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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 75 76 77 78 79 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted December 23, 2010 01:11 AM

It's better if it's a personal story if you ask me.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted December 23, 2010 01:11 AM

That's not a bad bet, keeping in mind that I try not to give out any information that hasn't already been released.
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted December 23, 2010 01:32 AM
Edited by SwampLord at 01:33, 23 Dec 2010.

Quote:
It's better if it's a personal story if you ask me.


Oh, lots of choice is definitely great; I play Fallout so I certainly appreciate being able to make your own story. Just hoping that BH says, out of game, what the "canon" ending is as I'm a bit of a lore geek and would like to know what direction Ashan "officially" takes after the game.

On a side note, I do hope that if there is choice within the storyline, the choices you make within one campaign impact the way the next one plays out; would be really interesting!
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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blighboy
blighboy


Hired Hero
posted December 23, 2010 02:25 AM

Quote:
Oh, lots of choice is definitely great; I play Fallout so I certainly appreciate being able to make your own story. Just hoping that BH says, out of game, what the "canon" ending is as I'm a bit of a lore geek and would like to know what direction Ashan "officially" takes after the game.

On a side note, I do hope that if there is choice within the storyline, the choices you make within one campaign impact the way the next one plays out; would be really interesting!


Well as this is a prequel to H5, after this game, that takes place, so the canon ending will obviously be the one which could lead into that game. If it ends in some kind of human genocide for instance, then it obviously wouldn't be the canon ending.

On the subject of multiple story paths though, how would that even be implemented? Would you be given two objectives and have to choose one? Or would it be a "side with demons" "side with haven" type choice in a cutscene? I can't really think of any way that would actually flow with the gameplay, if you know what I mean. I get the impression it would seem almost like a last minute thing. And if that's the case, I would rather they just told a regular, high quality story. Not everything needs to be a sandbox or have a morality system.
____________

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted December 23, 2010 02:28 AM

Quote:

3rd CHILD: KIRIL – INFERNO
-Torn between two loyalties, whom will he pledge allegiance to?

Hmmm....

VS. .

Why do I doubt he's going to pick Haven...?
____________
"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord

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maken
maken


Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
posted December 23, 2010 02:35 AM

Quote:
On a side note, I do hope that if there is choice within the storyline, the choices you make within one campaign impact the way the next one plays out; would be really interesting!


I don't know about that much, but I guess it will not work that way (I mean, cross-campaign influence), because there was something about the campaigns being non-dependent from each other and at the end, after playing them all, you got some sort of panorama of what is really the big picture.

Unless, for example, there is some strange path choices between missions, so, for example, you could decide to go through the mountain side or through some bridge because at an earlier time (in the whole campaign) you played other faction mission that built that bridge (as a choice). Not the best example but I guess the idea is there. But I think its too messed, so if they do something with this cross-campaign flavor, I hope they have a better way.

But anyway, the least they can do to make campaigns interesting is to give us the power of choice, as stated in the uncertainty of the main heroes path, that somebody pointed out already.

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whiterider
whiterider


Known Hero
death walks with me
posted December 23, 2010 10:13 AM

Quote:
Lol agains. Female priests and Female succubi, the second come from the myth that they enter into priests dreams and seduce them (and this is sin). So now females are seducing females? Lame.

In the Medieval Grimoares the Succubus is actually an Incubus, male sex spirit that can change his body. Succubus and Incubus are one and the same being. Later some authors began to differentiate this and two separate beings were born

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted December 23, 2010 10:30 AM

Quote:
It may be presumptuous of me, but I'll wager Nightterror and Alcibiades, who think Heroes has always had a sucky or superficial storyline, never touched the H4 Death campaign and its 14000 words of philosophy

No, you're quite right, I never got past the first map on any of the Heroes 4 campaigns because I hated the H4 combat mechanism when you started without a castle. I only played the H3 (all of them) and H5 (vanilla) campaigns, and also I guess the H2 ones, although I can't recall the full details of those.

That being said, there were some AMAZING H3 single level maps with full epic storylines that I absolutely *LOVED*. I remember two very specifically, although I don't recall the names of the map - one was centered around ancient Greek mythology, and depending on which faction you played, you were one of the Gods. It was absolutely brilliantly crafted. The other was called the Lord Of War or something, and you played as a Barbarian, and in the end you faced a Castle opponent in the underground with 1K+ Archangels. Needless to say you had pretty epic armies in that map.
____________
What will happen now?

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2010 10:52 AM

Creature names confirmed on Facebook: Centaur - Centaur Marauder; Dreamwalker - Dreamreaver; Jaguar Warrior - Panther Warrior.

