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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 374 pages long: 1 50 100 ... 139 140 141 142 143 ... 150 200 250 300 350 374 · «PREV / NEXT»
P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted May 31, 2015 03:32 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 03:42, 31 May 2015.

Maybe you think so, but the law in that case is quite different... If someone noticed you stealing his graphic without his/her permission it's a copyright violation in any case. You need a permition to do so per letter or email that grants you the right... even if it's "just" a mod and "just" non-comercial. At least in middle europe it's a clear act of copyright violation, only most ppl are lucky enough nobody search the net for mods and graphics containing his/her own work. In any case, if I'm the HotA team I would demand a written form of certification, that you're the owner/creator of this graphic, to make sure, I as releaser of any modification can't be made responsible for any legal issues, so that statement about copyright is clear to me and be on the safe side. I got some modder friends who had to pay 1500-2500Ä compensation for their "trivial offence" of copyright violations. In any case: if you're accused, you've stolen some copyright stuff you have to justify/defend yourself and make sure that these accusations aren't true, wastes a lot of time and even if there is a lawyer involved you have to pay anyways. I don't think this'll happen just about one trivial little picture, but I would just make sure to know my own rights and got the permission to modify it, if I were in your shoes. Rest is up to you...

And btw. some of my mods (graphics) went official and I had to certificate my work in written letters, that I give freely my graphics for commercial use. Because these games are still sold...

Try russia in case of copyrights, nobody give a fuc-k there... but I'm not sure either if it's still the same as some years ago.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 31, 2015 08:35 AM
Edited by fred79 at 22:21, 31 May 2015.

off-topic/

man, if you really think law enforcers are going to go after a computer game modder, in a fan-based, non-profit community, then i don't know what to tell you.

if i was ever contacted by any entity regarding legal issues over what i can find on google and elsewhere(that i mod and DON'T MAKE A PROFIT FROM), i would laugh at them. this snow is not serious. as long as there isn't any money involved, it won't be an issue.

but this discussion has been beaten to death, by many more than you an i, and for far longer than i've been here. give it a rest, it's a waste of all of our time. we might as well discuss if the president/king/queen of all of our countries care if we enlarge pictures of paintings we took at museums, and line the inside walls of our house with them. i mean, come on. it's ridiculous.

------
i had stopped reading your last post after a short way in, so i didn't even see the rest.

your "warning" is absolutely ridiculous. i don't know ANYONE who have ever faced ANY entity over copyright issues(for ANYTHING, not just game-modding. how many modding websites are out there, again?). how many people download movies for free? how many people watch movies online for free? we're talking MILLIONS of people all over the world, watching HUNDREDS of movies that would lose movie companies MILLIONS of dollars in theater revenue, and NO ONE is getting in trouble for that. sounds criminal, right? but if it was so bad, then why is no one getting in trouble? because there are more important things for the authorites to consider. like say, terrorism. murder. rape. environmental destruction. the list of what's more important, that is ACTUALLY CRIMINAL IN NATURE, goes on an on.

now that i've given you some desperately needed perspective, consider game-modding(which isn't even a criminal act, ffs). how many websites are there, and how many communities mod games(not to mention, how many games are actually modded) for non-profit, by people who BOUGHT AND OWN THE GAMES BEING MODDED? go ahead and do a search on google for the nearly endless list of game-modding websites, i'll wait. now that you can see the scope of the non-issue, what in the goddamn hell makes you think that gaming companies, artists, or ANYONE is going to go after an individual who is modding simply for non-profit fun?

the fact that you even posted such modding-stifling nonsense is enraging. the logic behind it is mind-boggling. modding isn't a BUSINESS. it is a harmless HOBBY. if big companies could prey on people because of a harmless HOBBY, then modding WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO EXIST. and yet, it does. and why? because we're harmless. because we DON'T PROFIT from what we do.

that these companies CANNOT PROFIT FROM OUR FREE WORK(which is something they're trying to change, on Steam at least), is the exact reason, as i see it, that you would even post such nonsense.

your "warning" doesn't even BEGIN to apply here, or in ANY non-profit modding community.


that said, i think simple respect is a desired quality among modders, for altered work. but that's just manners. it isn't out of any fear of reprisal; but simple good will. mentioning credit where it is due, is more than enough, for the work we do.

and just in case you didn't fully understand, when i said i got the original graphic from a civ3 community, i meant, a civ3 MODDING community. you can google search for them too. they change all kinds of things about the civilization games, and no one over there is worried irrationally about some reprisal. and SENSIBLY so.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2015 10:10 AM
Edited by Macron1 at 10:12, 01 Jun 2015.

P4R4D0X0N said:
So in that case it's a modified original... hard to use for something official. :/ I know that myself, I've done a lot of Mods over the year for lots of games. Everything modified not entirely build from scratch is "private use only".


Lol.

PS So you are saying that HOTA is illegal?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 01, 2015 11:05 AM

As long as nobody gains money from it or other commercial value, I don't see the problem with it.
Otherwise would all fan made mods be illegal?!  

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mrkafu
mrkafu


Adventuring Hero
posted June 01, 2015 11:14 AM

I believe that it's not finality or purpose  of the fact that you are using copyrighted material that counts... but the simple fact that you are using it without authorization...
____________
All winged horses are mammals.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2015 11:17 AM

mrkafu said:
I believe that it's not finality or purpose  of the fact that you are using copyrighted material that counts... but the simple fact that you are using it without authorization...


