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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 76 77 78 79 80 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2010 09:04 PM

Quote:
Quote:

If H5 had Quality AND Quantity, and the factions were balanced/unique...WTH STOPS H6 FROM DOING THE SAME???
Quote:

Yeah i still cant get over how unique a bunch of fat dwarfes in fortress were.



Well OK, forget about them please, without the Fortress, it still leaves 7 factions, two more than H6.

BESIDES, that's the same thing I can say about H6 Stronghold, a bunch of fat Orcs - very unique indeed. They could have kicked out 2 of the 4 stupid Orcs and included Wyvern, Roc, or Behemoth, whatever. What do you say about THAT?

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted December 23, 2010 09:20 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 21:25, 23 Dec 2010.

Boring Dwarfs or not, their abilities where still unique.
So the problem wasn't that they had 8 factions, it was that they where bad at creating cool units.
And they hd to do was to replace the boring units in Stronghold, Fortress and all the other factions with cool units that still had the unique abilities of the boring units.

to be honest I think 8 is the perfect number for factions, but it might take a expansion or two to get it right.


And some of you guys seriously needs to learn to quote properly!
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted December 23, 2010 09:46 PM
Edited by vitorsly at 21:50, 23 Dec 2010.

Quote:
Quote:
Filler units in H3:

Rampart: green/gold dragons



I can pretty much agree on all of the above except for your Rampart selection? Gold Dragons filler? Really? They were only the second most powerful unit in the game behind the Black Dragons (the 4 neutral dragons introduced in the expansion not included).



What was the problem in the good old Phoenix from H1 and H2?
For me I want only one living dragon (necropolis gets my excuse) part of a faction!

Quote:
As for diverging story lines, I'm usually against it. In my opinion, I would rather have one awesome story that is X hours long instead of 5 stories that are X/5 hours long. Whenever you create a branch, you add complexity with integrating all possible choices with all possible results and not all of us want to replay an entire campaign just to experience two different maps.



You should really play this

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Charrclaw
Charrclaw


Known Hero
posted December 23, 2010 10:04 PM

If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple as that -.-

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2010 10:15 PM

Quote:
Quote:

BESIDES, that's the same thing I can say about H6 Stronghold, a bunch of fat Orcs - very unique indeed. They could have kicked out 2 of the 4 stupid Orcs and included Wyvern, Roc, or Behemoth, whatever. What do you say about THAT?

Its still much better than H5 stronghold. Oh look you only have 6 factions left!! Can you see where this is going?


Erm, nope. I have 7 because H5 Stronghold was FAR BETTER than the H6 crap (only the Harpy from there looks good, and maybe one of the Orcs) whereas in H5, there were more cool units: Shaman (say what you want, but a quite interestingly designed human female Shaman is better than an old fat Orc of whom there is already too many), Wyvern, Cyclops (which looked good, not that I don't like the H6 one, it just looks like a deformed pile of junk, like Abomination from Warcraft, only with one eye)

I must say I particularly don't dislike any H5 OR H6 faction, the only thing that I don't like about the lineup (apart from H6 Stronghold, which apart from the Harpy, Centaur, and Cyclops is disgraceful) is the absence of Nightmares, Imps, and Efreet (yes I know he wasn't in H5, but the H5 lineup was OK as it was) the Imp culd easily replace the stupid Maniac, the Nightmare or Efreet could replace the Excruciator. I actually like the Cerberus, Breeder, Succubus, Pit Lord, and Demon.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted December 23, 2010 10:34 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Filler units in H3:

Rampart: green/gold dragons


I can pretty much agree on all of the above except for your Rampart selection? Gold Dragons filler? Really? They were only the second most powerful unit in the game behind the Black Dragons (the 4 neutral dragons introduced in the expansion not included).


What was the problem in the good old Phoenix from H1 and H2?
For me I want only one living dragon (necropolis gets my excuse) part of a faction!

For me, it's not the number of Dragons that are the problem. In fact, I liked both the Black Dragon and the Gold Dragon, but I would have liked them to go through with the concept and make the Rampart dragons pure metallic (Bronze, Silver, Gold), thus emphasizing that they are good and distinctively different from the evil chromatic dragons (green, red, black).

Also, they could have done more to make them different, for instance in same of giving them exactly the same breath attack, one could have had an acid attack or something, a bit like they did with some of the AB dragons, and also was scheduled for H5 dragons (but then abandoned for some unknown reasons until TotE came out).
____________
What will happen now?

