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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 21, 2013 01:41 AM |
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That's why I said as possible as I can. It's not black and white of course. What I mean is, I don't strategize my behavior like "I won't call her for 5 days, so she'll think I couldn't care less." Sincerity isn't necessarily direct tenderness or immediately sharing all your weaknesses and emotional secrets, it's sometimes just not acting up. As you say, it may fail sometimes but when it works, it really works and you have your peace of mind which is worth five relationships without it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 21, 2013 01:54 AM |
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The thread is started by a teenager, thus is impossible to say do this or that, because dating tactics/issues change a lot with time. A 18-25 years old women is not interested by same things as a 30-40 years old one.
(Well, from 45 and up, they will go out with anyone looking decent, and with anyone not even looking decent if he is 20 years younger  )
You have little to prove when you are a teenager, just being cool, but later your social position and your accomplishments become an organic part of the process and only being cool and spontaneous is not enough.
The game they are playing is a bit "show me what you did and I tell you who you are".
Yeah, I know it breaks the romantic dreams, but life is unfair the more you get into.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 21, 2013 01:55 AM |
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I disagree with what some of you said here.
Being nice, having 42 master degress and 12 Phds is nice and all, but when it comes to starting a realionship and making the right appeal, the most important thing is confidence.
Not as in "I own everything snow", thats bravado.
Confidence means being content with ones own issues, having a clear aim and so on.
Women like confident men. Even if you are poor and have apparantly no skills, you can still be confident.
Nobody wants somebody who as if he/she drinks 24/7 and is about to commit suicide any moment.
Wealth and personal skills come into play a long time after the relationship has started.
Humans are irrational beings. Being perfect in your eyes is not enough to impress somebody else.
And this comes from a guy who has never been in a relationship...
Dont take my word for it. It might be true that a man needs 43 Master degrees today to impress women, which if it is true, would make relationships a sad thing.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 21, 2013 02:02 AM |
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Exactly what I was saying: you need to be confident in your skills and have no inhibitions. Women have a 6th sense which detects insecurity faster than anyone. Now only an idiot would be 100% confident in himself and have zero inhibitions, and this is where I suggested that you may be forced to play a role and minimize all those little things.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 21, 2013 02:09 AM |
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Quote:
You have little to prove when you are a teenager, just being cool, but later your social position and your accomplishments become an organic part of the process and only being cool and spontaneous is not enough.
The game they are playing is a bit "show me what you did and I tell you who you are".
Success is always sexy and it's very unlikely that a doctor will go out with a truck driver, sure. But, I see that also as people from same social classes having more to share and relating to each other easier rather than pure success hunting. If you're not from rock-bottom, you'll have your chances. But I'd be lying if I tested this personally because I'm considered upper layer of upper middle-class by this country's standards and even in times I'm having money issues I am not seen "really poor."
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 02:10 AM |
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artu:
Quote:
And if you naively say "why, if it doesn't work out, simply go back to things as they were" I will come chasing after you with a shotgun.
No, I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say something different. Suppose you want the friendship to remain the same if she isn't interested in you, and you tell her that. If, despite that, the friendship changes because of something she intentionally does, that's bad. Now, if you expect her to start acting differently despite nothing having changed between the two of you, she's not good at approaching relationships rationally, and maybe you shouldn't want to ask her out in the first place. 
Sal:
That's far too adversarial of a view of relationships. If they actually worked that way (and a lot of them don't), there wouldn't be much of a reason to get involved in them. Fortunately, I can say both from personal experience and observation that it's often not like that. Not saying that there aren't women of the type you describe - I know there are plenty of them, and they may even make up the majority - but if you know how to look and how to start relationships, you don't have to put up with any of the borderline dishonest "popular" way of starting relationships.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 21, 2013 02:16 AM |
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Mvas, at your age just do it as you feel. Things will become a bit more complicated later, I am nearly 40 now and I experienced deep changes on the method. It was a piece of cake when I was 18 and didn't have to scratch my brain to succeed, now I have to pull out the ICMB's.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 21, 2013 02:21 AM |
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I agree. It's quite different till you're 25 or so. Social status becomes much more important in later years, unless you're talking about one night stands or short-term flings etc etc...
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 03:04 AM |
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artu said:
I support that if what you mean by feminism is fighting discrimination but if it's all that "they are not sexual objects" crap I'm so over that. There's nothing wrong with seeing someone ALSO as a sexual object if you're not reducing her into that.
we are reducing people to only one dimension of themselves all the time, and most of the time we see nothing wrong with it. in a way that also simplifies things and make them more predictable. it even seems that most relationships focus on only one or a very few dimensions of each of their participants.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 06:25 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 06:28, 21 Jul 2013.
