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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 96 97 98 99 100 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted January 09, 2011 09:32 AM
Edited by Danny at 09:33, 09 Jan 2011.

Quote:
In the basis of the entire Might and magic universe, they look like medusa's she is the common image of a medusa in popular culture. From a logical standpoint she SHOULD be a medusa. Creativity is cool and all, but renaming an existing creature that has been in the series consostantly for no reason isn't creative.


But there's no "entire M&M universe" anymore, there's H5 and 6, which didn't have Nagas or Medusae so far. Not to mention that giving the Centaur a different alignment from H2 through H4 already proves they don't really care about such logic.

Quote:
Well if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it should be a duck.


Very different, as I pointed it out earlier, H3 had both a Medusa and a Naga with a similar look and they were treated differently, only because one of them had snake hair and could petrify? And pointless to compare them to real-life animals.

Quote:
sorry ignored this before. But something like orcs, centaurs and even the glory don't really need a set terrain a Radiant glory doesn't scream any particular terrain. But SNOW maiden or SHARK warrior don't scream jungle. They blatantly scream ice and ocean


The Harpy does scream rainforest in fact though, you can argue such colorful feathers don't fit autumn plains at all (where the enemy can spot them instantly, as opposed to a jungle with colorful flowers)! Shark warriors don't scream anything as long as they are not in the desert. We don't know anything about Snow Maiden, she might be a magical creature that does not melt in tropical climate. The rest of the lineup wouldn't fit the snow terrain at the same time, you could say the River Spirit should be freezing.

Quote:
well no if the hair was normal, I would buy that it's a stereotypical naga caster unit. Its the hair AND the snake body that is definitive.


That's being arbitrary, they just wanted to make the hair interesting, or to let everyone know not to wish for Medusae in H6 because they are female Nagas in Ashan. Also, you ignored the Marilith comment, if you search for that in google, you'll get images that you'd call "stereotypical naga". And no, the snake body is not definitive for Medusa, as already posted, including the H4 mention, they have legs in that game.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 09, 2011 09:39 AM

Quote:
Well, point me to the text where Medusa is described with half-snake body. The Gorgons become "beautiful monsters" at one (pretty late) moment, but their originanl form is distinguishably hideous and humanoid.


There's not such a description. I'm just saying that just because H4's Medusa was ugly, it's closer to the archetype appearance of her, is vague.

I mean, how many of you knew that Medusa very oftenly were depicted with wings too?

Probably the lower half snake body was a mixing with another famous female monstrous humanoid, the Lamia. That she appears to be beautiful could derive from the Lamia's legends too.


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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 09, 2011 09:50 AM

So, the cat is out of the bag for good it seems.

I think some of you guys (and gals) are being a bit hard on them. I mean, take the Shark Warrior - how many of us had seen *that* one coming!? At least give them some credit for creativity here (even if it's right out of Pirates Of The Caribean). Same goes for the Kappa - gotta admit I find that to be pretty well conceived for such an odd unit.

Wave Warriors are pure win for me. The artwork is a-m-a-z-i-n-g - colours and style blend so beautifully. The Coral Maiden might be a bit on the generic side, but on the other hand, I don't think it's a crime to go with the obvious sometimes. It looks pretty good also. I don't think Medusa would be appropriate, Medusa is linked with something/someone evil and beastly, that's not the theme they aim for here.

However, I'm totally with you on the River Spirit and Snow Maiden thing. I can accept the Snow Maiden, it looks decent, and if they have some sort of lore or theme to require this, I will give them that liberty in designing the game, even if it's not my favorite choice (as it was, I would rather cut the Glory from Haven, which I think is absolutely misplaced). But two of these units in one faction is too much, and the River Spirit looks plain boring.

Finally, how can anybody *not* love the Kirin? I think it's one of the most beautiful creature artworks I've yet seen, and I hope it'll look just remotely as fluid and graceful in game. The colours are stunning also.


Overall, I think they did an overall pretty good job, and the faction looks coherent. I would like the River Maiden to go, however, possibly she could occur as a related neutral. Instead, I think another none-humanoid would be nice - I could say Basilisk, just to start somewhere.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 09, 2011 09:50 AM

All these monsters have common roots, which is not native particularly to Greece, so if we start arguing about this, the day will be lost. The snake part of the body is an Echidna attribute and not Medusa's. Yes, it's not absolutely precise to say that, but it's far more precise than the "modern Medusa" whose lower body is snake.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 09, 2011 09:56 AM

Quote:
All these monsters have common roots, which is not native particularly to Greece, so if we start arguing about this, the day will be lost. The snake part of the body is an Echidna attribute and not Medusa's. Yes, it's not absolutely precise to say that, but it's far more precise than the "modern Medusa" whose lower body is snake.


