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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Empire III, Era update
Thread: Empire III, Era update This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
str0b3l
str0b3l

Tavern Dweller
posted January 13, 2013 07:39 PM

doenst work, i cant go anywhere with waterwalk
sry for the lvl 8th thing but i just changed the wog settings in the menu as i thought and started playing the map

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 13, 2013 07:42 PM

You can't go because the boat is blocking the way: summon that boat elsewhere. Scuttle boat is not available yet.

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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2013 03:26 PM

Something about Deathblow, but it feels like the skill doesn't give double dmg like it describes, but only about 1.5 or even less. How does it interact with Luck also?! I have known this since TEW IV but just wants to make it clear.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 14, 2013 04:05 PM

Yeah, looks like it enhances damage only a bit in wog. Hardcoded, I can't fix it.
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted January 14, 2013 04:10 PM
Edited by Warmonger at 16:22, 14 Jan 2013.

Just description of this ability in game is not precise. Death Blow does not double damage, but inreases damage bonus by 100%.

Quote:

Total damage = base damage * (1 + a + b + c...) * (1-q) *(1-r) * (1-s)

Base damage is damage displayed for every unit in its stats (e.g. 40-50 for a Black Dragon). For a stack of creatures it is calculated as such:
- If there are less then 10 creatures in a stack then a random integer is chosen in a damage range for each creature, and they are added up.
- If there are more than 10 creatures in a stack, 10 random integers are chosen in a damage range of the creature and added up. The result is multiplied by n/10, where n is the number of creatures in the stack, and rounded down.
The probabilities only hold true if the attacking stack contains at least 10 creatures


a, b, c,... are damage bonuses, q, r, s,... are damage reductions (both as decimal numbers).
Damage cannot be reduced to less than 1 and is rounded down.

Maximum Attack - Defense difference relevant for calculations is 60 (3 times the base damage).
Maximum Defense - Attack difference relevant for calculations is 28 (70% damage reduction).
Specialty in Armorer is additive with the base Armorer damage reduction (therefore has greater effect). However, Shield bonus isn't additive but is multiplied normally with Armorer bonus.
Example: Level 18 Tazar with Expert Armorer and 12 Defense (normal distribution with no artifacts) has a Chaos Hydra. Level 18 Gunnar with Expert Offense and 8 Attack (normal distribution with no artifacts) has a Black Dragon. How much damage will a Black Dragon do?

Black Dragon's base damage = 40-50
Damage bonuses: 0,3 (Expert Offense), 0,05 (Attack - Defense difference)
Damage reductions: 0,285 (Expert Armorer and specialty)
Total damage = (40-50) * (1 + 0,3 + 0,05) * (1 - 0,285) = (40-50) * 1,35 * 0,715 = 38-48
If the Hydras had Expert Shield damage would have been 27-33.



So you can see that damage bonuses (attack, offense, luck, detah blow, charge...) are additive, while reduction bonuses are multiplicative.
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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2013 04:26 PM

In order words, Reduce Def > Deathblow, by MILES!!! Not to mention Deathblow only has % to proc. I should have known this earlier, maybe Deathblow doesn't even deserve a slot of skill for me anymore.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 14, 2013 04:36 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 16:36, 14 Jan 2013.

Yes, reduce def is the first I take too, big difference against Torosar titans.
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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted January 18, 2013 03:48 AM

Play some more and I hope that there are some ways to stop the stack from producing clones (apply to every other maps also). I usually spread my clone producing stack into multiple small ones so that I can use clones to block paths and shooters, but later they become unnecessary and the entire screen is filled with blue. At that point I want only my main Arch Angels stack to produce clone for their Resurrection, but since they can't produce anymore due to being over-crowded I have to cast something like Fireball to clear clones, and they can even miss a lot sometime.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 18, 2013 03:53 AM

Well if you give clone ability to all your creatures, this is what will happen. Want the cake and the money for?

I only give clone to archangels. A way to stop cloning is to send the creature on the other side of the battlefield, there are a few hexes which will prevent clone creation, looks which ones are blocking.

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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted January 18, 2013 04:12 AM

Well actually only my Arch Angels have Clone, well Enchanters already have it in their base. I have already known the "moving them to the corner" way, but it can still be annoying sometime.

The main problem is I prefer using the Clone spell (well cloning a 300 AA stack can produce much more Resurrection power than casting Resurrection itself) and if the battle lasts long enough I can't cast it anymore (something like there are 20 creatures already on the battlefield). However I count and there aren't 20 creatures, try to kill my clones to test but they produce them more later anyway...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 18, 2013 04:36 AM

I know, this is a required tactic when playing with automatic clones. They addition to the stacks quantity, once we have 20, no more. After a bit of practice, I got used on how to split my creatures, where to move, how to kill early clones (moat, fire wall, fire ball) to avoid overload.
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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2013 10:37 AM
Edited by alisapa1211 at 10:47, 03 Feb 2013.

