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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted January 09, 2011 06:50 AM |
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Ha, I was right, Naga are the fifth race.
Kappas: Pretty good imo, better than the GW Kappas.
Shark Warriors: I'm a little dissapointed! It's not the worst, but certainly not the best, just not shark enough, and why does it have feet?
Coral Maidens: Only one female true Naga Unit!? COme on, Ubisoft and Black Hole! I've always been taught that Naga are female, so why is there only 1 true female naga, the other two females don't really count, cause' they're spirity elemntal things. But it's cool enough, needs a better name.
Spring Spirits: Meh.
Wave Warriors: 2 words: ******* awesome! 
Snow Maiden: Meh X 2 plus a little ohhs and ahhs, but still meh. COuldn't we get one spirity elemental thing? Nooooo... Ubi and Black Hole just love this spirity elemental thing, it was good for the shinging Haven units, and the Sun Charger's mount was unbelievably epic, but now it's just a cliche.
Kirin: Pretty cool, but doesn't really come to mind when I think of Kirin. In fact, I'm not that good on Asian mythology, but aren't Kirins associated with fire?
All in all, not too bad! I will now take my army of Wave Warriors, Maulers, and Juggernauts, and destroy all my enemies.
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Vini Vidi Vici
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted January 09, 2011 06:53 AM |
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Hotarubi; I've been waiting for some kind of tribute or successor to the HIII Fortress for 8 years, so please don't dismiss my opinions so frivolously. Time spent in the community shouldn't dictate the value of your opinion. 
In any case, Fortress does have a fair bit of fans; look at the town competition on here, for instance. There's certainly a degree of nostalgia behind it. However, it's hardly valid to dismiss anyone who wants the only town still completely neglected back into the series in some way as completely incorrect.
I agree that the Coral Maiden is more or less a medusa, which is quite cool.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 06:58 AM |
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Quote:
When people hear the word "jungle", a certain kind of tropical image infested with insects might come to mind. But did we ever get a clear high res screenshot of what the jungle terrain might look like? It might look more like a spring water kind of a terrain for all we know.
A while ago in one of those Gamescom reports I think, it was confirmed that it's the jungle terrain we've seen on the pictures and the gameplay video. It's basically the regular plains with some kinda palm trees to me, but there was that water pool thing from where the dragon eel comes from. Maybe they added more details since then. I don't think it's insect-infested because that would be more like a swamp while these units have a much cleaner appearance, but I guess it's some sorta "tropical paradise" thing still.
Jackson: I think Ubi said there are 10 factions in the current Might & Magic world and Naga is the 9th so I doubt they'd use up the last one as a swamp faction with more reptilian units. And personally I don't see a brand new faction coming up in the H6 expansions, they might want to keep it for later games where they can pull off the "never before seen" thing again.
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Lichking012
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 07:04 AM |
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Well that's just your opinion and I don't see how the rest of the factions bar Inferno "portray their terrain", neither how it's any worse than when 2 factions share the same terrain, same goes for the sense of unity, that depends on perception
It's not my opinion that ice and sharks don't belong in a jungle, its common sense. haven fits in a field, its fits the medieval thing. Stronghold makes sense where it is. Necropolis makes sense in a WASTELAND. Haven on plains etc. plus having two factions on a terrain that makes sense is far better than having one faction on a terrain that doesn't fit.
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It's not like their lineup has mermaids, crabs, shells and stuff that directly belong to the water and look out of place on the land.
like sharks?
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those you listed are in the factions of orcs and elves, just like the kappa is among naga now the point is, an orc unit is called "jaguar warrior" and not "something orc" just like how coral maiden won't be called "something naga", neither we have "human sisters". The races that dominate a faction are never used in unit titles anymore.
ok Fair enough, although, I don't think that coral maidens are Nagas i think they are medusas based on the snakes in hair. So I see the wave warrior as the only naga, so the title naga makes some sense. But fair enough.
