Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
13 Oct 2015: Negative Reception of the Game, 2nd Patch Delayed - read more
29 Sep 2015: Heroes VII is Released, together with Bastion MOD for VCMI! - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 ... 398 399 400 401 402 ... 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted June 07, 2011 10:42 PM

What if there's a Frenzy, and there is a Berserk spell?
It is possible they'd do that.

One is the extra hit, the other is the loss of control and power increase.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 08, 2011 12:01 AM

Quote:
Of course it could be worse - for example some creature casting Frenzy on the attacked enemy as part of its melee hit... Oh, actually...


you mean, like the pit lord?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted June 08, 2011 01:47 AM

Quote:
Quote:
True, perhaps, but still it added a level of planning that you had to take into account that potentially, enemy Hero could counter your Frenzy (teleport unit among your own units for instance). Now it seems like you can just mindlessly use it.

It is not a control spell anymore. It is damage spell. The damage scales according to the stack though, which makes it unique. It is completely different spell, and in many cases very useful for your own creatures to make them berserk. Fitting as a fire spell.

I agree. And I also think the tactical potential is increased, since you can cast it on your own creatures.

Countering spells is also completely different, since the hero can act whenever they want (when it's one of their creatures' turn). So if it worked as the frenzy in H5 you would have three options:
1) Cast it before the enemy hero has acted - he counters immediately
2) Cast it after the enemy hero as acted - he can't counter it
3) Cast it when it's the target's turn next - he can't counter it

It would also mean a very little chance of ever using it on one of the fast creatures, since they always act first. All of this would just limit the possibilities.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 08, 2011 03:34 AM

Quote:
I agree. And I also think the tactical potential is increased, since you can cast it on your own creatures.


you could in H5 too.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted June 08, 2011 03:44 AM

I know, but I don't know of anyone who actually used it in that way, since it was (almost) always better to use it on the enemy because of the lost turn in addition to the added damage. Now that's not necessarily the case.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted June 08, 2011 06:31 AM

Quote:
Countering spells is also completely different, since the hero can act whenever they want (when it's one of their creatures' turn).
True at that, good point. Guess that only goes to emforce my dislike of the new (or should I say old) turn system, but of course they gotta stick with what they chose.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Warm and fuzzy
posted June 08, 2011 07:12 AM

You prefered the first caster to be screwed over by the second just because the atb decided so? What's to like about that? While now it can be tricky on who decides to act first, you have more chances to take advantage of your army's timing than be a slave to it. Controlling the initiative means you control the spellcasting flow.
____________
Good design isn't more expensive, bad design is.
-Vitirr

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted June 08, 2011 07:23 AM

Is initiative still the same as speed?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted June 08, 2011 08:45 AM

As I've understood they are not the same. Initiative determines who acts first and speed determines how far your creature can move.
But I seem to remember that haste effects both speed and initiative, although I hope that's not the case.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted June 08, 2011 08:51 AM

Sweet, thanks for the answer
That particular aspect of the gameplay always bothered me.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Karanshade
Karanshade


Adventuring Hero
posted June 08, 2011 09:31 AM

Quote:
You prefered the first caster to be screwed over by the second just because the atb decided so? What's to like about that? While now it can be tricky on who decides to act first, you have more chances to take advantage of your army's timing than be a slave to it. Controlling the initiative means you control the spellcasting flow.


sure , since now every army will have a max speed creature in its rank , the first to cast will be decided by a flip of a coin, which is certainly a major change in term of control with the ATB bar !
Well there is a change for the following cast tough , now they are decided by completely irrelevant paramaters non related to your hero.
Good System Old is always good ofc !
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Warm and fuzzy
posted June 08, 2011 09:48 AM

Quote:
sure , since now every army will have a max speed creature in its rank , the first to cast will be decided by a flip of a coin, which is certainly a major change in term of control with the ATB bar !
Well there is a change for the following cast tough , now they are decided by completely irrelevant paramaters non related to your hero.
Good System Old is always good ofc !

