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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted November 24, 2012 03:35 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 11:44, 30 Nov 2012.
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An 1 year old video.
The audience is what I would call as either being muslim itself or liberal idiots.
The guys supporting Islam are justp playing the "Moral" card. Its pure BS when I hear from them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnNnOSxVsaA
Koran commands muslims to wage war..
Muslim nutcase
Every HC member should watch it. The christian message is all ober the place but that is not my point.
Islam and Europe
I find these videos hilarious though. Islam is the fastet spreading religion of the world becazse its members spew children the most.
I dont think any sane individual would willingly switch to islam.
edit:
Peace in the Middle East
A rather factual video of why peace in the middle east will never be.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 03, 2012 07:06 PM |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 03, 2012 10:13 PM |
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Turkey is still in stone age unfortunatelly. The Fazil Say story is shocking:
READ
If we heard anything positive about Turkey in the last 10 years, excluding kebabs, is mostly due to Fazil Say, and now he is on trial.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 03, 2012 10:25 PM |
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Edited by artu at 06:06, 04 Dec 2012.
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Quote:
Turkey is still in stone age unfortunatelly. The Fazil Say story is shocking:
READ
If we heard anything positive about Turkey in the last 10 years, excluding kebabs, is mostly due to Fazil Say, and now he is on trial.
It's not as bad as it sounds from there. Those trials (the insult on religion stuff, not the Ergenekon Trials, i dont know if they make the international press) are usually about some kiss-ass bureaucrat sucking up to the government and nobody does actual time. Yet, yes they are disturbing on the level that they show these people's state of mind.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted December 04, 2012 01:43 AM |
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Turkey is really really odd. On one hand it has hypercapitalism on the lose, on the other hand its extremely religious from a ruling standpoint.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 04, 2012 01:49 AM |
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Turkey isn't that economically free. (Heritage isn't a perfect index, but it's the best one I know of.)
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 04, 2012 06:24 AM |
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Well, as I've written in this thread before, in Turkey it all changes according to the area you live in. The Aegean and Mediterranean coasts are much less conservative. In big cities like Istanbul and Ankara there are districts and neighborhoods you can easily feel like you're in an ordinary European town. The core of inner Anatolia is mostly conservative Muslim. Think of it like the difference between bible-belt Mid-West and New York. Still even those areas aren't as strictly muslim as their Arabic neighbors though because of two things: Turkey was a Balkan empire in the past, and even Anatolia's almost 30 percent were non-muslim peoples back in those days, so there is the tradition of living with non-muslim elements in the society. Since Arabic isn't anybody's mother tongue, the influence of Quran on everyday life isn't as direct as in Arabic nations. A translation is never as effective as the original and always more open to debate.
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 04, 2012 08:49 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 08:51, 04 Dec 2012.
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The last part is hardly true. The old Ottoman alphabet before the adoption of the new one following the Ataturk changes (20s of the XX century) was derived from Arabic. Additionally, the turkish peoples in this part of the world have a long history of relations with the Arabs and can't really be accused that they are "less islamic" than the Arabs themselves when it comes to who has the bigger balls religion-wise. Among other things since the beginning of XVI century the Ottoman sultan is the only one to bear the title of Caliph (Khalifah), i.e. successor (of Muhammad), essentially the highest possible title in the Islamic world - and this continues until the end of World War I. The Ottoman Empire was a multi-national empire, that's true, but the social arrangement there followed the "classical" structure of Muslims being superior to all non-Muslims and so on.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 04, 2012 09:43 AM |
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Quote:
The last part is hardly true. The old Ottoman alphabet before the adoption of the new one following the Ataturk changes (20s of the XX century) was derived from Arabic
1928 to be exact, language and alphabet are two different things you know, just because we are using the Latin alphabet at the moment doesn't mean we can speak and understand actual Latin. 
They are not less islamic, but their way of practicing islam is not as literal as the Arabic nations. It's mixed with Anatolian folklore.
