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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 74 75 76 77 78 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted December 22, 2010 10:09 PM

Quote:
A game is there to provide VISUALS, something a book cannot do...now to deprive or retard a game in it's strongest aspect is not a good idea.


Completely agree, a game has so many layers besides the story. I wouldn't care for Heroes if it had a much better storyline but was a lot worse in terms of gameplay, visuals, music etc. I also agree with alcibiades, story in general sucked in Heroes. For example in H4 the campaigns are laughable with basically each faction going against themselves, yet I did actually enjoy the campaigns because they set some kinda mood I liked. In H5-6 I appreciate the effort they put into the lore but in H5 they ruined everything with trying to link all 6 factions into the same storyline. So now separate campaigns and one conclusion (like Winds of War) in H6 is more promising, but even if Ubi explicitly said the story will be the exact same as H5, I'd still anticipate H6 just as much, because of the other aspects of the game (i.e. revamped styles Inferno and Necropolis, a brand new faction, changes in gameplay etc etc).

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whiterider
whiterider


Known Hero
death walks with me
posted December 22, 2010 10:13 PM

I was always wondering why they dont hire someone that has done campaigns for other RPG games like authors from D&D or Wizards of the Coasts but they hire fantasy writers, these that understand how to implement the story to the game mechanics will be more succesfull than others that only give a fantasy story.

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted December 22, 2010 10:18 PM

Quote:
I was always wondering why they dont hire someone that has done campaigns for other RPG games like authors from D&D or Wizards of the Coasts but they hire fantasy writers, these that understand how to implement the story to the game mechanics will be more succesfull than others that only give a fantasy story.


Well, Black Hole has been working with the warhammer lore for quite some time now. And that is very elaborate and advanced. I think that´s a good sign at least

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bludgeon
bludgeon


Known Hero
posted December 22, 2010 10:19 PM

I have quite big lips and I'm told it's rather sexy, so I don't see any problems with that
Plus those drawings of heroes are gorgeous. That necro girl looks very sexy, but in a delicate, non hollywood plastic-fantastic way.

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maken
maken


Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
posted December 22, 2010 10:23 PM

I wonder if they all can be related to real life actors. I'm telling you, they must be aiming for some sort of live action movie if the game sells a lot

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Aatos
Aatos


Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
posted December 22, 2010 11:15 PM
Edited by Aatos at 11:46, 23 Dec 2010.

I think that the single player campaign, the single player custom game and the multiplayer are all different and separate parts of the game. Some people like one more than the other and in order for a game to be good, all of these parts need to be well made and they all require different things in order to be good.

Single player campaign requires a good story and lore. The characters and events need to be well designed, planned, logical, interesting...

Single player custom game requires the same things as the multiplayer and a well made computer player which will not get bonuses but instead play better.

Multiplayer requires balance. Equal power of factions, heroes, creatures, skills, abilities, spells, artifacts... Balance between the number and diversity of factions, heroes, creatures, skills, abilities, spells, artifacts... Equal player map position conditions.

And the entire game needs good mechanics, good music, fun gameplay, many options, optimised requirements, good graphics, good atmosphere...
____________
To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 22, 2010 11:24 PM
Edited by SkrentyzMienty at 23:29, 22 Dec 2010.

Quote:
Oh the endless whining...

They have already stated that they want more tactical gameplay and balanced factions that have very different playstyles (they made a reference to starcraft and their factions). It´s not easy to balance these things, and the more factions the harder it gets.

I for one think 5 is enough to start with, we all know there will be more factions in the expansions. Why have 8-10 factions where 30% of the creatures are copies of each other? Sharing abilities and stats but looking different.




First, 5 factions isn't enough, it is one LESS than H2 released 14 YEARS AGO. Plus, even if more come in expansions, for them we'll still have to wait a year or more, so it sucks.

Secondly, I can easily give you 10 faction lineups, with every creature being unique and not a copy of any other one, so I don't see your point. H3 had NINE factions, all of them very UNIQUE and GREAT, while there could even have been more, as the list of yet unused mythological creatures is still long.


Edit:

@Aatos, what you said is correct, but I would only like to add and mention, that more factions doesn't mean they'll be less diverse or less balanced, such arguments are pathetic, with H3 being a sufficient counterargument in itself.

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted December 22, 2010 11:38 PM

No they are not pathetic, they are true. The more factions the harder to balance, at least if you want really diverse and unique creatures. More factions means more generic creatures with less abilities and more of the same. Heroes 3 does have many factions but they don´t actually play that different (in comparison with for example starcraft). And to honest, the conflux town is a good example of what happens when there is an inflation of factions.

And lorewise it´s a good decision. First focusing on the eclipse and the demon invasion, then making an expansion with the creation of the dark elves and perhaps a third one dealing with the wizards starting an open war with the necromancers resulting in the destruction of the first kingdom of magic.  

