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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 (75) 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 22, 2010 12:56 PM

Quote:
Heroes is not the most complex combat, and it doesn't take that much effort to become really good at it!

I don't think you realize how hard it is to defeat a good player. It can take endless hours of practice, experimenting, thinking, watching replays to even come close to someone who knows how to play.

Combat became a lot more pronounced and tactical during H5.
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Demonge
Demonge


Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
posted December 22, 2010 01:06 PM

About heroes portraits: I like how they make siblings look alike.
That sounds logical, but I am glad of it.
And so the 4th child is not half-orc.
And so Orcs are not really "neutral" in the plot.
All that really sound good to me.
____________
Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!

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Omnipotence
Omnipotence


Hired Hero
posted December 22, 2010 01:28 PM

I'm sure it's been stated somehwhere, but is Sandor the oldest of the children? From the pics he looks like a grown man whilst the others still have a sort of "pretty boy/girl" look to them.

On a similar note, they do look amazing! All four have a similar appearance (as siblings should despite different maternal backgrounds) yet are very suited for their respective factions. Hopefully the in-game models will have similar detail.
____________
"Life... Liberty... And The Pursuit Of All Who Threaten It." - United States Navy

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Maken
Maken


Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
posted December 22, 2010 03:32 PM
Edited by maken at 15:34, 22 Dec 2010.



wut, heroes 6 live? xD

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evinin
evinin


Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
posted December 22, 2010 04:55 PM

Quote:
Otherwise its nice, but because that man just made 5 childeren we only get 5 faction... I hope he makes more children soon...



Anyway... The heroes look good and for now I like the story line. Can't wait to kick everybody else's butt with them. Mostly with Necro...

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 22, 2010 04:56 PM

@By Nightterror

Quote:
Otherwise its nice, but because that man just made 5 childeren we only get 5 faction... I hope he makes more children soon...


This ironically amuzing remark is actually very true. I mean, IMHO the gameplay (Creatures, Factions, Heroes, Magic, Resources) should be of PRIMARY Priority, with Story and Lore being SECONDARY...I'm sure some people would disagree, but while Lore is of course important etc. it IS a computer GAME after all.

So, (I'm being abstract and exaggerative here, but to convey my point) if Ubisoft decided not to include ANY expansions (therefore no Sylvan, Academy, the amazing H3 Fortress) would anyone say: "...OK, if it's explained storywise..."

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Omnipotence
Omnipotence


Hired Hero
posted December 22, 2010 05:02 PM

Quote:
Edit: The oldest is Anton

Not sure if I like it in terms of the portraits, but it makes sense that the oldest son would be the rightful heir to the Haven throne.

P.S. Is it wrong to hope that the delayed confirmation of stronghold elite could involve the addition of the Roc/Thunderbird given so vast of a negative response?
...one can only dream...
____________
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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted December 22, 2010 05:24 PM

Shadow of death was a brilliant addition. Had some of my favourite campaigns in the series, both well-written and challenging.
____________
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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted December 22, 2010 05:47 PM

Quote:
Shadow of death was a brilliant addition. Had some of my favourite campaigns in the series, both well-written and challenging.


Absolutely agree!!! It was incredible!! Crag Hag , Yog , Gelu, Gem and ESPECIALLY Sandro!!! We all love him!!!
I call insulting of Shadow of Death expansion an attempt of a Genocide to HoMM series!!!

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 22, 2010 06:03 PM
Edited by MattII at 18:04, 22 Dec 2010.

Quote:
Shadow of death was a brilliant addition. Had some of my favourite campaigns in the series, both well-written and challenging.
Totally agree, I mean we didn't get new creatures or towns, but at 11/15/19 (depending on how you want to take it) and 9 we didn't need any, and we did get those cool combo artefacts, more and better terrain overlays, and the new gateways, plus an absolutely epic 6 campaign story, and the 7th campaign makes a good prelude to the original game.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted December 22, 2010 06:18 PM

Quote:
This ironically amuzing remark is actually very true. I mean, IMHO the gameplay (Creatures, Factions, Heroes, Magic, Resources) should be of PRIMARY Priority, with Story and Lore being SECONDARY...I'm sure some people would disagree, but while Lore is of course important etc. it IS a computer GAME after all.


Games where the story and the lore is only a secondary concern nearly by default are bad games.

What are games, if not a new medium to tell a story? Games are the next thing in art media. After sculpture, painting, books and movies, we, as a civilisation have moved to games as a new and exiting way to express art. Games have moved beyond mere toys. Yes, games are still in their infancy as being an art, but a beginning has to be made.
I strongly reccomend everyone to visit this link: Extra Credits
To watch the clips and learn. Games can be so much more, if people opened their eyes.

And comments like this, are exactly what we need if we, as lovers of games, never want the recognition we deserve.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 22, 2010 06:46 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 18:46, 22 Dec 2010.

I think he was trying to say that the lore can not be an excuse for lack of additions to the actual game, especially when it's already poorer than the previous ones in terms of faction variety and creatures. I certainly won't buy an expansion which does not re-introduce at least one of the old factions (not that I've made up my mind about the initial release too, but if it has some intrusive DRM, I'll certainly skip it, no matter how great it is).

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted December 22, 2010 06:54 PM

Quote:
Games where the story and the lore is only a secondary concern nearly by default are bad games.
Not necessarily, I have a few (Space Empires IV for example) where story and lore aren't even existent, yet the series isn't bad for a TBS, or at least that's my opinion. Bad gameplay will kill a game while a bad story will hurt the game only slightly because most people don't play the campaigns overmuch.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted December 22, 2010 07:46 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 19:46, 22 Dec 2010.

