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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 (92) 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted January 06, 2011 04:39 PM

How about a hint then?

Quote:
Imperial Griffins have spent many years with their human allies, and have learned the tactical importance of weakening an enemy line in battle..


Yeah I love the descriptions
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He'll infect us with his idiocy. Run for it!

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted January 06, 2011 04:43 PM

I feel your pain War-overlord. Don't get me wrong I'm all for the descriptions like this I love it!! The thing is it's just a bit hard to understand if you haven't seen it yet. I for example didn't understand a thing the Vampire did. Except that I knew one of those things had to be lifedrain. The middle ability sounds like some form of laststand+incorporality or something but no idea really. But I don't mind that one bit. It's all good.

You should check out the Screenshots, especially the one with the Archer. You can see that there are new stats introduced and apparently they've changed the luck system (unless the archer REALLY has 10 luck in the same way a unit would have 10 luck in H5).
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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MarceS
MarceS


Hired Hero
posted January 06, 2011 04:44 PM

The Juggernauts have made a pact with Ur-Khrag, the Overlord of Destruction. In exchange for their promise to destroy all that Asha has created, they have been given an organic armor that mutates constantly, making it impossible to hamper magically .

100% magic immunity. Love it

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted January 06, 2011 04:45 PM

You've got to love everything else about them too. The Juggernaughts are so awesome.
____________
"The superior man is modest in
his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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veco
veco


Legendary Hero
peek-a-boo!
posted January 06, 2011 04:46 PM
Edited by veco at 16:47, 06 Jan 2011.

hamper doesn't mean harm, I suppose they're immune to debuffs
____________
Sometimes I feel like strangling squirrels!

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Willis
Willis


Known Hero
posted January 06, 2011 04:48 PM
Edited by Willis at 16:50, 06 Jan 2011.

The Juggernaut descriptions got me hoping they could just ram straight through a castle wall. I doubt that will be the case, though. Getting my main stacks (not gated) through walls was always an issue for me as Inferno. I guess they'll be able to beat it down, at least.

edit: ^^ the explanations are not particularly native-english friendly, either.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted January 06, 2011 04:50 PM

Quote:
Also the ghoul has 2 very boring non-suiting special-abilities, where is the corpse eating thing that suits ghouls like a glove?

Weren't you the one that did not want homm to be wowfied?

Ghosts are not incorporeal in an H5 sense, your attacks won't miss anymore.
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He'll infect us with his idiocy. Run for it!

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 06, 2011 05:25 PM

Quote:
EDIT what about a randomness switch? You can put randomness on or off with a click of your mouse... chaotic players like myself turn it on and players that are more into order put it out, this is win-win situation people!

hahaha Yeah I agree maybe not a ingame one though, but when I play single player I have nothing against randomness.
But when I (hopefully) going to play multiplayer I don't want randomness to stop me from winning

Randomness should be used in things like RANDOM MAP GENRATOR


by the way anyone else who really loves Wail of the Netherworld?
I mean it will work the best on a unit that is completely in the heat of the battle AWESOME!
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted January 06, 2011 06:06 PM

There seems to be a lot of abilities in Heroes VI; each upgrade seems to have both a passive and an active. Interesting...
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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Cepheus
Cepheus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
posted January 06, 2011 06:18 PM

Quote:
There seems to be a lot of abilities in Heroes VI; each upgrade seems to have both a passive and an active. Interesting...


Many many abilities indeed, with great variation and compexity. They seem to have thought it out quite thoroughly. You will be spoiled for choice here, so the only problem I could foresee is that it may be a ***** to balance...
____________
"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII

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Lokheit
Lokheit


Adventuring Hero
posted January 06, 2011 07:07 PM
Edited by Lokheit at 19:08, 06 Jan 2011.

Nice update for the website When it's supposed to have every unit we currently know?

Only (lesser) things I would complain, if any, is that some 3D models seem unfinished, like the juggernaut that happens to have less horns and spikes than both, the artwork and the one from the trailer, or the ghoul cutting his own leg on the animation. And finally, that the upgraded hellbound receives the multiple target skill but they seems to maintain the same number of heads, so if they have multiple target, the basic unit should have it.

I want to see the Fate Spinner models for both, human form and arachnid form, she is the coolest adition this far *.*

And a question: since the 2 bosses that we have seen so far are like ultimate versions of level 7 units, does this giant serpent boss and that "maybe one of the creatures from the 5th faction is a flyer without wings" means that their level 7 is going to be an smaller water serpents? I think it would be cool.

EDIT: I haven't played online but I have played a LOT of hot-seat with my friends, I suppose the experience is more or less the same and I recommend playing against other players.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 06, 2011 07:14 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 19:16, 06 Jan 2011.

Okay the Vampires....
As they grow in power, Liches may earn the right to be embraced by the Spider Goddess herself to die and be reborn as Akhkharus, or "Vampires".
So they are older, more experianced? Okay I get that

So Liches...
Huh, never mind I read the other line for the vampire where it said that they gained a rejuvenated body, cleansed from all defects.
Meh I wanted to bash at the vampire for looking so damn stupid

anyways I love the lore for the liches, but they still look better in Dark Messiah
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 06, 2011 09:04 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 21:05, 06 Jan 2011.

I think that is just a lore thing, if not it seems dangerous to engage in small battles where you might not even get to use your Vampires.
Anyway I must also say that the lore for the Vampire is really something that made me excited.
Quote:
As they grow in power, Liches may earn the right to be embraced by the Spider Goddess herself to die and be reborn as Akhkharus, or "Vampires".

They undergo an excruciating ritual but gain a rejuvenated body, cleansed from all defects. Vampires don't need to eat, drink, sleep or breathe anymore as all their organs are "petrified," and it is not blood, but the sacred spider's venom, that now flows in their veins.