Less is more imo, and quality over quantity is an universal truth.

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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted December 22, 2010 11:40 PM
Edited by KingImp at 23:45, 22 Dec 2010.

Quote:
Well an expansion without adding new creatures to the game for HOMM6 is a crime for me.

homm3 may had enough creatures, but homm6 doesn't, so a SOD expansion for homm6 is worse than a cataclysm.


I couldn't agree more!

Personally, to me 8 factions is the minimum needed to keep the game fresh, so unless they come up with 3 more in however many expansions they make, this will get boring fast.

Oh, and they need to follow Heroes 3 in regards to Neutral units as opposed to Heroes 5. Sure, H3 started off with only a few, but they expanded to 19 total Neutrals while H5 stuck at a mere 9.


Quote:
I never cared much for the stories of HOMM games, the creatures don't have a big part in the stories and most of the heroes aren't interesting in my eyes, if the creatures played more part in the storyline I would read the story, but this is just about some heroes, the creatures don't matter, nobody cares about how they join the army and why... thats why it sucks.

I love to collect armies and play though the battles of the campaign, but the story doesn't concern to me at all, I found homm3 and 5 story a bit interesting and I loved the screens in homm3 where you see many creatures between each level.

SO I rather see more factions and a worse story, than the other way around.


Couldn't agree more again!  

I remember when I made a map for Heroes 5, in the description that shows when it was loading I wrote "Blah, Blah, Blah! Like any of this really matters. It's just a bunch of wasted words that have absolutely no bearing on the actual game. Go up, down, left, and right and kick everyone's asses."

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 22, 2010 11:47 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 23:48, 22 Dec 2010.

Quote:
And to honest, the conflux town is a good example of what happens when there is an inflation of factions.
This is being repeated for many years now, but let's repeat it one more time - Conflux was not supposed to be a faction in the first place. It's a deadwood, pure and simple.
Quote:
And lorewise it´s a good decision. First focusing on the eclipse and the demon invasion, then making an expansion with the creation of the dark elves and perhaps a third one dealing with the wizards starting an open war with the necromancers resulting in the destruction of the first kingdom of magic.
Lore-wise the number of factions is totally irrelevant, you can tell the story of one faction in 800 pages of text or you can tell the story of 8 factions in 100 pages for each one. You are trying too hard to fabricate an excuse which is not really needed, because we'll have 5 factions and that's it. Still everybody has the right to vocally dislike this decision.

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted December 22, 2010 11:56 PM
Edited by Properkheldar at 00:00, 23 Dec 2010.

Quote:
This is being repeated for many years now, but let's repeat it one more time - Conflux was not supposed to be a faction in the first place. It's a deadwood, pure and simple.


Yes i know, but the forge built upon already existing creatures but with laserweapons, tankbodies and chainsaws proves my point quite well to.

Quote:
Lore-wise the number of factions is totally irrelevant, you can tell the story of one faction in 800 pages of text or you can tell the story of 8 factions in 100 pages for each one. You are trying too hard to fabricate an excuse which is not really needed, because we'll have 5 factions and that's it. Still everybody has the right to vocally dislike this decision.


Well, its about money to ofc. Better that they save some interesting factions for the expansions then adding dwarves and orcs (which, based upon this forum, doesn´t seem to be all that liked). Everyone benefits from them making alot of money on this series. I´m not saying ppl can´t think what they want, i´m saying what i think

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted December 23, 2010 12:05 AM
Edited by Cepheus at 00:07, 23 Dec 2010.

To those actually wondering whether or not lore makes or breaks the product, we already know the answer - it is most certainly untrue that a strong story will carry the entire game. Atmosphere and story is an augmentation to a title with powerful gameplay and would sometimes make or break the difference between 75 or 90% in a review, but in a TBS lore does not an incredible piece of work make.

Do you know how I can say this so assuredly? Look at Heroes IV! The base game had amazing campaign storylines, drafted by a commissioned writer, with entire novels worth of text. This was totally dwarfed by the fact that nobody played them! The H4 storyline was practically ignored because many people didn't enjoy the single scenarios, let alone any lore within. The destruction of the old gameworld probably turned others off, and this was a real shame - one of the major aims of H4 was to develop strong recurring characters a lot of people would like. They succeeded with the "people would like" part, but not with the "lot" It may be presumptuous of me, but I'll wager Nightterror and Alcibiades, who think Heroes has always had a sucky or superficial storyline, never touched the H4 Death campaign and its 14000 words of philosophy

That said, from what I've been told, storyline is not a secondary concern in H6. I do not expect the H5 travesty to repeat itself.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 23, 2010 12:06 AM

Quote:
Well, its about money to ofc.
Now this I can agree with. I won't be surprised if the expansions are already in development actually. Hammers of Fate was released just a few months after the original version of Heroes V and nobody in this world can persuade me that this move was something more than a money-sucking gambit.