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would have been, but they didn't want to do it. The Fortress nostalgia is hugely exaggerated by the same handful of people over and over again and even if ONE unit appeared from Fortress, I know more people would have called them lazy after they promised a full new faction
It won the best faction of all time contest, thats hardly a small group of vocal people. And we have never had naga units or medusa units before? plus, I don't see how remaking an old unit is better than having the same unit copied and pasted. Or for that matter an obviously unimaginative, stereotypical, and ill-fitting unit.
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Hotarubi
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 07:08 AM |
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Hotarubi; I've been waiting for some kind of tribute or successor to the HIII Fortress for 8 years, so please don't dismiss my opinions so frivolously. Time spent in the community shouldn't dictate the value of your opinion.
All I'm saying is, my argument was more along the lines of- they promised us a NEW faction for the 5th one and a new one we should get... not some sort of "reinvention" or a rehash of an old one. That's it. As much as I dislike the Fortress and don't ever want to see it again, I do recognize it has a following (I still don't understand why). If they scrapped the Orcs and had the Fortress instead, I could not care less cuz I don't care for either faction either way. But the 5th faction was marketed as an entirely new faction (just as it had been with the Matriarchal Dungeon), and I am exxxxxxxxxxxcited to have something pretty new in this universe.
To the other poster:
The problem with renaming the Coral Maiden a Medusa is that the Coral Maiden is fundamentally, a female naga. To name her a Medusa would be odd. So is she then a Naga and a Medusa? If they came up with some sort of odd reinvention of the Ashan conception of female Nagas (gee I dunno, maybe elite female nagas that go into battle are SOMEHOW called Medusae in Naga culture, for SOME concocted reason), I could probably go along with it. But I suppose what I'm really longing for is a comeback of the II version of the Medusa.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted January 09, 2011 07:20 AM |
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Aha, so it's okay for the Coral Maiden to become a Medusa (an old Heroes unit) if it can be justified in lore, but not for Fortress units to slip in? Bit of a double standard, don't you think? 
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 07:23 AM |
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It's not my opinion that ice and sharks don't belong in a jungle, its common sense. haven fits in a field, its fits the medieval thing. Stronghold makes sense where it is. Necropolis makes sense in a WASTELAND. Haven on plains etc. plus having two factions on a terrain that makes sense is far better than having one faction on a terrain that doesn't fit.
like sharks?
They are shark-men with legs and not actual sharks that swam out of the sea and are pretending to be able to live outside the water.
Ice is a variation of water in this case, they are here because of the water dragon alignment, it's not like it makes any more sense to have the Blazing Glory on the plains, there's too much importance given to terrain. Not to mention that at first many of us thought the Orcs are in the jungle because of their appearances, the Centaur used to be on different terrains in older games etc, it's not that much of an issue really.
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ok Fair enough, although, I don't think that coral maidens are Nagas i think they are medusas based on the snakes in hair. So I see the wave warrior as the only naga, so the title naga makes some sense. But fair enough.
I think it's kind of a nod to H3 where we had 2 similar looking units with different names, now they are saying the medusa equals a female naga and at the moment it's assumed all the female naga have snake hair (look at the cave behind Mother Namtaru). If they didn't pull this off, there would have been complaints about more Warcraft similarities.
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It won the best faction of all time contest, thats hardly a small group of vocal people. And we have never had naga units or medusa units before? plus, I don't see how remaking an old unit is better than having the same unit copied and pasted. Or for that matter an obviously unimaginative, stereotypical, and ill-fitting unit.
How many times is this going to be brought up? Yes it won a poll here (which I didn't even participate in except for one round by the way) but it doesn't mean much when everyone knows it gets more attention as being the only proper faction not re-introduced in H5, I understand there are people who love it, but it never was among the classic towns and it was in a different kind of Heroes-universe, like the Dungeon without dark elves, those days are gone. And while Ubi does take advice from the fans, I really don't think they should cater to relatively individual wishes like this, especially since it's a different developer team altogether and they want to add their own stuff instead of just rehashing what other people created more than a decade ago. Outside the human faction they are making a lot of progress in this, I give them credit for that.