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(off-topic)
artu said:
I agree. It's quite different till you're 25 or so. Social status becomes much more important in later years, unless you're talking about one night stands or short-term flings etc etc...
not for everybody, artu. i am one exception. i just came from a pig roast, and i was listening to a bunch of older people, more wealthy than most, and ALL they talked about was social status-related issues. they were all bragging about their accomplishments to one another, and putting down others(even in their own familys, ffs), because of their lack thereof. i heard one woman talking **** about her own daughter, because her daughter wanted to work in social services, even though "she got straight A's in the college of so-and-so". her daughter wanted to HELP people, and she was being ****ted on, by her OWN MOTHER, to her dicklick, upper-crusty friends. it made me want to walk over to her and punch her in the face, in front of her financially motivated, reward driven, morally bereft friends. then, grab her by her hair, and start screaming into her face that she was nothing, less than nothing, and her daughter was a better person than ANY of them would EVER be.
but, i just got away from them, and took a nap. i will never understand such people. we all die in the end, and our personal accomplishments mean nothing. it is just something for dense people to brag about, and i DESPISE it to the core, for all of it's short-sightedness, and elitism.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 06:36 AM |
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I don't know the woman, so this is only conjecture, but you may be misinterpreting her motivations. I wouldn't want my child to go into social work either, not because I think helping people is bad, but because I don't think it's a good job. It doesn't pay much, and you often have to interact with unpleasant people. If my child had good grades, I'd want them to go into something well-paying and pleasant (though what in particular would of course be up to them), not social work.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 21, 2013 07:10 AM |
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The guy who invented electricity helped people. The doctors working on cancer research help people. The economists creating algorithms help people. And so on, until you are on the lowest step, which is social work. If you have no diplomas or never graduated universities, probably that would be the only way to help people if you really wish to. But in that case, you will be little payed for anything you do, not only social work.
You have much anger cumulated and I see nothing good in that. Parents are responsible for their kids and are entitled to wish the best for them, they know that today only the stronger will survive. It is in our genes. Do you have a job? Do you have kids, wife? If yes, it should be obvious for you.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 21, 2013 12:49 PM |
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Fred, what we were talking about in specific was, women, WHEN PICKING MEN, tend to care more about these things when early twenties are gone. I'm not saying it becomes all about it, but it turns into an important aspect, if it hadn't already.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 02:06 PM |
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@ artu: yeah, i guess i did take that out of context. lol, i had just come from the human extinction discussion, and i guess i was on some sort of rampage. so i was kind of off the topic of discussion. but, i still feel that way.
i can understand a parent wanting the best for their child, to profit the most, to be as safe as they can. but that is a problem with parents, they are too focused on what THEY want from their children, and completely forget about what the child views as happiness.
take my mom, for example. she knew i was big on art growing up, and i had some sort of future in it. but she said, that artists are always trying to find someone to buy their artwork. she said artists don't get paid very much, most of them, anyway. she kept repeating this, when i was growing up.
so, what did i end up doing? putting my art talents aside, and just going out to get jobs. i had many jobs, and none of them ever satisfied me. indeed, when i had been fed up enough with everyone i was around, and was headed down a baaaad path, i tried to "do something with my life". i went to job corps first, and from there i went into the army. 8 YEARS of my life was spent pursuing a better paycheck. and what was i all those years? if not the unhappiest that i had been up until that point in my life, then certainly unhappy enough to be depressed constantly, with my lack of social skills, and my heavy drinking. indeed, i have never drank so much in my life up until that point, and i picked up smoking also. i smoked like a chimney, and drank like a fish. i drank myself to near death a couple of times, and looking back, it was because i was intensely unhappy.
and where did it get me in the end? i am not qualified for any job in the field i was trained in, and what's worse, is that i wasted 8 years of my life, lost most of my friends, and missed out on my niece's upbringing(she had had cancer as a baby, and throughout her earlier years). i am still no closer to finding a job i enjoy, OR that can pay me enough to feel like what i did with those 8 years was beneficial in ANY way.
so, i ask everyone, what is the good with pursuing a status, and more money, if i'm ultimately not happy by it? you think what some random female thinks is really what i should be caring about here? that i should only make myself more appealing to them? somehow, that is as misdirected as me wasting 8 years of my life, for nothing. even if someone were to get a date or relationship BECAUSE of their status or job, that would make the female extremely shallow, money-grubbing, and ultimately, not the best companion in the world, would it not?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 21, 2013 06:27 PM |
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More hard! More Sexy! More rivalry! More *****!