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Ylthina
Ylthina


Adventuring Hero
Woman of a thousand faces
posted December 23, 2010 12:13 AM
Edited by Ylthina at 00:15, 23 Dec 2010.

I agree that 5 factions is indeed too little (esp since there are no elves), but the game is due to be released in March, which is not much time to polish the story, graphics etc., even now we know only 4 factions and if the developers had to make yet another one, I'm afraid the game itself would suffer. Less is more, no? With less factions they have more time to polish other important things and make the game the best it can possibly be.

So I think, we'll make do with 5 factions in the begining (which better be awesome ) and then wait for an awesome expansion

(Sorry if this made no sence, I have problems with expressing myself sometimes )

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted December 23, 2010 12:14 AM
Edited by Jabanoss at 00:16, 23 Dec 2010.

@Cepheus
Interesting points, But a question If I may.
I have never liked the campaigns in Heroes, whether the story or not is good haven't really matter since I have never liked the way the campaigns are played. So I wonder in what way will the campaigns in Heroes 6 be made more interesting?
I'm talking about things like artifacts that carries across maps, more customizable heroes. The sort of thing that at least I love in heroes but that are impossible during a campaign, because they lack things which exists in the multiplayer.

Kinda tired, hope you get what I'm talking about
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted December 23, 2010 12:25 AM

@Jabanoss - I can only answer that in the most general of terms because I don't know many specifics myself. What I do know is that campaigns will have way more text than even Heroes IV did. The depth of story shouldn't bog down the gameplay, though. I expect some missions to be highly innovative, and there should be a lot of customisation indeed.

Nothing specific that I can or will offer without being thrown to the wolves, but do you remember how Erwan le Breton summed up the game in one of those Gamescom video interviews? "Master your destiny", he said.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted December 23, 2010 12:36 AM
Edited by Jabanoss at 00:46, 23 Dec 2010.

Quote:
"Master your destiny"

Thanks now I have even greater expectations for this game



@Properkheldar - I agree partly with you, I agree that for a game to be interesting and to really contain different and unique factions they need to keep the number low.(yes just like in Starcraft).

But this is Heroes, A game that is a lot about it's creatures and many factions, therefore there should be a lot of creatures and factions. And remember Properkheldar that, sure less is more but we can also achieve "uniqueness" with a big array of factions.
For example if you have 5 factions there are a lot of difference between them. If you have 10 factions, the difference is less but overall between ALL the factions there is a greater difference and uniqueness.

But hopefully we'll get a couple of extra faction through expansions.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted December 23, 2010 12:47 AM

Personally speaking, I think that HIII and HV both did a pretty good job of making each town really favor a distinctive playstyle and distinguish itself from other towns, despite the great number of factions present.

The loss of different resources has me a little worried as to its impact on faction variety, but we'll see how it works out in practice.
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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Properkheldar
Properkheldar


Famous Hero
Keeper of books
posted December 23, 2010 12:47 AM
Edited by Properkheldar at 00:48, 23 Dec 2010.

Quote:
"Master your destiny"


Sounds like the now ever so popular "You will get to make choices that affect the story" like "dragon age" and "mass effect". That´s all fun and games (if done right). The description about the campaign heroes also hint about this:

4th CHILD: SANDOR – STRONGHOLD
-The snow child of Duke Slava Griffin, a political burden since birth, soon became a troublemaker
-Found a friend and a mentor in the person of his father’s master-of-arms… the Orc, Kraal
-Exiled from the Holy Empire for standing up for his family during a feud with his father’s neighbor, the Duke of the Wolf
-Led by Kraal to the savage Pao islands, the Orc territory in the Jade Sea
-Comes back home with an Orc army to become a conqueror… or a savior.

3rd CHILD: KIRIL – INFERNO
-Betrayed by someone he trusted above all people.
-Sacrificed to the powers of Sheogh.
-His soul is ripped apart in a terrible ritual to share his body, and his memories, with a powerful Demon.
-The Demon guest and his host fight for control, with the human’s soul as their battlefield.
-Torn between two loyalties, whom will he pledge allegiance to?

1st CHILD: ANTON – HAVEN
-Elder son of the Griffin Duke. Heir to his father’s crown.
-Since his childhood, Angels whisper in his ear.
-They speak of glory and purity but also of corruption and betrayal.
-Frustrated and confused, he must expose the lies and pick his side.

And so forth, quite obvious actually. And those choices will affect the "reputation" aspect they are talking about that ultimately decides what advanced classes you can choose for the hero.

Thats my bet.



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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted December 23, 2010 12:57 AM

Very interesting! I just hope they make the "canon" storyline apparent.
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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