Well, either Echidna or Lamia. It's just that Lamia was beautiful as well, or could appear as being beautiful while in truth, she was ugly.

Well, when you put it like this, you're right. H4 though not very accurate either, it's closer to the legend. Actually, I would not call any version monster accurate if at first, they would not drop the name Medusa, and give it the proper one: Gorgon.

But on another topic... Oh how would I love to see Echidna and Lamia in HoMM!!!
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Meundmein
Meundmein


Adventuring Hero
Tricky, tricky Death...
posted January 09, 2011 09:58 AM
Edited by Meundmein at 10:09, 09 Jan 2011.

OMG, OMG OMG!!!!!!
tHE kIRIN ROCKS!!!
Oh, god, thank you they are beautiful!
It's goingto be my favourite faction, the better substitute to Academy that has ever been!! The snow maiden also fills in the spot of the ice reltated, clash-of-heroes-like djinn that I had in mind!
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Xevronixussor
Xevronixussor

Tavern Dweller
posted January 09, 2011 10:07 AM

Not wanting to go into details on the new units, just very shortly

- My primary interet in HOMM has always been the interesting menagerie of monsters and fantastic creatures, and how they mix up creatures of different mythologies to create coherent lineups. In this respect, I'm with Elvin saying that an opportunity to introduce cool monsters was somewhat waisted with the new faction.

- On the other hand, the promise of a brand new faction has been definitely delivered.

- Are you sure that there are actually terrain types associated with factions? Everyone is talking about the 5th faction being related to the jungle terrain, but frankly a system of faction/terrain relation doesnt seem such a crucial gameplay element to me.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 09, 2011 10:22 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 10:23, 09 Jan 2011.

Quote:
- Are you sure that there are actually terrain types associated with factions? Everyone is talking about the 5th faction being related to the jungle terrain, but frankly a system of faction/terrain relation doesnt seem such a crucial gameplay element to me.

Sadly, as Danny said, it was confirmed that each faction was affiliated to a terrain  : Haven = plains / Necropolis = wastelands / Inferno = lava / Stronghold = autumn plains / 5th = jungle. They announced 2 neutral terrains : water and underground. They also added snow (which we saw in the Video Games Live video.

Though I agree with you and I'd hope that at one point Heroes games get rid of the favored terrain as a tactical part in battles. I've always hated terrain giving more movement, more attack/defense to units from X faction and well, it's a pain to balance. Without counting that most maps are always full of plains and thus favoring Haven/Sylvan

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evinin
evinin


Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
posted January 09, 2011 10:22 AM

Well, I'm really impressed. The fifth faction looks awesome and all the creatures are new and interesting (I don't like the first two core units but that doesn't matter). The female creatures are cool and they are not that much of and not that alike. The male elite creature is purely awesome and the champion Kirin is just beautiful, interesting and a dragon-like thing.
Anyway, I'm also kind of sorry that the information leaked that way. Sure, I'm happy to know the faction but like this it lost some of the magic.
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 09, 2011 10:27 AM

Quote:
Quote:
- Are you sure that there are actually terrain types associated with factions? Everyone is talking about the 5th faction being related to the jungle terrain, but frankly a system of faction/terrain relation doesnt seem such a crucial gameplay element to me.

Sadly, as Danny said, it was confirmed that each faction was affiliated to a terrain  : Haven = plains / Necropolis = wastelands / Inferno = lava / Stronghold = autumn plains / 5th = jungle. They announced 2 neutral terrains : water and underground. They also added snow (which we saw in the Video Games Live video.

Though I agree with you and I'd hope that at one point Heroes games get rid of the favored terrain as a tactical part in battles. I've always hated terrain giving more movement, more attack/defense to units from X faction and well, it's a pain to balance. Without counting that most maps are always full of plains and thus favoring Haven/Sylvan


Actually it makes sense to me and I like it, I hope they won't get rid of it. It might not be very crucial to the gameplay but it adds more to it and gives each faction a little bit more variety.

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mancubus
mancubus


Adventuring Hero
posted January 09, 2011 11:00 AM

Pretty nice work overall imo, thank you. Especially Wave Warrior and Kirin look badass!