Gameplay, factions and creatures must always come before story and lore in a heroes game imo. Believe me when I say I love story in games, it's just that in heroes things are different. Never been too excited about the Heroes campaign because of it's limitations.
But the most perfect games all times are the ones that makes everything perfect, gameplay, graphics, story, feel and so on.

But I hardly think story and lore are the ONLY reason why there isn't more then 5 factions.

Quote:
On the issue of randomness.

I know for a fact that BH are not planning to eliminate randomness as they know the series has a tradition on that However they do plan to decrease it when it comes to some things as xhane confirmed in the CoG interview. As you can guess inferno will be more chaotic than other factions something that will also reflect in their damage range - still from what I gather the gap won't be as extreme as it was before.

Awesome to know Even if I expected it with the current signs.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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blighboy
blighboy


Hired Hero
posted December 22, 2010 08:20 PM

If there is a lore reason as to why so and so can't be a faction it is because the game developers wrote the story that way. It shouldn't be used as an excuse as it was a conscious decision so as to explain the absence of the faction or creature or whatever it is. I assure you they did not write the story and say "Oh darn, I suppose we can no longer include this faction." The story may not have required the faction, but there would be nothing to stop them from adding it, even if it played little role in the campaign.

Not that I mind them cutting factions. If they feel that they don't have the money or the time to add a faction, then that's the way things are. But I assure you, the reason for the absence of a faction will never be "story" or "lore".
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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 22, 2010 08:24 PM

Quote:
I never cared much for the stories of HOMM games, the creatures don't have a big part in the stories and most of the heroes aren't interesting in my eyes, if the creatures played more part in the storyline I would read the story, but this is just about some heroes, the creatures don't matter, nobody cares about how they join the army and why... thats why it sucks.

I love to collect armies and play though the battles of the campaign, but the story doesn't concern to me at all, I found homm3 and 5 story a bit interesting and I loved the screens in homm3 where you see many creatures between each level.

SO I rather see more factions and a worse story, than the other way around.


Nightterror, I agree with you entirely and je suis happy que quelque'un a le same opinion as me

Do you not agree, that a H3 game without a story (but a great number of factions and creatures, magic etc.) would still be more appealing and enjoyable than a H6 with, no matter how great a story, but a disgraceful amount of 5 factions? Of course the one with more CONTENT would be more appealing.

@War-overlord
Quote:
Games where the story and the lore is only a secondary concern nearly by default are bad games.


I absolutely disagree with you and even if you state something like this, could you please give examples? Sure story is important, but nowhere near as important as creatures and factions. A book can provide you with a story, that's it's purpose; a game's purpose is to ENTERTAIN and Let YOU manipulate events and gameplay (this is what makes games different from books) YOU can decide how everything will function and you have control, in a book you follow an unchangeable scenario devised by an author. SO, I ask you, how enjpyable is a game, where there is hardly any creatures/characters one can control?

Besides, what stops a game from having CONTENT (Creatures etc.) AND a story? But, if I had to choose, creatures are an obvious choice for me, they are a lot more essential than countless textboxes (in previous HOMMs) or boring and repetitive cutscenes (as in H5).

A game is there to provide VISUALS, something a book cannot do...now to deprive or retard a game in it's strongest aspect is not a good idea.


Additionally, look at one of the biggest commercial successes ever - "Avatar", it gained worldwide acclaim for its VISUALS and BEAUTIFUL SURROUNDINGS, CREATURES, NOT a story (which IMHO was actually very shallow, cliche, and unpolished). What would Avatar be without its visuals, or as a book? Nothing.

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted December 22, 2010 08:39 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 20:51, 22 Dec 2010.

I think all Heroes games pretty much sucked story-wise. Sorry, I don't say that to offend people, it's just my oppinion. I think Heroes games worked as brilliant games, particularly Heroes 2 and 3, and in many cases I didn't even play the campaigns.

I did play the Heroes 3 campaigns, and particularly enjoyed the AB campaigns which for me were the best in the series - the storylines were actually pretty good, and the maps were challenging.

But I agree with team Nightterror here, storyline and characters are secondary in the Heroes games, even the specific choices of units can be exchanged without big problems (apart from the nostalgia), for me it's all about the gameplay.


Quote:
Why almost all men in those pictures have BIG LIPS? That is for females. Big Lips makes men look femine, they should give the men in this game some proper lips and more manly looks! Especially the ones from Haven and Inferno.

Yes, 100 %, the men look horrible. The look like the scarecrow from Batman:

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Properkheldar Online
Properkheldar


Known Hero
Keeper of books
posted December 22, 2010 08:50 PM

Oh the endless whining...

They have already stated that they want more tactical gameplay and balanced factions that have very different playstyles (they made a reference to starcraft and their factions). It´s not easy to balance these things, and the more factions the harder it gets.

I for one think 5 is enough to start with, we all know there will be more factions in the expansions. Why have 8-10 factions where 30% of the creatures are copies of each other? Sharing abilities and stats but looking different.


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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted December 22, 2010 08:56 PM

Quote:

Yes, 100 %, the men look horrible. The look like the scarecrow from Batman:


haha Anton looks quite a lot like Cillian Murphy actually XD


@Nightterror what are you talking about, they don't have such big lips...
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 22, 2010 09:01 PM

Quote:
They have already stated that they want more tactical gameplay and balanced factions that have very different playstyles (they made a reference to starcraft and their factions). It´s not easy to balance these things, and the more factions the harder it gets.

I for one think 5 is enough to start with, we all know there will be more factions in the expansions. Why have 8-10 factions where 30% of the creatures are copies of each other? Sharing abilities and stats but looking different.
You seem to know more than us. What are the abilities of the Haven creatures for example?

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