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 04, 2012 09:55 AM |
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These reforms didn't happen overnight you know.  I was talking about Ataturk's general agenda anyway.
The alphabet is not the language but it certainly does help to associate yourself with a particular origin. And there's no "literal" interpretation of Islam - just as there's no "literal" interpretation of Christianity and the other religions. The Arabic is the language of the Quran and that's where the strictly orthodox part ends - the Muslims also have their sects, inner theological differences and regional factions. One might argue that the Shia Islam for example is a "mix" between Zoroastrianism of ancient Iran and the religion taught by the Arab Muhammad - but does that make it a "lesser" version compared to the Sunni Islam which itself is by no means pure and self-born?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 04, 2012 10:12 AM |
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Exacty, notice i was objecting to "less" part, not less just different. Islam in Turkey is a little more in adjustment with secularism compared to say Islam in Saudi Arabia. Local women usually just wear a head scarf for example not a chador that covers the face completly. Iran has its own historical progress too and before Humeyni it was also much more secular but they are not attached to Europe and Islamic revolution was much more likely to take place in there and it did.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 05, 2012 09:30 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:30, 05 Dec 2012.
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The thing is that you can't point one version or regional faction of Islam and say that it's more susceptible to extremism than another - except the sects that clearly define themselves as extreme. The radicalisation of an ideology does not depend on its historical heritage as much as it depends on the day-to-day issues of a particular area, country, region and so on. Why did the somewhat secular Iran suddenly become a modern-day theocracy? Or why this is happening with Egypt as well? Why Turkey - which was forcefully made as secular as it was possible by Ataturk and again forcefully kept that way for decades - now becomes more religious than ever since the fall of the Ottoman empire?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 05, 2012 10:22 AM |
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Edited by artu at 10:23, 05 Dec 2012.
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Quote:
The thing is that you can't point one version or regional faction of Islam and say that it's more susceptible to extremism than another - except the sects that clearly define themselves as extreme. The radicalisation of an ideology does not depend on its historical heritage as much as it depends on the day-to-day issues of a particular area, country, region and so on. Why did the somewhat secular Iran suddenly become a modern-day theocracy? Or why this is happening with Egypt as well? Why Turkey - which was forcefully made as secular as it was possible by Ataturk and again forcefully kept that way for decades - now becomes more religious than ever since the fall of the Ottoman empire?
First of all, Turkey is still a secular state and I don't see any possibility of it going under sharia law in the future. Getting more conservative on the other hand is another matter and it seems to be the world trend nowadays I personally link to the crisis of leftist ideology after the Cold War. Huntington was wrong about many things on his theory on clash of civilizations but he was right on one thing: People feel the need to hold onto some sort of ideology to stick together when they feel threatened by global capitalism and assimilation. Besides in Turkey the old regime was corrupt, a military coup in 1960, 1971, 1980 was all fine in the eyes of the west when Turkey was the border post of NATO against the Soviet Union. When that international situation changed, the military was no longer supported. When the support of USA ceased the military no longer could keep the real power to itself using Sharia and Islam as an instrument of fear against opposing political forces. During the first years of AKP (the now leading conservative party in power), everybody who had problems with status quo including liberals, leftists, some of the Kurds gave their circumstantial support to them. It is during these last years they are becoming more and more authoritarian, and you know what they say: Power corrupts. Still Turkey turning into an Islamic state is out of the question. First of all, when you look below the surface AKP is in business with global capitalism and to give that up is against its own benefits. Some hardcore Islamists call AKP even a sell out because of that.
On a more general level, I agree with you on going fundamental is not only about the sect of religion. Political agendas (internal and external) do play a role in it. Yet cultural heritage is also very important and a nation's cultural background is not only religion. The Ottoman Empire was not a sharia state too for example, it wasnt officialy secular but everyday life in cities was never something like, say everyday life in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. Every case must be studied singularly, it's usually misleading to generalize countries. Islam itself as a theological phenomenon is another matter though. But i already wrote my ideas about that on this thread so i wont repeat myself.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted December 05, 2012 11:34 PM |
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Quote:
... but the social arrangement there followed the "classical" structure of Muslims being superior to all non-Muslims and so on.