If you could describe anything as the flip of a coin it was H5 where initiative artifacts were retardedly powerful and 8 init marksmen could play before 10 init master hunters. Now initiative is very specific and you know exactly in what order your units will move.
____________
Good design isn't more expensive, bad design is.
-Vitirr

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted June 08, 2011 10:49 AM

I just realized the new frenzy spell works almost exactly like the special attack of the Champion unit in my Citadel faction. (theirs has a few less restrictions though)

Always like it when I end up designing something that gets put into a game anyway.
Though admittedly I have mixed feelings about how this plays out if it really replaces the spell as we know it from previous games and there isn't some kind of successor to it. (admittedly, it was ridiculously powerful)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
foxxxer
foxxxer


Famous Hero
posted June 08, 2011 11:18 AM

"Armageddon -> All non-infernal creatures, obstacles and walls on the Combat Map are dealt Fire Damage."
I hope that Armageddon won't be too powerful

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted June 08, 2011 11:21 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 11:22, 08 Jun 2011.

Quote:
"Armageddon -> All non-infernal creatures, obstacles and walls on the Combat Map are dealt Fire Damage."
I hope that Armageddon won't be too powerful

It's the Utimate skill for the Pyromancer. It will either be totally worthless or totally overpowered

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted June 08, 2011 11:25 AM

They presented it in the week of Fire Magic but it is also listed as a Pyromancer (Inferno magic blood advanced class) ultimate ability on the reputation website.
Does that imply that every ultimate ability is part of an appropriate skill tree for that class?
I thought they had a special class tab for that. (sreenshots seem to indicate Might, Magic and Class subdivisions for the skills/abilities.)

Anybody got an answer?

Also on the firebolt -> fireball -> ??? discussion, it seems there is indeed 5x5 fire damage spell another rank higher.
I think that does indeed indicate a chain or requirement.
____________
Mr.Dragon Factions in production.
Citadel: 7/7 creatures, 2/2 hero base classes. (complete, for now)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted June 08, 2011 11:37 AM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 11:38, 08 Jun 2011.

Quote:

If you could describe anything as the flip of a coin it was H5 where initiative artifacts were retardedly powerful and 8 init marksmen could play before 10 init master hunters. Now initiative is very specific and you know exactly in what order your units will move.



I would describe it more as a wind in the Sails. It gave the user a huge advantage, but still it was mechanical,
I Do think that Initiative was a god idea, but needed some adjustments.

As many others I Fail to see the prose in the new frenzy, It is now uncontrable, and has fewer tactical uses.
For example one of my favorite uses of berserker in Heroes 2-3 was to to disable the enemy Hero. Casting it on his last unite made shure I am safe from his spells.
Also I am one of those who used Berserker in Heroes V on his own troops. The increased damage was a good thing on Hydras.


About todays spells
Armagedon: So it is presented as a fire spell. Still it is an Inferno ability. interesting.
Fire storm: A more or less generic spell. still hoping for the fire shield and walking bomb
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted June 08, 2011 11:37 AM

@MrDragon: I think that the Inferno Unique Abilities (eg. Armageddon) wil appear in the Class ability section of the Ability tree and not the Fire Magic tree which only has Ranks 1 to 3 magic.

Yes I also thought Firebolt -> Fireball -> Fire Storm (you need the one to get the other)

Fire storm looks hot, seems similar to Meteor Shower which was an Earth Magic spell.....


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted June 08, 2011 11:38 AM

I love the new Frenzy, and agree with Elvin on its tactical relevance.

Hopefully there is a Dwarven Shield type artifact that once again can make your army Immune to the spell though

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
foxxxer
foxxxer


Famous Hero
posted June 08, 2011 11:39 AM

Quote:
It's the Utimate skill for the Pyromancer. It will either be totally worthless or totally overpowered

Yeah, I know but if the basic damage is too powerful and after that hero's magic attack rise it more... it will be super unbalanced.
Quote:
I thought they had a special class tab for that. (sreenshots seem to indicate Might, Magic and Class subdivisions for the skills/abilities.)

Haven racial abilities. I think that for Inferno Armageddon will be somwhere in this section.


Quote:
Also on the firebolt -> fireball -> ??? discussion, it seems there is indeed 5x5 fire damage spell another rank higher.
I think that does indeed indicate a chain or requirement.


As I said before I also suppose that the spells are conected.



 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 ... 398 399 400 401 402 ... 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0947 seconds