Alcibiades's opinion was spot on, I also agree completely with his criticism:

Quote:


However, I'm totally with you on the River Spirit and Snow Maiden thing. I can accept the Snow Maiden, it looks decent, and if they have some sort of lore or theme to require this, I will give them that liberty in designing the game, even if it's not my favorite choice (as it was, I would rather cut the Glory from Haven, which I think is absolutely misplaced). But two of these units in one faction is too much, and the River Spirit looks plain boring.




Radiant Glory should go, really. River Spirit should imo be replaced by some non-humanoid creature.

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Sherekhaan
Sherekhaan


Adventuring Hero
posted January 09, 2011 11:17 AM
Edited by Sherekhaan at 11:18, 09 Jan 2011.

The shark warrior is meh, but I can live with it. Why not a crab or lobster creature instead of the spirits? Or maybe a mollusc? Anything except another radiant gloy wannabe...

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 09, 2011 11:22 AM

Quote:
Lol, from famous "naga faction" best units are not nagas but Kirin and Kappa I hope some names will be changed - too much warriors and maidens.


It can hardly be called a "Naga Faction" with only one Naga in the line-up. My opinion is, it could do with a couple more Nagas. I'm more kin to be calling it "Water-based faction" actually.

Well, anyway, I don't mind so much about it. I like it alot!

The upgraded Kirin, IMHO, is the best design to ever grace the entire HoMM saga. All the rest are also great, top quality and all.

If any criticism needs be done, is how the Snow Maiden ends up in a tropical jungle terrain? We know for a fact that the snow terrain is a last minute's addition, neutral terrain and in all probability, the 5th faction will be based in jungle. Snow Maiden kinda doesn't fit in, does she?


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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted January 09, 2011 11:32 AM

Quote:
It can hardly be called a "Naga Faction" with only one Naga in the line-up. My opinion is, it could do with a couple more Nagas. I'm more kin to be calling it "Water-based faction" actually.


At the same time so many people are wishing the Orc faction to have LESS Orcs.

Pretty sure the Coral Maiden and the Tide Warrior are as Naga as they can be, but maybe they will call the Snow Maiden another version of Naga. We have to wait for the official unit descriptions.

Quote:
If any criticism needs be done, is how the Snow Maiden ends up in a tropical jungle terrain? We know for a fact that the snow terrain is a last minute's addition, neutral terrain and in all probability, the 5th faction will be based in jungle. Snow Maiden kinda doesn't fit in, does she?


Said it before that snow and ice is water too, this way they are covering all "variations" of water corresponding with the water dragon-goddess, instead of just being a sea-faction. Also, on the Russian forum someone pointed out that "Cloudwalker Kirin" might refer to clouds being the "gas-state of matter" of water...

That said, I checked the Video Games Concert thing with the snow footage again and the hero portrait does resemble the Snow Maiden a bit with its blue face, so maybe they are magically altered nagas that lost their tails?

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 09, 2011 11:42 AM

Well if you take into account how different the Orcish females were compared to men (H5's Shamans and Warriors), you might be right on that one, that Coral Maidens are Nagas. We'll just wait and see.

I know snow and ice is related to water and that's how it fits in, but it's still in a tropical and warm terrain. It doesn't have to be that all children of Shalassa should be gathered in one faction, despite their variations and differences. They could surely come up with something else there. But anyway, since the snow maiden looks so damned awesome, and I always wanted to have a Yuki no Onna too, I forgive them.
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted January 09, 2011 11:48 AM
Edited by Dave_Jame at 11:50, 09 Jan 2011.

Just to post my opinions

Kappa - It looks oddbut nice, we will have to wait for the proper artworks and in game material

The Shark- Like the idea, But cant realy see a shark in it. I dont even see a back Fin on them. I ost need to se the proper artwokr of this, and the ingame model

Pearl maiden Not liking it. The Idea is good, but I would prefer more asian style details.

Spring spirit I agree with most of you people, It's to simular to the Ice maiden and to Glory, One of these must go

Tide warrior I have a mixed feeling about them, the look good, almoste the best lookin unit in this faction but I just loved Ledroits Naga artworks a would love to see them look morelike that, Also giving them a more Asian name would Hale (yes I mean Samurai etc.)

Snow Maiden Or as for me the "Snow white" Realy miss the naga preistes, but it would by to much like Pearl maiden. But now it's to much like Spring spirit.. To many simular units.. It needs some diversity

Kirin The generic "chinese dragon" whos lore I need to properly study to judge it. But it  looks realy good and when wee will have the proper artworks I think it will look Awesom.