And yes we had Naga/Medusa units before, just like Dwarves, but it's still a new faction while a swamp town with reptiles would still be more of a rehash.
Swamplord: It's likely it won't be the Faceless, it's assumed they don't make up a faction just like the Angels. But it's probably not set in stone at Ubi either and we won't have to worry about this for a really long time.
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Jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted January 09, 2011 07:30 AM |
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Quote:
Jackson: I think Ubi said there are 10 factions in the current Might & Magic world and Naga is the 9th so I doubt they'd use up the last one as a swamp faction with more reptilian units. And personally I don't see a brand new faction coming up in the H6 expansions, they might want to keep it for later games where they can pull off the "never before seen" thing again.
I agree, it's unlikely. Furthermore, I hardly care. Sure there are some factions that I'd prefer over other ones, but ultimately I don't care what the faction is, just so long as it's well-made. I wrote what I did more in sympathy with all those who were wishing for the Naga faction to be a sort of spiritual successor to the H3 Fortress. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing them again, but I don't care very much either way.
I forgot that they specified there are 10 factions in Ashan (and I don't know why they specified that  ), but I did say that having a second reptilian race could be a reason not to bring back the H3 Fortress.
As far as the new factions goes, though, I'm pretty happy with it. And I do like the shark warriors, but maybe just 'cause I like sharks.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted January 09, 2011 07:35 AM |
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Quote:
How many times is this going to be brought up? Yes it won a poll here (which I didn't even participate in except for one round by the way) but it doesn't mean much when everyone knows it gets more attention as being the only proper faction not re-introduced in H5, I understand there are people who love it, but it never was among the classic towns and it was in a different kind of Heroes-universe, like the Dungeon without dark elves, those days are gone. And while Ubi does take advice from the fans, I really don't think they should cater to relatively individual wishes like this, especially since it's a different developer team altogether and they want to add their own stuff instead of just rehashing what other people created more than a decade ago. Outside the human faction they are making a lot of progress in this, I give them credit for that.
It was never among the classic towns, but hey, neither was Inferno and that's now become pivotal to the series.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 07:40 AM |
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Edited by Danny at 07:40, 09 Jan 2011.
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It was never among the classic towns, but hey, neither was Inferno and that's now become pivotal to the series.
That's true and I'd take Fortress over Inferno (though their H6 incarnation might change my mind) but apparently Inferno fits the developers' vision, most likely because they can be called a "race" very easily and create a story around them.
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Hotarubi
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 07:46 AM |
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I said, "I could probably go along with it." It just means I might be open to the idea precisely because I have liked the Medusa creature personally since it came up in the HOMM universe in the second game. I don't like any of the Fortress creatures, plain and simple.
I'm not saying I will like the justification in lore, since ideally, what I would like is the resurrection of the II Medusa- melee, somewhat tanky for a middle level creature, and so on. Whether it appears in the naga faction or a neutral unit or some faction in the future matters little to me. This is what I feel regrettable based on the Coral Maiden's design. She definitely does not look melee, nor does she look like she will serve a front line purpose. But if she were renamed a Medusa for some reason, I'd probably take it if that's the best that I can expect from the Ashan/Ubisoft universe. In other words, getting something as a portion of an ideal is better than not getting an ideal.
Besides, I'm sure you've recognized my reservations about the issue- is the CM a naga then or a medusa? Or both? I'd rather keep them separate. As I said, I prefer the Geisha naga reminiscent of Ledroit's early concept art.
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Foonlegacy
Hired Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 07:48 AM |
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*sigh* there are no words to describe how disappointed I am with the new faction. Though I will say the wave warrior, kappa and medusa fits nicely...the rest needs to be scrapped...I mean a freakin shark warrior, seriously? Have they been watching Pirates of the Caribbean? The spring spirit and ice maiden look way similar and look just plain boring IMO and the water dragon looks just okay (I thought they weren't putting dragons in the line ups?). Seacrest Out!
