

All summonable creatures are neutral =/= All neutral creatures are summonable

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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 07, 2011 04:36 PM
Edited by admira at 16:40, 07 Jun 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Why would/does the phoenix being a neutral creature make it unsummonable?

All summonable creatures are neutral =/= All neutral creatures are summonable


I forgot where I read it but it was said that all Elementals have no dwelling thus only applicable as neutral stack or summon, well they didn't mention about Phoenix being summon but the prediction is they are part of summoning in summon school of Heroes V with Phoenix as ultimate summon spell (in which also has the summon elemental spell). So yeah, I think it is pretty plausible for me to have a "guess" that Phoenix is return as summon creature.

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Crayfish
Crayfish


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2011 04:46 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Why would/does the phoenix being a neutral creature make it unsummonable?

All summonable creatures are neutral =/= All neutral creatures are summonable


No but neutral phoenix =/= unsummonable phoenix (unless Elvin knows for sure that this is the case?)

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 07, 2011 04:55 PM

So, spell of today is Frenzy, that now works instantly? Well played UbiSoft, so now there is no longer any counter. Let's remove anything resembling tactical elements of the game.
____________
What will happen now?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted June 07, 2011 05:00 PM

It's exactly the other way around.. First, no creeping abuses. Secondly it can be used both offensively and defensively. Third it also makes you take into account the frenzied unit's following action which further complicates things. Fourth how many frenzy counters did you know in H5? And how many did you actually use with high chances of success? Finally units do not die as easily as they did in H5.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted June 07, 2011 05:14 PM

In another news Ubisoft has registered the following domain:

www.mightandmagicraiders.com

Can we expect another M&M fps? or maybe RTS!

Regarding Frenzy - i find the spell to be ok on paper. Keep in mind that actual damage can always be toned up and down, as long as mechanic works fine. And mechanic in current implementation is rather simple - and as such easier to balance.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted June 07, 2011 05:22 PM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 18:29, 07 Jun 2011.

Quote:
In another news Ubisoft has registered the following domain:

www.mightandmagicraiders.com

Can we expect another M&M fps? or maybe RTS!

Regarding Frenzy - i find the spell to be ok on paper. Keep in mind that actual damage can always be toned up and down, as long as mechanic works fine. And mechanic in current implementation is rather simple - and as such easier to balance.

Old news champ. The site has been registred a month ago

Quote:

No but neutral phoenix =/= unsummonable phoenix (unless Elvin knows for sure that this is the case?)

Well it would seem so, if Elvin did not already repetedly state that there will be no Summonable Pheonix. This on the other hand can give us a chance that there will be a recruitable pheonix.

The truth is that since H2 it was not profitable to recruit neutrals at all.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted June 07, 2011 05:30 PM

Quote:
Old news champ. The site has been registred a month ago


Hah, must have missed those news last month then, my bad.

Anyway, hoping to see more fire spells that aren't damage ones in these previews.

Bloodlust and Curse used to be in fire school in H3, wonder if they pertain that status in H6.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted June 07, 2011 05:46 PM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 17:48, 07 Jun 2011.

Quote:
Fourth how many frenzy counters did you know in H5? And how many did you actually use with high chances of success? Finally units do not die as easily as they did in H5.


Frenzy in H5 was a superb spell, better than Puppet Master. It had very few counters of which were Immunity, Vampirism or Teleport (or lay hands in Haven).....so not often a chance to counter I would say if your hero wasn't going soon on ATB with either of these spells.

I suppose the important question about Frenzy in H6 would be: is there enemy retaliation when used?

@Elvin So you have indirectly stated that there is no Summon Phoenix?


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Crayfish
Crayfish


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2011 05:49 PM
Edited by Crayfish at 17:55, 07 Jun 2011.

Quote:
Quote:

No but neutral phoenix =/= unsummonable phoenix (unless Elvin knows for sure that this is the case?)