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 23, 2010 11:08 PM

rampart dragons should have been asian-styled dragons which would fit very nicely with the japanese architecture of that town
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 24, 2010 02:32 AM

lol its impossible to ever compare heroes to starcraft

Heroes will never ever be an e-sport

It hasn't a huge fanbase and more importantly, turn-based games play out completly differently than fast paced games such as Starcraft
watching a Heroes match on youtube would be really boring I think and the strategy is very limited in heroes, with the same 7 creatures in all factions

I am actually working on a Heroes VII idea already where I have include an armor type and weapon type system (X weapon deals more damage to X armour etc). In the idea, each town has 12 creatures (5 core, 4 elite, 3 champion).
The game would use a counter-unit system similar to that of Starcraft so if your enemy recruits Heavy-armored Treants you would buy Dragons with the Shattering-damage type which counters Heavy armor etc.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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whiterider
whiterider


Known Hero
death walks with me
posted December 24, 2010 09:37 AM

No matter how many races we have at one moment they will become boring if the game doesnt have a strategic depth. Warlord Battlecry series have 9 or 12 faction (I,II,III part) and after playing a lot it doesnt really matter which one you pick up. What does matter really is the gameplay and the various abilities. IF Heroes 6 has many creatures with no abilities at all, I will not look at it, or if the hero-level up stinks. 5 factions are good for me if they are completly different one from another.


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Agent_00_BLeRD
Agent_00_BLeRD


Adventuring Hero
posted December 24, 2010 09:42 AM

Quote:
Swamplord:
I disagree strongly with the Pikeman; it was a staple of the Knight town since HI, and seeing it gone in HV was quite disappointing.

He just seems to be way too similar to the other units in that town. Perhaps that's because there isn't much room for variation when you have a town almost entirely filled with human but I wish they had made him more of a pikeman than a level 1 warrior (i.e. given him a long reach attack like in H4 or bonus against cavalry)

Quote:
SkrentyzMienty:
THOSE were your "fillers" ? WOW, just wow...

H6 has half the number of factions, half the number of creatures, YET MANY MORE "FILLERS"

Look at the stupid Maniac, Excrutiator, friggin 4 identical Orcs (easily replaced by Wyverns or Rocs), Glories...should I continue? These truly uninspired and improvised on the spot creatures are FAR more deserving to be called "fillers" than the H3 ones you gave, most of which are very good creatures anyways.


Just because there are allegedly more fillers in H6 doesn't mean these units aren't fillers themselves.

Fillers in H6:
Haven: Glories, perhaps. I would like to think them as a better version of monks, especially if they end up having ranged attacks. Then they would be quite a good fit, lorewise.
Inferno: Maniac, Tormentor. I agree that only one of them is needed. The other could have been replaced by someone else.
Necropolis: Lamasu seems like it was hastily thrown it but I'd still like to see it in action. Couldn't be happier to see the fat slow zombies go. Nobody loved them.
Stronghold: I haven't seen the pictures of elite units other than the centaur so can't really comment here.

If you want to talk about filler units, look at most of the alternate upgrades in H5. Most of those were filler units. A few, like Sylvan, were a much needed improvement. Other, like dwarves, were just flesh sacks with different colors.

Quote:
KingImp:
I can pretty much agree on all of the above except for your Rampart selection? Gold Dragons filler? Really? They were only the second most powerful unit in the game behind the Black Dragons.


It was "just another dragon". I think they would have done well to put the phoenix in there.

Quote:
vitorsly:
You should really play this


Fun game and I get your point but this seems more like choosing which skill set you want rather than changing the direction of the story (I didn't play this game too much so I may be wrong). A couple of alternate missions are good but if they branch off into other directions, that reduces the overall length of the campaign, something that I would not like.

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted December 24, 2010 10:40 AM
Edited by Kenishi at 10:42, 24 Dec 2010.

Quote:
Boring Dwarfs or not, their abilities where still unique.
So the problem wasn't that they had 8 factions, it was that they where bad at creating cool units.
And they hd to do was to replace the boring units in Stronghold, Fortress and all the other factions with cool units that still had the unique abilities of the boring units.

to be honest I think 8 is the perfect number for factions, but it might take a expansion or two to get it right.


And some of you guys seriously needs to learn to quote properly!


Are you referring to this

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/376755

Or the use of the quote command

Non the less the quoting can be used with variation depending from region and or country, so It`s not "quote properly" but according to the accepted rule of the forum (written or not), and will do (speaking for myself).

On topic the art and the concept of the Dwarf could have used better thinking, but the whole rune system and some of the abilities were fairley creative, but overall for me the faction was disappointing, and again do to the poor design of the units.  
____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Aatos
Aatos


Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
posted December 24, 2010 12:19 PM
Edited by Aatos at 12:21, 24 Dec 2010.

I agree with Kenishi on this

Quote:
“Excuse me but are you serious? I am giving argumentation: "Look at H5, it had a good number of factions, and they all played REALLY differently (racials etc.), and NONE of the creatures were "copies of themselves"  „obviously you didn't read my post thoroughly.”

Well Heroes 5 had 6 Faction, if we’re talking about Heroes 5 + 2 add-ons it`s eight, so the difference in 6 or 5 ,I can`t say it was cut down so bad, taking in consideration that we will have expansion we will get  more factions.

“Thats why these game need to cut the 3D crap and return to their 2D roots, leave the 3D to the shooters.”