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Meundmein
Meundmein


Adventuring Hero
Tricky, tricky Death...
posted December 23, 2010 11:28 AM

I like the "Shaman" names, they're cool
but they could post the artworks

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2010 11:45 AM

Has anyone's genius mind not been hit by a simple solution of having QUANTITY AND QUALITY in terms of creatures and factions


And I saw an argument of H3 having a lot of factions, but that resulted in them not playing too differently...well it's a misinterpretation, because the fact they didn't play "too differently" was H3's issue in the first place (what I mean is, that if there were even only FOUR factions, they wouldn't play any more differently, BESIDES, H3, as great as it was, WAS somehow limited by it's time of release, 1999, while a new HOMM surely wouldn't have a problem to have many factions AND have them play uniquely)

The lame argument of "less is more" is seriously irritating, not to mention the people who give it don't support it with ANY evidence.

Look at H5, it had a good number of factions, and they all played REALLY differently (racials etc.), and NONE of the creatures were "copies of themselves"  

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted December 23, 2010 05:04 PM

I've read that we can customize heroes, so does anyone know if the hero will be unique on teh adventure map and during combat ? when i say unique i mean if my hero is a blonde girl with no halmet will she appear as such on the map and during the combat or will all the heroes just have the same looks on the map and wihtin combat ???

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Aatos
Aatos


Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
posted December 23, 2010 05:08 PM
Edited by Aatos at 17:12, 23 Dec 2010.

Here is what I think. I wrote some of it before.

-Ubisoft has a lot of money
-Making a game with expansions is a good way to earn money
-The optimum number of factions is eight
-Campaigns with choices are good
-Campaigns without choices are good
-Campaign text and cutscenes are both good
-Story and lore are important parts of a game
-Number of factions is not connected to the campaign
-Mechanics is an important part of a game
-Music and game sounds are an important part of a game
-Artwork is not important for a game, exept for those who make the models, and it is nice to see it
-Game models are important for a game
-Names are not important for a game, but it is nice if they correspond to the concept
-Computer player is an important part of a game
-Balance is an important part of a game
-Graphics is an important part of a game
-Requirements are an important part of a game
-Animations and effects are an important part of a game
-Humans, Elves, Dwarves and Orcs are all equally good creatures for fantasy worlds
-Numerous options and customisation are an important part of a game
-...

I think that I am stating the obvious for most people, but not all of them. What I am saying is that there is no reason to argue which one of these elements is more important then the other because that is only personal preference and game developers have to make all of these elements good in order to make a good game.
____________
To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.

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maken
maken


Known Hero
Hail Hydra!
posted December 23, 2010 06:32 PM

The goblin most certainly will, as stated in its description it must have a trap, plus the boomerang might carry some special ability. Just the fixed amount of abilities you expect I find rather unlikely. I guess we will have to wait and see about the amount and uniqueness of creatures abilities.

Oh, and these 'flaws' can be interesting, indeed. But should be done with extreme care, as to not make some creatures just obviously useless.

And the miserable was just figure of speech, of course.

Just as a curiosity, you said the game could be 2D, that it must have a good amount of creatures and each should have 4 special abilities. Just like pokémon. (and I'd say about the few humanoids part too, but I don't know, I guess they are putting more and more humanoid pokémons each generation, but I stopped quite some time ago, so don't know for sure)

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DarkLord
DarkLord


Supreme Hero
Fear me..
posted December 23, 2010 08:10 PM

QUANTITY VS QUALITY

Quantity -

more creatures / more abilities / more skills / more factions / more maps etc!!!
you want more more more...and MORE!!!!
will they be ready unitll March 11th??? answer is NO!
Let's be realistic.. you can't have EVERYTHING!!!
OR give Ubihole another 2 years, and wait... wait... wait...
and...
..
..
..wait again...
so i find argument Pointless!!! you HAVE to choose what is really important!!!

and here comest the

Quality!!! -

few BUT awesome creatures / 5 but perfectly unique balanced factions / Storyline which is Interesting to read/play/live ...  
Can it be implimented till March!!! Yes it CAN!!! that's my point..
Whatever have been promised by Dev's should be Good quality! that's what i expect..!
I think they are doing pretty good job so far.. and a big Thank You to Ubihole... whatever they revealed so far looks good and done with professionalism..

so guys, stress on QUALITY!!! not quantity...



p.s. sorry if i m not clear enough, had 7 beers, give me some credit..

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted December 23, 2010 08:12 PM

Quote:
hmm are you kidding me?? Panther is a black jaguar, due to condition known as melanism.


Hmm didn't know that, must be because a Panther can both be a cougar or leopard aswell.
Yeah yeah but Jaguar still sounds cooler.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Agent_00_BLeRD
Agent_00_BLeRD


Adventuring Hero
posted December 23, 2010 08:16 PM

Filler units in H3:

(By filler units, I mean units that appear to have been put there just to fill a slot. They either don't belong to that town at all, or do belong but could have been easily replaced by some other unit. In some cases, they don't play all that important a role in deciding the strategy of that town so I may occasionally include "useless" units in there too.)

Castle: Pikemen
Rampart: green/gold dragons
Conflux: Hehehe. Air, Water, Fire, Earth and Psychic Elementals.
Dungeon: Manticores
Fortress: Gnolls, Wyverns
Inferno: Demons, Pit Fiends
Necropolis: Zombies

These units could have used more work, IMO.