Well it would seem so, if Wlvin did not aready repetedly state that there will be no Summonable Pheonix. This on the other hand can give us a chance that there will be a recruitable pheonix.

The truth is that since H2 it was not profitable to recruit neutrals at all.


Oh okay, missed him saying that previously.

It would be nice if Phoenix and Dragon Eel were recruitable under certain circumstances. Having powerful neutrals could make them useful army staples again.

I like the new Frenzy a lot but it sounds very powerful. Perhaps spellpower will limit the target unit max HP, that would make it seem more reasonable.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 07, 2011 05:56 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 17:57, 07 Jun 2011.

Quote:
It would be nice if (...) Dragon Eel were recruitable under certain circumstances.

Bosses recruitable ? No thanks.

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Crayfish
Crayfish


Known Hero
posted June 07, 2011 05:59 PM
Edited by Crayfish at 18:01, 07 Jun 2011.

.. Oh yeah... thought it was a champion neutral for some reason

Duuuuh.

I'll go stare at my toes in slack jawed incomprehension for a while and let the smart people talk.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 07, 2011 06:05 PM

Quote:
.. Oh yeah... thought it was a champion neutral for some reason

Probably because Ubisoft has listed it as neutral on their website ^^

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted June 07, 2011 06:53 PM

Yes, the frenzy spell is powerful, but much less powerful than in H5, and it's a highest level spell this time.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 07, 2011 06:58 PM

Quote:
It's exactly the other way around.. First, no creeping abuses. Secondly it can be used both offensively and defensively. Third it also makes you take into account the frenzied unit's following action which further complicates things. Fourth how many frenzy counters did you know in H5? And how many did you actually use with high chances of success? Finally units do not die as easily as they did in H5.

True, perhaps, but still it added a level of planning that you had to take into account that potentially, enemy Hero could counter your Frenzy (teleport unit among your own units for instance). Now it seems like you can just mindlessly use it.
____________
What will happen now?

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted June 07, 2011 07:04 PM

Quote:
True, perhaps, but still it added a level of planning that you had to take into account that potentially, enemy Hero could counter your Frenzy (teleport unit among your own units for instance). Now it seems like you can just mindlessly use it.


It is not a control spell anymore. It is damage spell. The damage scales according to the stack though, which makes it unique. It is completely different spell, and in many cases very useful for your own creatures to make them berserk. Fitting as a fire spell.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 07, 2011 07:07 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Fourth how many frenzy counters did you know in H5? And how many did you actually use with high chances of success? Finally units do not die as easily as they did in H5.


Frenzy in H5 was a superb spell, better than Puppet Master. It had very few counters of which were Immunity, Vampirism or Teleport (or lay hands in Haven).....so not often a chance to counter I would say if your hero wasn't going soon on ATB with either of these spells.



you forget the most obvious counter. moving your units, so that the frenzied creature will attack a least crucial stack, or even an enemy.

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Karanshade
Karanshade


Adventuring Hero
posted June 07, 2011 08:23 PM

About the phoenix , my bet is 'summonnable' in the ultimate capacity of a druid-like class in an expansion containing elves. Pure speculation tough.
____________

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted June 07, 2011 08:52 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 20:53, 07 Jun 2011.

Quote:
It's exactly the other way around.. First, no creeping abuses. Secondly it can be used both offensively and defensively. Third it also makes you take into account the frenzied unit's following action which further complicates things. Fourth how many frenzy counters did you know in H5? And how many did you actually use with high chances of success? Finally units do not die as easily as they did in H5.
Heroes V is not the only Heroes you know. And besides, you have things like Cleansing, etc. from the spells department and the ability to move the creatures from the common sense department. We'll have to see how this will work out but for the time being I agree that the tactical potential of the spell is reduced. Previously such a spell could turn against you if you are not careful enough and now there is virtually no chance for this, except if you are a complete idiot.
Of course it could be worse - for example some creature casting Frenzy on the attacked enemy as part of its melee hit... Oh, actually...

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