Already finished this map (or technically since the invader in the end just stuck/sit there without ending his turn, but I was face rolling pretty much everything in one turn anyway). Here are some of my comments about the map:

_ Brilliant. For whatever reasons I enjoy this map more than TEW 4 since you can upgrade your troops multiple ways, the choices and combinations of units are also wider than TEW IV where it is all about Arch Devil and Demons. Farming CBs is also not as essential as TEW IV, and is also easier/faster, it's kinda boring to have the same Slow + Forgetfulness (against Cyclops) + Hit Run and Armageddon to death. Oh and Clone + Praetorians give amazing Resurrection power compared to TEW IV when it takes lots of time to fully resurrect your army after each battle.

_ However Hoplites, Legionaries, Praetorians literally carry the game and it's possible to need any other units for several reasons:

. Light Calvary has extremely poor stats, no special ability compared to others (unlimited retaliation is not that needed, not to mention they drop like flies also). But since it's possible to complete the map without the need of them and you need something to farm CBs, they are fine (well give them No Retaliation ability to farm easier and it's perfect). The hidden quests and bonuses are also funnier IMO.

. Caenturions is like the inferior version of Hoplites. Sure their damage is a little higher, considering the fact that Hoplites' numbers almost triple them, it doesn't mean much. Hoplites also have No Range Penalty and Shoot Close right of the bat (better than No Melee Penalty by miles since you can shoot while being gap-closed anyway). If you sacrifice 2 weeks to upgrade Caenturions, by simply giving Hoplites Reduce Def and Deathblow the damage gap is even bigger. Another problem they suffer is by the time that you have fully upgraded Hoplites, Praetorions and Legionaries (Death Blow, Reduce Def, Block, Magic Immunity, Attack and Return, Clone, Prayer/Shield/Fire Shield, + Cast/Rebirth etc etc) you have already met Primutius and face roll everything with armies of Legionaries. Their mass spells are also unreliable. I think giving them Reduce Mana and Dispel on attack (get rid of Shield/Fire Shield/Air Shield) as base ability will help them fulfill their support role better without worrying about them being too strong and leave the damage part to Hoplites.

. Heavy Cavalries are actually really powerful, but also suffer the lack of upgrades problem if you try to finish the map asap (about the end of month 6). Whoever if a newbie play this map they will probably be much stronger with full upgrades compared to my game, so they are fine.

_ Expert Sorcery gives more bonus resources when you are higher level? My Maximus (lvl 70) gives a tons of bonus resources compared to my new secondary hero who also has Expert Sorcery. This makes it better to save some resources and only collect them when you have higher level.

_ I find a way to cheese the Valley of Endless Gems quest. Get 2 Heroes, one kill the Azure Dragon, get inside, take all the Gems, the second one stand outside and just walk right and left to reactivate the event, so you can collect all the Gems without fighting the Azure Dragons. It's not really needed though (reason above) because you only do this quest in later part of the game (when you have higher resource bonus) to complete the Arcane Tower bonus anyway, but it sure saves quite some time.

_ Barrels give random bonus? I save load a bit and the bonus is indeed different. In my game I get almost all Knowledge and Spell Power bonus (which aren't needed because of the Clone spell and Double Mana). Probably try again later to see the difference if I get all the Atk bonus, probably massive.

_ I love Forcefield, one of the most strategist and powerful spell if placed correctly. However in some battles it feels like I was cheesing or may be even cheating. I was able to cheese the 5000 Mithril quest with it. Get No Retaliation from the Arcane Tower, Attack and Return for you Legionaries, get one Hoplites to immune to Fear, use Force Field and cheeses until death. With being able to have 10000 bonus Legionaries I just face rolled every battles after that in only one turn.

_ I love how some heroes have their own abilities to upgrade troops which make them unique and useful in all part of the game.

_ Is being able to buy Heroes from the Tavern intended? I play the HD version so it's possible to get some very powerful Heroes here.

_ Camugus can upgrade Lizard Warrior and Gremlins to Hoplites?! Wow amazing. *Check and almost no town can produce Gremlins/Lizard Warrior...* Well played Salamandre. It's also weird when you can get Gelu (reason above) to upgrade Elves to Sharpshooters yet have no ways to upgrade them again to Hoplites.

_ Lack ways to farm Mithril, the moment I have picked up all Mithril and run out of them (possible if you want to give every stack Block + Full Magic Immunity and complete the Arcane Towers), all I can do is sitting duck and wait for the only Mithril mine to produce (Estates bonuses are kinda unreliable).

_ There isn't the TEW walkthrough in the Era version so I have to find it in the old WOG version (don't know how can I finish this map in high speed without this) so it's kinda outdated.

Still a very great and enjoyable map nevertheless. Btw do you plan to create any new maps or later versions of TEW? I'm looking forward to it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 03, 2013 10:48 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 11:21, 03 Feb 2013.

Quote:
For whatever reasons I enjoy this map more than TEW 4


Me too. Tew4 is a possible example why complex scripted maps are not necessarily better. Still it has some original ideas which could be borrowed by future mapmakers. The 252x252 size also makes it unique, both in qualities and flaws.

Quote:
_ Is being able to buy Heroes from the Tavern intended? I play the HD version so it's possible to get some very powerful Heroes here.