As for diverging story lines, I'm usually against it. In my opinion, I would rather have one awesome story that is X hours long instead of 5 stories that are X/5 hours long. Whenever you create a branch, you add complexity with integrating all possible choices with all possible results and not all of us want to replay an entire campaign just to experience two different maps.

Quote:
Do you know how I can say this so assuredly? Look at Heroes IV! The base game had amazing campaign storylines, drafted by a commissioned writer, with entire novels worth of text.


This was probably one of the most impressive things in H4. I would SO LOVE IT if they brought back such amazing stories in H6. *crosses fingers*

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted December 23, 2010 08:26 PM

I disagree strongly with the Pikeman; it was a staple of the Knight town since HI, and seeing it gone in HV was quite disappointing.
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2010 08:29 PM
Edited by SkrentyzMienty at 20:39, 23 Dec 2010.

*metaphorical facepalm*  OK, I think the message was too complicated for you, added to the 7 beers you claim to have had, so I'll put it more simply:

If H5 had Quality AND Quantity, and the factions were balanced/unique...WTH STOPS H6 FROM DOING THE SAME???

And you're saying it would delay the release, maybe, but only by a few months if at all. I'd rather wait for a better game with actual CONTENT in it. (adding at least 2 more factions wouldn't delay the release by as much as a year, that's ridiculous)

So, maybe they should release H7 2 or 3 months after H6, with ONE faction, just to put it to the market as soon as possible, regardless of how unpolished it is. I bet you'd be happy then...


Quote:
Filler units in H3:

(By filler units, I mean units that appear to have been put there just to fill a slot. They either don't belong to that town at all, or do belong but could have been easily replaced by some other unit. In some cases, they don't play all that important a role in deciding the strategy of that town so I may occasionally include "useless" units in there too.)

Castle: Pikemen
Rampart: green/gold dragons
Conflux: Hehehe. Air, Water, Fire, Earth and Psychic Elementals.
Dungeon: Manticores
Fortress: Gnolls, Wyverns
Inferno: Demons, Pit Fiends
Necropolis: Zombies

These units could have used more work, IMO.



THOSE were your "fillers" ? WOW, just wow...

H6 has half the number of factions, half the number of creatures, YET MANY MORE "FILLERS"

Look at the stupid Maniac, Excrutiator, friggin 4 identical Orcs (easily replaced by Wyverns or Rocs), Glories...should I continue? These truly uninspired and improvised on the spot creatures are FAR more deserving to be called "fillers" than the H3 ones you gave, most of which are very good creatures anyways.

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted December 23, 2010 08:48 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 20:50, 23 Dec 2010.

“Excuse me but are you serious? I am giving argumentation: "Look at H5, it had a good number of factions, and they all played REALLY differently (racials etc.), and NONE of the creatures were "copies of themselves"  „obviously you didn't read my post thoroughly.”

Well Heroes 5 had 6 Faction, if we’re talking about Heroes 5 + 2 add-ons it`s eight, so the difference in 6 or 5 ,I can`t say it was cut down so bad, taking in consideration that we will have expansion we will get  more factions.


“I do not think you realize how much work and budget is required to have just 5 factions with 2 complex skill paths per faction, overall reworking of game mechanics, some serious work at campaigns/dialogues etc during a period of economic crisis AND after discarding Nival's early work for H6. Sure we'd all love more but money does not grow on trees.”

Also could be mentioned that although Ubisoft has the financial power, I don`t think that Heroes is one of the biggest money earner, after all they have Assassin Creed, Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Tom Clancy + Whatever license, Raving Rabbits just to name a few so the bigger budget goes to this franchise while a smaller budget is given for the development of Heroes for example, although I could be wrong since I don`t know the revenue the franchise brought Ubisoft (But  most are multi platform while Heroes Isn’t  except some minor spin offs)


“Thats why these game need to cut the 3D crap and return to their 2D roots, leave the 3D to the shooters.”

As nostalgic as it may be, this day and age It`s suicide fore a dev. (unless you are a Indie Game Dev.), and I don`t want to sound like the Devil`s Advocate but pretty shine games sell, this is the Day and Age we live in, so no I think going back to 2D would be suicide for the franchise even though you would have a core fan base who buys the game the masses would most probably avoid it resulting in low sales , and let’s be honest Ubisoft is in the business to make money, and if something doesn’t make money you cut it out. O and Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter didn`t return to 2D, they are pretty shine 3D games but they returned to the classic 2D plain game play


“Thirdly - Following your untested logic, do you ACTUALLY really think that if there were less creatures or factions in H3 they would be any better? I'm actually curious of a justification for something sounding so radically opposite to what we know from experience.”

No but makes balancing much easier, and after you iron that out you can come and bring new units and factions, creatures  and when you know what you`re doing you can work batter,faster.
P.S. Black Hole is trying to get the hang of it game play likewise, lore and mechanics of HEROES and is a lot safer to start with less faction and work your way up (This is just my presumption)

____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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