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Lichking012
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 08:14 AM |
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The problem with renaming the Coral Maiden a Medusa is that the Coral Maiden is fundamentally, a female naga. To name her a Medusa would be odd. So is she then a Naga and a Medusa? If they came up with some sort of odd reinvention of the Ashan conception of female Nagas (gee I dunno, maybe elite female nagas that go into battle are SOMEHOW called Medusa in Naga culture, for SOME concocted reason), I could probably go along with it. But I suppose what I'm really longing for is a comeback of the II version of the Medusa.
It's fundamentally a Medusa. It is serpentine and has snakes in it's hair. It's a Medusa. Period. It's not a naga, can we come up with some contrived reasons like "medusas are nagas angry cousins who petrify people." yea but the fact of the matter is that they fit well thematically, and should go together from a game play standpoint, a story is never a good reason to have a crappy faction line up. Look at heroes 4. BEST stories in the series. Pretty much everything else was awful.
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I think it's kind of a nod to H3 where we had 2 similar looking units with different names, now they are saying the medusa equals a female naga and at the moment it's assumed all the female naga have snake hair (look at the cave behind Mother Namtaru). If they didn't pull this off, there would have been complaints about more Warcraft similarities.
It's a medusa, as stated above. If you wanna come up with some stupid-lore reason to call it that, fine idc. but calling it something else is stupid. plus if it's a naga why does it have a surprisingly beautiful face in comparison to the wave warrior? Also, why couldn't it be a medusa behind mother namtaru?
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And yes we had Naga/Medusa units before, just like Dwarves, but it's still a new faction while a swamp town with reptiles would still be more of a rehash
how is including old units in new ways a rehash?
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Hotarubi
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 08:30 AM |
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It's fundamentally a Medusa. It is serpentine and has snakes in it's hair. It's a Medusa. Period. It's not a naga, can we come up with some contrived reasons like "medusas are nagas angry cousins who petrify people." yea but the fact of the matter is that they fit well thematically, and should go together from a game play standpoint, a story is never a good reason to have a crappy faction line up. Look at heroes 4. BEST stories in the series. Pretty much everything else was awful.
I don't get it. If it's fundamentally a Medusa, why is it not called a Medusa (right now)? And why is the faction Naga? This Coral Maiden look is Ubisoft's creative team's conception of what the Naga female units will look like in the Ashan universe. Medusas for all we know do not exist in this universe because the female nagas have already taken their spot.
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It's a medusa, as stated above. If you wanna come up with some stupid-lore reason to call it that, fine idc. but calling it something else is stupid. plus if it's a naga why does it have a surprisingly beautiful face in comparison to the wave warrior? Also, why couldn't it be a medusa behind mother namtaru?
Calling it something else is stupid? Wow who gave you the power to make the rules? Yeesh. And if you wanna pick on its beautiful face and the male one's ugly one, the Orc Shamaness/Orc Warrior from HOMMV says hi.
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how is including old units in new ways a rehash?
HOMM V Dungeon. I sort of liked the new units, but mixing them with Minotaurs, Black Dragons, and Hydra... as well as naming their heroes Warlocks despite the dominance of the matriarchy, was sort of a slap to my face.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 08:35 AM |
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LichKing, there's no such thing as a "Medusa, period." it's matter of interpretation. Here's what Wikipedia says, citing a book:
It has been suggested that "most people today who are aware of the story of Perseus and Medusa owe their knowledge to the 1981 film Clash of the Titans." The battle with Medusa is memorable for its use of stop motion animation by special effects creator Ray Harryhausen. Having similar origins as being a cursed maiden, though her transformation was caused by Aphrodite, Medusa gains elements of a naga with a snake-like lower body and uses a bow and arrows as her weapon. Her blood is acidic and can create fearsome giant scorpions
It's not definitive for a Medusa to have a snake-like body and as far as I know, neither every woman with a snake lower body is automatically a Naga, Nightterror reminds us as many times as she can that the H3 Naga is in fact a Marilith.