In last version for Era, all AI heroes are disabled from tavern. Maybe I forgot one, but for sure those having dimension door cannot be hired.

Quote:
_ Camugus can upgrade Lizard Warrior and Gremlins to Hoplites?! Wow amazing. *Check and almost no town can produce Gremlins/Lizard Warrior...* Well played Salamandre.


Gremlins/lizards dwellings are automatically build in all towers/fortresses between day 160-190 (check editor). You said you finished it fast, so you did not see it. Is a bonus for slower players.

Quote:
_ Lack ways to farm Mithril


Mystical gardens give mithril, you have a special key to show every week which of them give mithril. Still is based on chance, so sometimes they give only gems. There is always the quest for 5000 mithril, I always complete it.

Quote:
Already finished this map (or technically since the invader in the end just stuck/sit there without ending his turn,



Annoying, I would appreciate a save of that, never happened to me.

Quote:
_ I love Forcefield, one of the most strategist and powerful spell if placed correctly. However in some battles it feels like I was cheesing or may be even cheating. I was able to cheese the 5000 Mithril quest with it. Get No Retaliation from the Arcane Tower, Attack and Return for you Legionaries, get one Hoplites to immune to Fear, use Force Field and cheeses until death. With being able to have 10000 bonus Legionaries I just face rolled every battles after that in only one turn.


Force field is removed from some key battles, however the map is very doable if you play well, so this is a compliment. I don't like maps where the difficulty is pushed to extreme, thus having to reload multiple times/battle. The fact that you have this quest very early but have to wait several months to get the bonuses to be able to complete it is enough rewarding for me.

Quote:
Btw do you plan to create any new maps or later versions of TEW?


No, I am done with mapmaking, was fun but such maps take too long time.

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted February 03, 2013 11:09 AM

Quote:
Btw do you plan to create any new maps or later versions of TEW? I'm looking forward to it.

I think we(players) should give Sal some time to have a new inspiration,where the maps come from.
He is a human(did we forget it?) and want to spend his time doing something else.
Salamandre,I hope you have a blissful rest as long as you need it!
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 03, 2013 11:11 AM

Actually it is the opposite, I need to work and mapmaking takes me away from. But thanks for kind comments.
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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2013 12:19 PM
Edited by alisapa1211 at 12:22, 03 Feb 2013.

Quote:

Me too. Tew4 is a possible example why complex scripted maps are not necessarily better. Still it has some original ideas which could be borrowed by future mapmakers. The 252x252 size also makes it unique, both in qualities and flaws.

Well not necessarily because of the complex scripts. The reasons I have explained above, in TEW4 most of the skills set are already decided: Arch Devils need Reduce Def, Attack and Return, Fire Immunity, Immune 1-3, Summon Clone, Cast Implosion,... Demons need Haste, No Retal, Fly,.. and Efreets need Rebirth + Cast. Farming CBs are also quite boring in TEW4. Nevertheless TEW4 still has its strong point: the magic upgrade system. You can completely ignore Spell Power in TEW3 and still have massive resurrection power thanks to Clone +  Praetorians, and since you can get innate buffs (bless/prayer/haste,...) via the Statue so casting buffs becomes even less needed. However god I hate that Dispel spell, since spells are more valuable it also becomes even more broken. Bless? Dispel. Shield/Air Shield? Dispel. Weakness/Curse the enimies? Dispel. MAGIC IMMUNITY? Dispel. That spell is so retardedly powerful for a level 1 spell...
---------------------------------------
Quote:
No, I am done with mapmaking, was fun but such maps take too long time.

Well, it's really a pity then, now I don't know where to get reliable (knowledgable when it comes to scripts so maps aren't boring as Shadow od Death maps or filled with bugs) and good/balanced map makers that are still active like you. I am also so used to your style of map making already. But oh well, may time will tell whether if you would change your decisions or not. Again I am really appreciated all your works.

For the taking too much time part, even though I have pretty much no knowledge about ERM, feel me to let me do the testing works to save your time if you decide to make maps again some days.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 03, 2013 12:40 PM

Both tew3 and 4 give the sphere of permanence middle game, so your worries about dispel are gone. Btw, magic immunity can not be dispelled like antimagic.
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alisapa1211
alisapa1211


Famous Hero
posted February 03, 2013 12:52 PM

Quote:
Both tew3 and 4 give the sphere of permanence middle game, so your worries about dispel are gone. Btw, magic immunity can not be dispelled like antimagic.

Yes I konw, however I feel like I can only get Sphere of Permanence at late game, or maybe I have nearly finished the combo or have an extremely high number of demons already and by that point battles can be finished in one or two turns, so again it isn't that needed anymore compared to the first part of the game. And yeah I mean Anti Magic.

Also, full build Maximus TEW 3 vs full build Commodus TEW 4, who do you think will win?!

I pick Commodus for obvious result lulz. But since Maximus has Force Field maybe he has a chance?

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted February 03, 2013 12:55 PM

alisapa,I asked him the same question on page 3.
Might be interesting for you to read.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 03, 2013 01:02 PM

Something like this, I guess:


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