+plus size clothing in New York! But news was a idiot! Now women know about it, they buys all cool clothing, they will be better sexy! Hm future people are better gene ie. clothing etc and +plus size take it team.. Laughing woman stand at home! - Majority said!
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted July 21, 2013 07:54 PM |
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I think you're gaming this a bit much, Sal. I do think there's a core of truth in all that stuff those people with dating advice/ "pick-up artists"/ misogynists say. The thing it always boils down to is this: be confident, be entertaining.
Guess what, people like to hang out with confident and entertaining people. Easier said than done of course, so many people turn it into a game or whatever or they say like "even if you're not, just act confidently" or whatever.
That's incredibly stupid, of course, because: what are you, if you aren't what you do?
I know, I know, you're good with kids, honest, kind. All your positive qualities are "at least, I'm not a snow," but these snows have the heart to go out and offer something and be interesting to those women and that's why "Trust me, it works. I'm somewhat of a pick-up artist."
Also, Fred, why would a woman be interested in a man who doesn't do something he likes or isn't succesful? Think of it this way: Women don't look for the trappings of wealth (well, there are always gold-diggers~~), but if you show that you are comfortable in life and have your stuff together (by having a nice job, being cormfortable around people, confident in yourself and happy with yourself), then a woman is a lot more interested in you.
They're not superficial. They're practical (subconsciously most of the time) and they're not out there to save you. Neither should there be a man out there to save some woman. Romantic relationships shouldn't be about co-dependency.
(I probably spelt that last word wrong.)
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 07:59 PM |
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DagothGares said:
Also, Fred, why would a woman be interested in a man who doesn't do something he likes or isn't succesful? Think of it this way: Women don't look for the trappings of wealth (well, there are always gold-diggers~~), but if you show that you are comfortable in life and have your stuff together (by having a nice job, being cormfortable around people, confident in yourself and happy with yourself), then a woman is a lot more interested in you.
They're not superficial. They're practical (subconsciously most of the time) and they're not out there to save you. Neither should there be a man out there to save some woman. Romantic relationships shouldn't be about co-dependency.
i wasn't addressing all women, i was addressing what sal and artu were talking about. i was only referring to their scenario, and expanding on what i had said before. i agree with what you said, actually.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 21, 2013 08:01 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 20:10, 21 Jul 2013.
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DagothGares said:
Also, Fred, why would a woman be interested in a man who doesn't do something he likes or isn't succesful?
Success has little got to do in a relationship. Please tell me again how many pricks,college dropouts, school losers get to have relationships with women?
Quite a lot actually.
This sounds like social darwinisn in relationships. People with degrees, jobs are NOT MORE likely to have a relationship with a random guy or chick. 1+1 does not equal 2 when it comes to human behavior.
People may choose somebody being inferior just because they have a better, wittier personality. Your 102% scores, 12000 dolar salary is not going to help you start a relationship. Do they help? Money always helps but nobody gives a snow about your personal achievements.
Outside factors may lead for a prospective relationship to fail such as(Oh, how could fall in love with a dirty jobless immigrant student).
Love is an irrational thing, not a socioeconomic Phd Thesis like some of you guys make it out to be.
Personally, I would not care at all if the girl I am in love with is unemployed or works in a bank.
Do women care? I dont know, maybe a woman should answer this.
IMO, you guys are overgeneralizing.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 21, 2013 08:22 PM |
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@ seraphim:
listen to this song. don't be deterred, it's actually pretty accurate, all women DO have a little ***** in them, just like all men have a little ***hole in them.
this is the kind of woman i am talking about. i'm not talking about all women.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 21, 2013 08:24 PM |
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Quote:
Love is an irrational thing, not a socioeconomic Phd Thesis like some of you guys make it out to be.
Personally, I would not care at all if the girl I am in love with is unemployed or works in a bank.
First of all, I always put it as an aspect of it, not the whole thing. And I also said it's about being able to relate to each other rather than success hunting but putting these aside, you choosing girls and girls choosing you are very very different things. Women are the ultimate decision makers, they have generally broader variety of options, and their biological subplot is different. So, who YOU would choose is totally irrelevant here.
Just look at the world and its match-ups, not much need for theorizing. There are exceptions sure, but they are perceived as fairy tales, not the norm.
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