So why can't Black Hole say their female Naga has a snake-hair? Most likely she cannot turn anyone into stone and as you said, she looks peaceful, so she's not evil like the "original" Medusa is, but she looks peaceful compared to the MALE Naga, you haven't seen any other female naga in H6 to know that Coral Maiden is just a Medusa. The males and females look different in Warcraft too, but there Nagas are mutated from one of the types elves if I'm not wrong, just that the females kept their faces while the men got more mutated, in H6 they decided the men are less humanoid "just because" (I'm assuming that's the case, since they are an elder race and not magical experiments by wizards).
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 09, 2011 08:58 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:03, 09 Jan 2011.
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The Heroes IV depiction of the Medusa is the closest to its mythological archtype (although there are differences of course). If you check the decorations of various Greek amphorae/vases where Medusa (or any of the Gorgons) is present, you'll find out that she is basically a very ugly woman with snake hair and wings. Here's an example:
The "more modern" version of Medusa actually looks like Echidna, who is the mother of the Gordons and many other monsters.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted January 09, 2011 09:03 AM |
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Other than that Medusa and the Gorgons were ugly monstrous female humanoids with apparent reptilian features, the Greeks didn't have a specific appearance set for them. To say that it was the closest because of the unit's ugliness, is a bit vague, really.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 09, 2011 09:12 AM |
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Well, point me to the text where Medusa is described with half-snake body. The Gorgons become "beautiful monsters" at one (pretty late) moment, but their originanl form is distinguishably hideous and humanoid.
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Lichking012
Known Hero
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posted January 09, 2011 09:16 AM |
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Quote:
LichKing, there's no such thing as a "Medusa, period." it's matter of interpretation. Here's what Wikipedia says, citing a book:
In the basis of the entire Might and magic universe, they look like medusa's she is the common image of a medusa in popular culture. From a logical standpoint she SHOULD be a medusa. Creativity is cool and all, but renaming an existing creature that has been in the series consostantly for no reason isn't creative.
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So why can't Black Hole say their female Naga has a snake-hair?
They CAN its just doesn't make sense.
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Calling it something else is stupid?
Well if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it should be a duck.
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Blazing Glory on the plains, there's too much importance given to terrain. Not to mention that at first many of us thought the Orcs are in the jungle because of their appearances, the Centaur used to be on different terrains in older games etc, it's not that much of an issue really.
sorry ignored this before. But something like orcs, centaurs and even the glory don't really need a set terrain a Radiant glory doesn't scream any particular terrain. But SNOW maiden or SHARK warrior don't scream jungle. They blatantly scream ice and ocean.
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she's not evil like the "original" Medusa is, but she looks peaceful compared to the MALE Naga,
I wouldn't say she looks peaceful, but i agree she doesn't look outwardly menacing.
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HOMM V Dungeon. I sort of liked the new units, but mixing them with Minotaurs, Black Dragons, and Hydra... as well as naming their heroes Warlocks despite the dominance of the matriarchy, was sort of a slap to my face.
well 1, that was hardly a new image for any of those creature. The problem with HV dungeon is that it wasn't a new faction it was half H3 dungeon with some units replaced. This is a new atmosphere new to heroes.
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I don't get it. If it's fundamentally a Medusa, why is it not called a Medusa (right now)? And why is the faction Naga? This Coral Maiden look is Ubisoft's creative team's conception of what the Naga female units will look like in the Ashan universe. Medusas for all we know do not exist in this universe because the female nagas have already taken their spot.
Which is a disappointment. See the duck statement.
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It's not definitive for a Medusa to have a snake-like body and as far as I know, neither every woman with a snake lower body is automatically a Naga
well no if the hair was normal, I would buy that it's a stereotypical naga caster unit. Its the hair AND the snake body that is definitive.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted January 09, 2011 09:23 AM |
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is the line-up official?
apart from anything else, the concept art doesn't look like it was the same artist who did it all the other stuff. the background is different, for one thing, and some of the designs aren't fitting with the style of the rest of the factions art style.
If I'm wrong, then please say so, but maybe this was intended to be leaked, so the developers could provide a different line up in the game. or alternatively, this could only be preliminary artwork, and the final product could be different.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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