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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 08:03 AM |
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Yeah, my head explodes with all the tricks I must invent to prevent players from cheating. But I will fix it, looks like I added a double check, battle counter should simply stay at same value when fighting citadel.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 08:11 AM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 08:18, 24 Apr 2013.
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lol
I never use Citadel anyway  is to far away; to much of a hassle to take those gods on secondary heroes. Unless MoE, I think, when a shrine will be there.
Do you have Gods on Commodus or they get destroyed by AI pretty fast? These Gods are WoG creatures (must be as in SoD they were not implemented) and I have little info on their behaviour as I played v little WoG.
And why fighting that place gives negative counter to overall fights?
Edit:
Quote:
Death Blow works with Attack all around right?
What about 1st cast frenzy? will reduce Hp only on attacked stack, but the attack bonus will be calculated on all sides of the Hex? Can't remember how a Frenzy Hydra works? prolly ye
And Stack enchanted Bless? does it benefit from Upgraded spell? if yes, if dispelled start to build on next round from start? Same question for Prayer enchanted stack.
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 08:14 AM |
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Quote:
And why fighting that place gives negative counter to overall fights?
To prevent exploit, you can have another battle after visiting the Citadel by simply deleting the God. Basically it's like abusing Dragon Caves to gain battle count for Special Level bonuses.
Quote:
And Stack enchanted Bless? does it benefit from Upgraded spell? if yes, if dispelled start to build on next round from start? Same question for Prayer enchanted stack.
Yes, yes it does receive benefit from your upgrade, haven't tested the Dispel issue though Bless means little at the begin and by the time we can gain max effect from it (max magic upgrade and damage for AD) we should probably get Sphere of Permanence already.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 08:17 AM |
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Once you kill Josephine, the citadel is at one day walk. I take gods always on secondary heroes because they will give a nice spell power bonus weekly for Armageddon, saving me millions to invest. Also the gods have big HP and they can be used to block mobs in banks.
tested frenzy with attack all around, it is ok, works only on the creature you point the cursor.
Bless: if dispelled then cast/applied again, it continues from actual value, not from scratch. And of course it benefits from upgrades, why else I would add it to the abilities...normal bless is a joke.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 08:31 AM |
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Quote:
Bless: if dispelled then cast again, it continues from actual value, not from scratch.
Quote:
it benefits from the spell upgrade.
That is pretty neat. Having bless from round 1, even with 1% bonus every round is cool. Plenty of situations when you don't have the luxury to cast a bless or you think that I will have to dispell in 2 rounds anyway, but like this is an upgrade which goes slowly up.
That also means that the gold income should be solid to have the bless as up as possible , as fast as possible. Giving a new meaning to treasure hunters 
I wasn't very thrilled about using em before  as Bless was not really one of my secret weapons.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 08:34 AM |
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In Hell bless is very powerful, in lower difficulties you will need most of times to reserve it for demons, but now I have all abilities bought and switch them around as I like.
Just a note: save before switching abilities, if you do a mistake (ex the creature has no more free slots), the ability is lost for ever.
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 08:37 AM |
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Yup, not to mention in Hell we can upgrade Damage any much as possible (can you?), making Bless effects add up even faster.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 08:43 AM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 08:46, 24 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Test a bit and wow, Reduce Def is % rather than flat, meaning that if you set it to 100 you will completely ignore all of the target Def. Other infos are each Atk difference gives 5% bonus (max +300% = 60 Atk) without Offense, each Def difference gives 2% reduced dmg (max -70% = 35 Def) without Armorer. Both are tested with extremely high value of Atk and Def to fit TEW 4 standard (like say 1000 Atk and 5000 Def), if anyone is interested I can upload the save (very simple edit though).
I am sorry. I didn't understand.
So reduce def. ability is %. How much? 40% was stated in some posts ago
And maximum attack bonus is calculated up to 60 more attack vs target defense? as in I will get bonuses to my dmg based on my attack vs target def up to 60 points?
if(myAttack-targetDef<0) then no bonus, prolly negative,
if(60>myAttack-targetDef>0) then get 5% bonus to dmg for each point?
if(myAttack-targetDef>60) then bonus gets capped at 60x5%=300% bonus?
after that the attack is redundant
Somehow the same for def? within those limits?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 08:43 AM |
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Theoretically you can, but is still very expensive, 100 mithril for +1 for demons, it is not like you will be able to create demons with 1000 damage soon, while AI gets 50% growth every month. Anyway, it was already available with the magic shop, it's just more convenient to not visit it, and also be able to upgrade demons HP past 100.
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 08:57 AM |
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Quote:
I am sorry. I didn't understand.
So reduce def. ability is %. How much? 40% was stated in some posts ago
I was testing whether Reduce Def is % or Flat (simple ignore 40 points of Def), and it is %. It TEW 4 it is set as 40%.
Quote:
And maximum attack bonus is calculated up to 60 more attack vs target defense? as in I will get bonuses to my dmg based on my attack vs target def up to 60 points
if(myAttack-targetDef<0) then no bonus, prolly negative,
if(60>myAttack-targetDef>0) then get 5% bonus to dmg for each point?
if(myAttack-targetDef>60) then bonus gets capped at 60x5%=300% bonus?
after that the attack is redundant
Somehow the same for def? withing those limits?
. Your attack - target Def = A. Take A and * with 5% to get the % bonus damage. Max bonus is 300% bonus damage.