As nostalgic as it may be, this day and age It`s suicide fore a dev. (unless you are a Indie Game Dev.), and I don`t want to sound like the Devil`s Advocate but pretty shine games sell, this is the Day and Age we live in, so no I think going back to 2D would be suicide for the franchise even though you would have a core fan base who buys the game the masses would most probably avoid it resulting in low sales , and let’s be honest Ubisoft is in the business to make money, and if something doesn’t make money you cut it out. O and Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter didn`t return to 2D, they are pretty shine 3D games but they returned to the classic 2D plain game play

“Thirdly - Following your untested logic, do you ACTUALLY really think that if there were less creatures or factions in H3 they would be any better? I'm actually curious of a justification for something sounding so radically opposite to what we know from experience.”

No but makes balancing much easier, and after you iron that out you can come and bring new units and factions, creatures  and when you know what you`re doing you can work batter,faster.
P.S. Black Hole is trying to get the hang of it game play likewise, lore and mechanics of HEROES and is a lot safer to start with less faction and work your way up (This is just my presumption)


And I agree with DarkLord on this

Quote:
Quantity -

more creatures / more abilities / more skills / more factions / more maps etc!!!
you want more more more...and MORE!!!!
will they be ready unitll March 11th??? answer is NO!
Let's be realistic.. you can't have EVERYTHING!!!
OR give Ubihole another 2 years, and wait... wait... wait...
and...
..
..
..wait again...
so i find argument Pointless!!! you HAVE to choose what is really important!!!

and here comest the

Quality!!! -

few BUT awesome creatures / 5 but perfectly unique balanced factions / Storyline which is Interesting to read/play/live ...  
Can it be implimented till March!!! Yes it CAN!!! that's my point..
Whatever have been promised by Dev's should be Good quality! that's what i expect..!
I think they are doing pretty good job so far.


Many topics and comments are being repeated. Members agree on something and then after several days the same discussion starts again.
____________
To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted December 24, 2010 12:22 PM

Just to remind everyone that the development has been started long before August 2010 and they are not obliged to finish the thing before the end of March next year. This is producer's decision actually, not developer's.

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted December 24, 2010 03:26 PM

Quote:
Just to remind everyone that the development has been started long before August 2010 and they are not obliged to finish the thing before the end of March next year. This is producer's decision actually, not developer's.



True enough and to be taken in consideration the fact that 2011 March is going to be a month full of games being lunched, therefore it wouldn`t be surprising to see a postponing.  (God forbid)
But regardless I hope to see a Demo release before that or even better a Beta before the Demo …  

I wish all of the forum readers a Merry Christmas (Please feel free to put your one holiday if of any other religion).

____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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spamm
spamm


Hired Hero
posted December 24, 2010 07:31 PM

[url=http://spammmods.narod.ru/mmh6/mmh6_draft_eng.pdf]mmh6_draft_eng.pdf[/url]

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Omnipotence
Omnipotence


Hired Hero
posted December 24, 2010 07:32 PM

And yet still we obssess ourselves over long gone heroes and past factions without promoting innovation and imagination and instead regurgitation.
____________
"Life... Liberty... And The Pursuit Of All Who Threaten It." - United States Navy

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mytheroes
mytheroes


Famous Hero
posted December 24, 2010 08:28 PM

Quote:
Quote:
It's not confirmed that they will be in H6, only that they somehow exist in Ashan and could make a comeback in future installments.


i find it a HUGE hint!!! in addition to some Dev's interviews.. don't remember where i saw it exactly..
i don't think it's just coincidence that they post this info about heroes before the HoMM6 release, stating that they EXIST in the world of Ashan!


Hint of Sandro being in Ashan is not new actually. In H5 there is an artifact called Sandro's Cloak or something which negates mind-immunity.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted December 24, 2010 08:43 PM

Sandro is also been reported as the mentor to Markal, the Necromancer of the Necro campaign in HoMMV vanilla.
____________
Vote El Presidente! Or Else!

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted December 24, 2010 08:50 PM

Quote:
Sandro is also been reported as the mentor to Markal, the Necromancer of the Necro campaign in HoMMV vanilla.


And let`s not forget Crag Hack who is also mentioned.
____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted December 24, 2010 09:13 PM

As i looked through the Stronghold line up  I've noticed that the upgraded version for the Cyclops is Enraged Cyclops.

Enraged like permanently or sometimes or just when his hungry or on the battlefield, or he has a ability like Hulk which makes him more powerful the angrier he is, I don't know just feels like the name's not expressing the unit well.
Any of the following would have felt better (from my point of view):

Savage Cyclops.

Blood-bound Cyclops / Blood-driven Cyclops (expresses the influence of the demonic blood makes him crave for chaos, seeks to destroy, which makes him dangerous and unpredictable even among fellow Cyclops)

Ravenous Cyclops

A little less acceptable would be:

Berserker Cyclops

Ferocious Cyclops

Bloodthirsty Cyclops

 This are just a few that came in mind. I bet there are better alternatives to the Enraged Cyclops and the one's i mentioned.


     
____________
No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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