|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
posted November 09, 2012 02:40 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And where is the difference to christians and the bible here?
Dang man, the thread's about extremist Muslims. In answer to your flame-thrower-question; on my worst days you will never find me in your country blowing places up.
Their is a big difference between these bombers and the rest of mankind in all of its flavors, including the majority of the followers of Islam.
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 02:48 PM |
|
|
Nope, the thread is about muslims and Islam in general which of course includes extremists and anything that is relevant to the discussion.
____________
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 05:05 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
And where is the difference to christians and the bible here?
Dang man, the thread's about extremist Muslims. In answer to your flame-thrower-question; on my worst days you will never find me in your country blowing places up.
Their is a big difference between these bombers and the rest of mankind in all of its flavors, including the majority of the followers of Islam.
Maybe you didn't get me right sir, but I was JUST refering to the 2 lines I quoted, not to the muslims in general.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 06:14 PM |
|
|
I think that's the fifth time the Christan faith has been targeted in this thread... may I remind members here that this thread is not about Christianity?
@Gunfred: Wait, the Democrats in your country are the racist ones? Well that's a culture shift... And the whole statistic that "Muslims will out breed us" made me laugh the first time I read it, and still does to this day. I'm honestly not any good at math, but the way they calculated the number did not show the indigenous population growing at a realistic rate and it assumed that Muslims would basically be creating babies non-stop until they were 60.  I agree that the more extreme Muslims will be breed out over time (it's a pattern that worked here in the US, so case-by-case evidence can be easily found) as long as they aren't treated as outcasts or second rate citizens.
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 06:43 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I think that's the fifth time the Christan faith has been targeted in this thread... may I remind members here that this thread is not about Christianity?
@Gunfred: Wait, the Democrats in your country are the racist ones? Well that's a culture shift... And the whole statistic that "Muslims will out breed us" made me laugh the first time I read it, and still does to this day. I'm honestly not any good at math, but the way they calculated the number did not show the indigenous population growing at a realistic rate and it assumed that Muslims would basically be creating babies non-stop until they were 60. I agree that the more extreme Muslims will be breed out over time (it's a pattern that worked here in the US, so case-by-case evidence can be easily found) as long as they aren't treated as outcasts or second rate citizens.
I agree with everything you said and we got several Democrats in Sweden. Three political block with one Democrat in each.
Swedish parties.
The Redgreen(left block):
Swedish Social Democratic Party(largest party)
Left Party(When not even this party is communist, the though of Obama being a communist is plain dumb.)
Green Party
The Alliance(right block):
Moderate Party(second largest and ruling party)
Liberal People's Party(Yup, our liberals are rightwing.)
Centre Party(might not get enough votes next election)
Christian Democrats(Somehow these guys are still around but probably have no chance of survival next election. They are not nearly as religious as the american Democrats.
Sweden Democrats(forever alone):
Everybody who does not vote for these guys hates them. No other party would dare to ally with them because it would be political suicide. If you ask me, this party is the largest stain in swedish modern history and I think the other nordic countries got an equivalent of them.
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 06:44 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 18:46, 09 Nov 2012.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And where is the difference to christians and the bible here?
Dang man, the thread's about extremist Muslims. In answer to your flame-thrower-question; on my worst days you will never find me in your country blowing places up.
Their is a big difference between these bombers and the rest of mankind in all of its flavors, including the majority of the followers of Islam.
Maybe you didn't get me right sir, but I was JUST refering to the 2 lines I quoted, not to the muslims in general.
Actually there are theological differences. Christians don't (or are not obligated to) believe that their holy book is the direct word of god sentence by sentence. But that is hardly the issue, most people aren't religious because they read the books and are convinced by them. They are simply born into them, it's cultural. Christian or muslim, your average joe doesnt want to convert anyone or doesnt seek world domination. He just minds his own business. That isn't to say of course Islam has no issues adjusting to modernity, it does both because of theological and historical reasons. But saying every muslim who's a true believer would chop your head off if he head the chance to is pushing it.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 07:34 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Christian Democrats(Somehow these guys are still around but probably have no chance of survival next election. They are not nearly as religious as the american Democrats.
Somewhere in Sweden, there is a religious minority, keeping this party afloat. Just like Norway has KRF.