In general
I miss the feeling of the faction Olivier Ledroit sugested. And I lack they lac the aura of a realy dangerouse and might faction in compare t the other 4.

We will have to see whot does the future have in stock for us in there mather

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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted January 09, 2011 12:10 PM
Edited by SkrentyzMienty at 12:17, 09 Jan 2011.

I LOVE THIS FACTION!

I absolutely am amazed by all of the units.

Shark Captain/Shark Warrior - very unique, suits the faction well, great design, though IMO they could have had bigger heads but it's OK.
Kappa/Kappa Shoya - This is definately something innovative for HOMM at least, and appears to have potential for unique attacks and abilities, maybe it's a flyer because of being able to jump long distances?
Coral Maiden/Pearl Maiden - YES! Finally the beautiful yet destructive Nagas are given back the place they deserve, and in a H3 form, not the H4. This was one of my biggest fears of H6 that it won't have Medusas. Their staff suggests an ability to cast spells, which IMHO is a good change for Medusa, because even the great design of H3 seemed a bid boring as for her weapon, Medusa has many attacks/abilities to exploit, and anyone could just fire arrows from a bow I would prefer if they were simply called Medusa, but have totally no issue with Coral Maiden.
Spring Spirit/River Spirit - Beautiful and very interesting, looks to me as a good Banshee counterpart somewhat. They appear to be casters, a bit like a Priestess or Radiant Glory of the Aquatic Faction. The only thing I'd change is the upgraded version and the unupgraded one; IMO the unupgraded purple one with more distinct markings looks better than the River Spirit, and even the name better suits an upgrade. Also, it's a bit too similar physically to the Snow Maiden IMO, but I of course love both of those ladies already
Snow Maiden/Ice Maiden - GREAT! I love the japanese style design with the clothes, hair, fans etc. I simply cannot wait to find out about her abilities and attacks etc. However, again, a bit too similar to the Spring Spirit. And the same comment about upgrade, I think the unupgraded version is BY FAR superior in looks than the upgraded one; distinct features and colours, and a generally sophisticated appearance, whereas the upgraded one looks boring with only one colour tone, I'd swap them around. Also appearing to be the same tier as Spring Spirit/River Spirit further adds to their over-alikeness
Wave Warrior/Tide Warrior - The HOMM version of Myrmidon which I always wanted. Great design, but IMO he could have had 6 arms instead. I cannot wait to see that faction in-game.
Kirin/Cloudwalker Kirin - Magnifiscent! This is the Chinese-themed Dragon HOMM needed! It's design is absolutely awesome! Enough said.


I'm absolutely amazed by this faction already. The ONLY thing I'd change in the lineup, would be dismissing the Spring Spirit/River Spirit (too similar to Ice Maiden) and replace them with Sea Serpent/Coatl, which is IMO more interesting and would give this faction an increase to the poor amount of flyers.

Overall

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 09, 2011 12:22 PM

Kirin is not a dragon! Kirin is as much of a Dragon as a Hydra is, for example. It has Draconic features to be sure but only superficially so. Kirin is pretty much the Chinese equivalent of a Unicorn, albeit much, much stronger.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 09, 2011 12:22 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 12:27, 09 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Because then everyone would complain that it should be a BEACH faction.

I'm already complaining that it is a beach faction, stupid water line-up
(hahaha can't help for I'm feeling sorry for myself)

Quote:
*points at H5*

I thought we were promised no über-dragons.

Dragons are hardly lizards in that sense, a wingless asian-styled dragon is in my opinion very good.
But your idea of a champion was infact a lot better. Have to give you that.

In this line-up however Kirin, Wave Warrior and Kappa are the best.(have to praise them for something, don't I?
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SkrentyzMienty
SkrentyzMienty


Famous Hero
posted January 09, 2011 12:26 PM

Quote:
Kirin is not a dragon! Kirin is as much of a Dragon as a Hydra is, for example. It has Draconic features to be sure but only superficially so. Kirin is pretty much the Chinese equivalent of a Unicorn, albeit much, much stronger.


Erm, Draconic features is what I meant, no need to shout. Still, Hydra IS distantly related to Dragons. But anyways, you cannot say that Kirin (one in artwork, whatever the mythology behind it) doesn't resemble the typical Chinese Dragon (which is great). But whatever, I meant it was Dragon-like, no racial offense towards Kirin intended lol.

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