However, they need to drink human blood on a regular basis to thin this venom down, and prevent it from dissolving their body from the inside.


A "normal" vampire(the more common interpretation) would drink human blood and then that human would also become a vampire, or if the vampire made some kind of ritual while drinking. However in my opinion nither of those would fit the well in Ashan, but the way that they are created in this lore is really awesome
It gives a new kind of respect for the Vampires of Ashan
The Heroes of the Necropolis have intresting ways of achieving power or preserve it. Become a Lich and then maybe a Vampire if you wish to have the looks. In any case I'll be immortal
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted January 07, 2011 01:02 AM
Edited by Kenishi at 01:09, 07 Jan 2011.

Quote:


I want to see the Fate Spinner models for both, human form and arachnid form, she is the coolest addition this far *.*




   Not only that if it was up to my I would make her as a high end resin figurine instead of Michael.
 
   As I read through the Necro units description they seam to have taken seriously the hole faction Warfare description "A dead enemy is a good ally"
   Vampires (as I see) have there Out of Time ability allowing them to withstand more and give the the ability to regenerate as less dmg they take the more dmg they deal resulting in more hp from regeneration.
    Than you have ghost that act like healers and Lich to which are able steal life and give to another and gives bonus to the heroes magic spells.

    The griffin ability Diving Assault well i think the "enemy line in battle" refers to attacking all units on a line (similar to the alternative upgrade in H5 ToE) and "at the moment they think the greatest danger has passed" i guess it refers to the moment the designated unit attacks or retaliates

    The Cerberus have "Two heads" ... o well is just off but nothing i can live with.

JUGGERNAUT and the Unstoppable Charge well be useful at clearing obstacles on the battle filed and (I really hope) for dmg. the castle walls, while Taunting Presence hmm i guess would divert attack from a allied unit close by to himself (maybe even magic?!)

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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted January 07, 2011 02:17 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 02:18, 07 Jan 2011.

Quote:
There are people who will miss the old incorporeality??

I actually didn't mind it too much. I think it added an interesting element of strategy to the fight when you were up against ghosts, because you had to plan for some fodder to eat their retaliation (in case you missed) and then storm them before their next turn to take out the stack.

I think there should have been counters - certain Light spells like for instance Divine Strength should have given a guaranteed hit, or at least increased chance - but the idea itself didn't bother me too much.

Damage reduction essentially just is increasing their HP by a huge amount, which makes it less unique. I gather (in contrary to what someone suggested) that damage reduction is *only* to physical and *not* to magical damage - otherwise, the ability would indeed be pointless.
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Heroes 7 - News overview | Heroes 7 - Discussion thread

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Knut_Are_M
Knut_Are_M

Tavern Dweller
posted January 07, 2011 03:25 AM

on the issue of dwellings there are a few issues.
in previous heroes of might and magic games haveing 1 huge stack often beats 2 half sized stacks. especially in melee.
another issue is creature growth.
and here i do hope they increase core/elite growth per dwelling+ per upgrade. The reason is if they do not then it is often a waste of money to get the other creature dwellings even if they are just as good.
You would most of the time just pick one core dwelling and just jump to elite after that and then champion because it costs you too much to get them all.balance decides when you will choose to get the upgrades.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 07, 2011 03:51 AM

If they go for the Heroes Kingdoms approach (rock-paper-cissor), then a single stack of one creature will be a risky bet.

In HK, units were spread in 3 categories : shooters (anything that shoots arrow, bolts, magic), melees (the slow tank unit), cavalry (the fast and frail units) with the rule shooters > melees > cavalry > shooters.

This means that (in HK) a shooter attacking a melee will do X% more damage, but they'll do X% less damage vs cavalry
Likewise, cavalry will do X% more damage vs shooters but X% less vs melees. And melees will ofc do X% more damage vs cavalry but X% less vs shooters.

IF they take such an approach, a Haven player who would only recruit Marksmen (shooters) could be easily countered by a Stronghold player who would only recruit Harpies (Cavalry). That same Haven player would also have a hardtime clearing his area if the neutral monsters guarding his mines/artifacts are mostly cavalry.

Time will tell us, but Ubisoft said in one of the early Q&A that they were working on balancing the creatures between each tier.

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hahakocka
hahakocka


Adventuring Hero
posted January 07, 2011 04:01 AM

A background music would be welcome from Heroes VI soundtrack I think, for this great looking new official page.

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Knut_Are_M
Knut_Are_M

Tavern Dweller
posted January 07, 2011 04:49 AM
Edited by Knut_Are_M at 05:07, 07 Jan 2011.

not really you just do 1 shooter core for creeping. and 1 elite tank for protection. (it may hold a huge risk but the reward is great)
oh and counters depend on math, but alot of the time there will be a faction that can use a unit to break the rules.
Exsamples of units that often cause huge headaces.
fast ranged units.
huge HP tanks combined with destructive magic.
fast no retaliation units.

Ps melees cannot counter cavalry in heroes of might and magic 1-6
reason is melees cannot reach cavalry at all.
cavalry waits, and does strike and return and ends archers.
unless you are going to remove the wait command that is.

cavalry >all if they are fast enough to reach archers in 1 turn.
Tanks >all if the heroes destructive magic is good enough.

Ps ubisoft should be very careful with gateing, as in perhaps make gateing go next to the unit that is doing the gateing. Homm5 gateing with 1 move per turn would make archers a very poor choice vs inferno.


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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted January 07, 2011 05:11 AM

On the issue of hoarding a specific unit.

Even in H5 a huge amount of cavaliers would lose to a slightly smaller cavalier stack aided by two small inquisitor and zealot stacks. Of course those are pure support units so you do not need to sacrifice much cavalier growth, other situations in H6 might be more interesting to figure out.
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