Quote:
Sweden Democrats(forever alone):
With such stains on Sweden such as Rosengård and Malmø, what is wrong with a reaction?
____________
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 08:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
If you're gonna argue about it, at least stop generalizing so much. Call the crazies Islamic Fanatics or something. Not muslims, muslims are an entire effing people for god's sake.
aren't they actually the largest population on earth? that would be a hell of a lot of fanatics 
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 08:19 PM |
|
|
Malmö is too close to Denmark which is infamous among the nordic countries for racism(especially against arabs/muslims).
____________
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 08:21 PM |
|
|
Quote:
aren't they actually the largest population on earth? that would be a hell of a lot of fanatics
Second large, largest is Christianity America + South America + Europe + Russia is mostly christian:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_demographics
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 09:15 PM |
|
|
Tell me how to keep objectivity when 9/10 of criminal actions are muslim. No one is born racist, but the way to become one is sometimes more complex than only race based. Statistics.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 10:13 PM |
|
Edited by GunFred at 22:14, 09 Nov 2012.
|
Quote:
Tell me how to keep objectivity when 9/10 of criminal actions are muslim. No one is born racist, but the way to become one is sometimes more complex than only race based. Statistics.
That is just not true unless you live in a muslim country. It is true that muslims and other unwanted immigrants have higher crime rates than european natives. But racists do not realize what really causes immigrants and minorities to commit crime because they do not really care. They just want a common enemy to use as scapegoat for their world's problems. What really causes immigrants and minorities to commit crimes are poverty, hostile majority, cultural isolation, criminal environment and plain bad parenting. It is social conditions, not the people or ideologies of their homeland. Most immigrants wether they be muslim or something else usually just wants better and safer lives but unless we help them they are unlikely to adopt properly in short time. And the religious muslims rarely contribute to crimes against non-muslims. The common immigrant criminals are youths who end up in gangs thanks to poor living conditions like those mentioned above.
I really recommend the movie "This is England" and watching it adds wisdom and insight on modern racism.
YouTube trailer
YouTube full movie
I can not promise that the movie is entertaining but it is one of those movies that really moves you and makes you wiser.
____________
|
|
Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 10:28 PM |
|
|
Gunfred 
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 10:57 PM |
|
|
You should make politics. As usual, the common denial "this is not true", "they are powerless therefore it can be explained", "the racists do not care" etc etc.
I invite you to a trip to a fresh muslim country, France. Not that they are more than french (not yet, but on way to), but when you cry louder then others, you alone will be heard.
The political correct is fading every day here. More and more newspapers now bold criminals names on front page. Saying that government is not doing anything is pure BS, I recall you that its me and others who pay every day heavier taxes so they can get their smartphone or ipad. How can you say nobody cares when north-africa immigrants have access for free to absolute health care, receive huge financial aids for every new born, and actually benefits from positive discrimination ie there are quotas for universities or other important jobs.
But is not enough for them, it is easier to throw the racism concept than actually take a chance and realize your life by your own.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 11:05 PM |
|
|
Just a note: I am an immigrant myself, so I am not looking at the problem from the perspective "oh my goodness, they're invading my country, send them all back".
I am looking at them from my own journey viewpoint, where I had to start from nothing and realize all by my own. Without whining, asking for help or hurt anyone.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 11:08 PM |
|
Edited by xerox at 23:09, 09 Nov 2012.
|
I don´t agree with Gunfreds view of the Swedish parties at all (there are no "red-greens" anymore, in fact, the MP might just be in a blue-green government after 2014). Your view on the SD is extremly exaggerated. Even as a true liberal (btw, why should the liberal party be leftists lol? there is only one left party left in sweden for a reason) I fully understand those that vote on the SD. A party which is in NO WAY more "racist" than your average european party, its just that the political climate in sweden is incredibly politically correct.
Sweden is not adapted to having tens of thousands third world country immigrants and there is genuine worry among people that the Sweden is well, losing its swedesness. While nationalism is one of the most stupid ideologies of all time, every country needs to have some kind of unity, a national identity to which people from all backgrounds can associate with. The other alternative is segregation which will lead to a structural problem of real racism.
I´m a liberal so in my utopia, there are no borders. But that ideological utopia comes in a complete package. The current state of swedish society won´t work with such a liberal approach to immigration. For it to work we need to move away from the wellfare state, stop basing integration policies around handing out tax money to immigrants (in recent years, some good steps have been taken however) and work towards a new Swedish identity (the US is a role model here) and citizenship of increased importance.