For example target Def is 20, your Devil attack (after being boosted by Heroes) is 50 in total. 50 - 20 = 30 * 5% = 150% bonus damage. If your Devil has 100 dmg => he will deal 250 dmg to the target.
Another example but with Reduce Def (40%) this time. Your Devil has 350 Atk and 100 damage, target has 500 Def. Reduce Def will ignore 40% of his Def => 500 * 0.6 = 300 Def. Now use the same formula: 350 (Devil Attack) - 300 (Target Def) = 50 * 5% = 250% bonus damage (though remember that max bonus damage is 300% and you can't get higher bonus no matter how high your Attack is) => Devil will deal 100 + 250% = 350 damage to target. Now it's Def turn.
. Your Def - target Atk = B. Take B and * with 2% to get the % damage reduced. Max damage reduced without Armorer is 70%.
Devil has 100 Def, target has 65 Atk and 100 damage. 100 - 65 = 35 * 2% = 70% reduced => target will deal 100 * 0.3 = 30.
Hope I explain clear enough .
You can check the difference between having 100% Reduce Def and not here (let the Sprite fight each other):
http://www.mediafire.com/?jq12l4hbcnnn1ne
This one has 100% Reduce Def, and you get 300% bonus damage even with 4000 points gap in Def
http://www.mediafire.com/?7r4nep395jxdjdr
This one has no Reduce Def, and your damage is reduced by 70%, even though the gap is once again 4000 Def.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 09:03 AM |
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ye, is what I thought, this time was clearer.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 09:03 AM |
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Hmm, you give me an idea for adding one option to the magic shop: increase % of reduce defense.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 09:07 AM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 09:16, 24 Apr 2013.
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might be to strong.
depending on price.
Reminds me of World of Warcraft. there was a stat in there called Armor Penetration which was reducing target defense against melee attacks and when you were getting close to cap (100%), in very good gear , the stat was so good that everyone simply ditched any armor piece that was not having it.
They eventually removed the stat completely from the game.
Edit: because here there is an internal cap on attack then it might work . The price must be calculated based on benefits. 10% more armor reduction, in a hell game, should be a hefty amount of more dmg. vs the target.
I remember Dace. his dragons were already at 140 defense , and my attack was around 70 (that is AD attack). 140-40% =84.(after reduced defense) then with his armorer bonuses. anyway : 188 ADs were killing 8 Black Dragons. and was only month 3. Ofc based also on Dragons Hp.
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 09:15 AM |
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Depends on the value, I think 60-70% Reduce Def is really strong and enough to clear the game.
Quote:
might be to strong.
depending on price.
Reminds me of World of Warcraft. there was a stat in there called Armor Penetration which was reducing target defense against melee attacks and when you were getting close to cap (100%), in very good gear , the stat was so good that everyone simply ditched any armor piece that was not having it.
They eventually removed the stat completely from the game.
Nothing is too strong really.
You play Warcraft and you know True Damage right? Damage that can't be reduced by any means. While it sounds extremely broken, it can be countered heavily by simply stacking Health and ignore armor (mostly because skills with True Damage has much lower value than normal skills). But if you stack Health only and ignore armor you will be roasted by someone who stack only Damage without Armor Pen. And thus it becomes a full cycle that counter each other, but yeah the value decides everything.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 09:26 AM |
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I need to test and see to how much + damage 10% armor reduction corresponds. The price could be something different this time, as Commodus stats for example. Like -5 to all stats for an 10% increase, then remove option +1 all stats from hell.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 24, 2013 12:45 PM |
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alisapa,I know you are a genious!
I admit also Sal is pretty fast to fix the battle counter(and the negative mithril effect).
So are we going to increase % of reduce defence(>40%) or we start talking about some armorer decrease/increase?
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 12:57 PM |
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Quote:
So are we going to increase % of reduce defence(>40%)
Yes seems like this.
Anyway seeing that Sal is able to upgrade abilities even after purchasing there are actually a lot of options to upgrade in Magic Shop:
_ Erase Bless becoming Mass upon cast option in the Magic Shop, turn Enchanted Bless ability into Mass as Ace level instead.
_ Increase % number of Clone produced (like from 70% to 100%).
_ Basic level now have all abilities of Ace level (meaning that Clones also have Attack All Around, Fire Immunity, Reduce Def, Attack Return, Immunity 3, Death Blow.... Yes VERY STRONG upgrade. Or you could separate each ability into different upgrade. This is actually my Master of Illusion faction idea lulz .
_ Combo gives same bonuses to Clones.
_ Disable 3 Arrow Towers (no more Clones clear yay).
etc
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 24, 2013 01:04 PM |
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alisapa,don't you feel a bit dizzy with all the changes coming on daily base still untested?
Don't you support Sal to have a nice spring/summer rest with lots of women around him(not necessarily fans of Heroes)?
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2013 01:07 PM |
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Quote:
alisapa,don't you feel a bit dizzy with all the changes coming on daily base still untested?
Don't you support Sal to have a nice spring/summer rest with lots of women around him(not necessarily fans of Heroes)?
It's just me being me , and I have never forced Sal to follow all the proposal changes anyway. It just seems that he is finding some more options to upgrade and I am helping him here /
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 24, 2013 01:18 PM |
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The idea is nice, erm very powerful thus we are tempted to add more and more crazy things, and then AI seems weak, so we add again bonus for him, then something not right, and we continue to scrabble. I think I will stop here but fix any bugs reported, if I continue to add things, will never stop.
This reduce defense would need again full test, and I already have full my hands in testing the hell difficulty. So far I am very happy with hell.
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