Mind you though, christian societies did the same to jews or pagans.
People in europe should not expect some liberals or critics to pop and criticize the conservative nuts. Why the hell should they risk alienation with their relatives, making new enemies and what not for the sake "Right" or for the sake of justice in religion or islam? They dont get a sanctuary where they are protected from danger for doing so.
I heard it many times in youtube and other forums where some arrogant european just go on to accuse "Liberal" muslims for not speaking up.
In that regard, europeans have the classical stance of "We dont give a snow if it does not affect us".
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 22, 2013 11:46 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 23:48, 22 May 2013.
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Two Muslim jihadists yelled "God is Great" as they hacked a soldier to death with machete today in London. They waited at the scene for the police to arrive. The police had to shoot both terrorists.
Clicky
Quote:
Two men wielding a machete and a cleaver hacked a man believed to be a soldier to death on a busy London street Wednesday while yelling "Allahu Akbar," in an attack that was caught on video and left the nation shocked and horrified.
The victim, who some reports said may have been a soldier, was killed at the scene, and the attackers waited at the scene until police arrived and shot both. One attacker, his hands soaked in blood and still holding a machete, delivered an angry jihadist screed as stunned passersby watched, the dead man lying on the street, in the southeast London neighborhood of Woolwich.
"We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying every day," he said in a video clip that was shown on the ITV website. "This British soldier is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
"I apologize that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same," the killer continued. "You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."
Witnesses said the attackers shouted "Allahu Akbar," Arabic for "God is Great," during the bloody rampage, according to the BBC.
Police said two attackers were shot by authorities and taken to separate London hospitals to be treated for their injuries. Live television images of the scene showed a trail of blood on the pavement, cordoned-off streets and crime scene investigators marking the scene as witnesses recounted the harrowing attack.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 23, 2013 12:19 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 13:44, 23 May 2013.
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That's about 5 or 10 minutes away from where I am living at the moment. Could hear a lot of police sirens today. What a bunch of ****wits. Good that they got shot. An innocent soldier and they hack him to death because apparently that is what they have to see in Baghdad every day. Or at least that is what the killer said when he was recorded. ****ing waste of space.
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make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 23, 2013 03:41 AM |
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Here, we have relatively civil problems with muslims as usual. A writer I truly admire got sentenced to a year of prison yesterday (though it will most likely return from the supreme court) for insulting the prophet:
Turkish Court Defends Prophet Against Yours Truly
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 23, 2013 08:56 AM |
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in the meantime, the EDL is trending worldwide.
Quote:
#EDL Official Twitter account. #WorkingClass movement who take to the streets against the spread of #islamism & #sharia #NoSurrender #GSTQ
Hooray, two lunatics who are also muslim hacked a person to death, SO LET'S UNDERTAKE ACTION AGAINST ALL MUSLIMS X__X
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 23, 2013 05:05 PM |
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Quote:
#WorkingClass movement
Now THAT is interesting. There are things that suggest that old class tensions have been replaced by antagonism related to ethnical and religious or cultural differences. Now that could get ugly because it is much easier to climb the socioeconomical ladder of society than changing the colour of your skin.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 23, 2013 05:14 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
#WorkingClass movement
Now THAT is interesting. There are things that suggest that old class tensions have been replaced by antagonism related to ethnical and religious or cultural differences. Now that could get ugly because it is much easier to climb the socioeconomical ladder of society than changing the colour of your skin.
The racial tension is among the working class and poor immigrants mostly anyway. A rich upper-class Arab prince with his yacht has no problem, he's banging Dutch models.
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This thread is pages long: 