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 11:14 PM |
|
|
Quote:
You should make politics. As usual, the common denial "this is not true", "they are powerless therefore it can be explained", "the racists do not care" etc etc.
I invite you to a trip to a fresh muslim country, France. Not that they are more than french (not yet, but on way to), but when you cry louder then others, you alone will be heard.
The political correct is fading every day here. More and more newspapers now bold criminals names on front page. Saying that government is not doing anything is pure BS, I recall you that its me and others who pay every day heavier taxes so they can get their smartphone or ipad. How can you say nobody cares when north-africa immigrants have access for free to absolute health care, receive huge financial aids for every new born, and actually benefits from positive discrimination ie there are quotas for universities or other important jobs.
But is not enough for them, it is easier to throw the racism concept than actually take a chance and realize your life by your own.
Just maybe old colonial empires like UK and France should have thought about future immigration before dividing the world map between them.
Joking aside, if there really are that many immigrants who leech off the system then maybe it is to late to naturally adapt. They are already a part of the country and unable to change. Then maybe the only way to fix the situation could be something like artificially creating new jobs so that everybody gets a chance to contribute to society.
____________
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 11:17 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 23:22, 09 Nov 2012.
|
@artu
Quote:
But saying every muslim who's a true believer would chop your head off if he head the chance to is pushing it.
Well, they would do that. I knew some people back in the past who would do that.
@Gunfred
Quote:
The rise of racism in Europe worries me many times more than the rise of Islam.
Islam is nazi ideology incorporated into a religion. They believe themselbes to be the only worthy of respect and claim the right to kill infidels. There is no exception.
You people should look into what those hadiths say. You would be surprized how many times they order to kill people.
Quote:
Just an hour or so ago I read that 9% out of 1003 people would vote for the Swedish Democrats today making them the third largest party in Sweden. And that is damn scary in the possibly most tolerant, foreign friendly country in the world. I was a little relieved when I read that only 1003 people were asked since the percentage can vary a lot but still...
If you are not muslim, you dont have to worry about this. Its they who should worry.
Quote:
Sure, Islam is super bad but it has never been a threat because non-religious and christians in europe are pretty much impossible to convert to Islam.
Escept the mindless masses of people who threaten everybody with death in case their holy dude is made fun of.
Quote:
And muslims are certainly not going to outbreed the european natives...
Actually, I dont care about that as I dont live in the so called "Affected" states.
Quote:
The real threat are the very people who fight Islam at a political level. They corrupt the population with messages and lies of fear and hate.
Islam is a religion of submission. Actually, every religion requires submission, at least christianity, islam and hinduism.
The special thing about islam is that it can be interpreted literally and is under the "Effect" of islamic "Scholars".
Im short, they are insane. See below why.
Do you expect some muslim women or men to put their "Leaders" down when he is "Chosen" by god to do the right thing?
@Angelito
Quote:
And where is the difference to christians and the bible here?
I love to answer this:
here is what muslims believe in :
Quote:
Muslims believe that the verses of the Qur'an were revealed to Muhammad by God through the archangel Gabriel
-Wiki
This is what it means:
Muslims believe that the fables and stories in a book(Quran), interpreted by a drugged 5th century peasant, who is mentioned in other fables by name(Hadiths), witnessed a hallucination of an angel who told him about god.
How in the snowing planet could one claim to be sane to believe in this type of snow?
Here is how western society solves the problem with intolerant bigots:
|
|
gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 11:22 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Here is how western society solves the problem with intolerant bigots:
Yes Seraphim. It is.
I give up, it's like I'm in speech class talking to the wall all over again...
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2012 11:26 PM |
|
Edited by xerox at 23:27, 09 Nov 2012.
|
|
Seraphim, you greatly exagerrate things. I meet muslim youth daily. They are hardly extremists, I´d say that most of them have choosen to become fairly secular. I will promise you that I will be among the first to rise up against political islam if the day should come when its supporters start trying to force shariah on me. We´re just not there yet, not by a large margin. While there are exceptions, most muslims are being successfully integrated to european values. A new branch of moderate Islam is rising in Europe.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