Show me at least one modder that got permission to use Heroes 3 sprites/bitmaps/data or Exe files from 3DO (Ubi Soft).
Asking permission from modders is like getting allowance from thieves

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mrkafu
mrkafu


Adventuring Hero
posted June 01, 2015 11:28 AM

You are right and I totally agree with you...
But objectively it remains a valid point that if someone would start asking questions, that would be the starting point (what I was saying before)

____________
All winged horses are mammals.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted June 01, 2015 11:46 AM
Edited by Warmonger at 11:48, 01 Jun 2015.

Quote:
I believe that it's not finality or purpose  of the fact that you are using copyrighted material that counts... but the simple fact that you are using it without authorization...

What counts is the opinion of copyright owners. If Ubisoft doesn't care about modifications to their game, no one else can object.
____________
The future of Heroes 3 is here!

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husham123
husham123


Famous Hero
Yes
posted June 01, 2015 02:28 PM

HO, HO, Calm down !
I though you were saying NEUTRAL creatures, not ALTERNATIVE creatures, that was getting me angry.

Also, WHY NOT tree animations and level 5 shrine ?
Suggestions never have to be applyed, they could even get ignored.

Hey, and Kronverk and Forge and Cathedral are currently in progress, but freezed.
____________
What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? Iíll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and Iíve been involved in numerous secret

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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
posted June 01, 2015 04:34 PM

husham123 said:
HO, HO, Calm down !
I though you were saying NEUTRAL creatures, not ALTERNATIVE creatures, that was getting me angry.

Also, WHY NOT tree animations and level 5 shrine ?
Suggestions never have to be applyed, they could even get ignored.

Hey, and Kronverk and Forge and Cathedral are currently in progress, but freezed.

?...

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted June 01, 2015 05:07 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 17:37, 01 Jun 2015.

fred79 said:
off-topic/

man, if you really think law enforcers are going to go after a computer game modder, in a fan-based, non-profit community, then i don't know what to tell you.

if i was ever contacted by any entity regarding legal issues over what i can find on google and elsewhere(that i mod and DON'T MAKE A PROFIT FROM), i would laugh at them. this snow is not serious. as long as there isn't any money involved, it won't be an issue.

but this discussion has been beaten to death, by many more than you an i, and for far longer than i've been here. give it a rest, it's a waste of all of our time. we might as well discuss if the president/king/queen of all of our countries care if we enlarge pictures of paintings we took at museums, and line the inside walls of our house with them. i mean, come on. it's ridiculous.


As I said, you may think so, but in any case it's a copyright violation, if you use copyrighted material without permission, basta. I don't think these modders have paid 2000Ä just for fun (it was disassemblet polygon models from a quite popular game with some minimal changes in that case) just because they have too much money for a FREE and NON-COMMERCIAL Mod. It's not that simple as you think it is. It's a difference if you build something from scratch or diassemble and modify work of others or third party users without permission, even the WoG Modders (afaik, and as I read it on their page) had the permission to mod the game, because they made their mods official. If you mod something for yourself and anybody except you is supposed to see that stuff it's always free (at least if you buyed the graphics from other games and didn't got the stuff per digital piracy), even if u use stuff without permission, publicating copyrighted stuff without permission of using that stuff is something different.

Macron1 said:

Lol.

PS So you are saying that HOTA is illegal?


Nope, if every used graphic is checked/permitted to use/modify there isn't any legal problem at all, if everything is made from scratch it's even better and hasn't any legal problems. The modified ingame graphic was permitted to WoG Team years ago, so I guess this isn't a problem either if some stuff from ERA e.g. is modified. "New stuff" simply stolen from other sources without permission is a copyright violation in case of personal property, even if you modify that stuff and the owner still recognize his/her work, in that case you have to justify yourself, in most case the used stuff has to be removed and very little ppl get problems with a lawyer in case of non-commericial product, but I personally wouldn't use any stuff from UBI or EA, that definitive could get expensive as I mentioned twice before (at least if you use disassemblet polygon-models from popular characters for your own work and publicate it).

In case of WoG I personally recognize a graphic from D14blo 2's "Qu1lt3d 4rmor" or L4rry 3lm0r3's drawings of "L0ren S0th" (Dr4gonl4nc3) are also used for N4g4sh. (Leetspeech vs. recognization from G00gl3) They got lucky nobody complained about the use... 'coz that stuff is quite popular

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2015 05:51 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:

Macron1 said:

Lol.

PS So you are saying that HOTA is illegal?


Nope, if every used graphic is checked/permitted to use/modify there isn't any legal problem at all, if everything is made from scratch it's even better and hasn't any legal problems. The modified ingame graphic was permitted to WoG Team years ago

At first, HOTA team is not WOG team. If something were allowed to WOG team, it doesnt mean it is allowed to HOTA. WOG Team used materials from Disciples, Cassacks, etc.
HOTA crew actively distribute HOTA with modified original EXE file. Distributing reverse engineered EXE is prohibited in many countries. And in Russia also (you can reverse EXE, but cannot distribute modified file).
And at third, HOTA uses graphics from original Heroes 3 (it goes to "fixing" townscreens, icons for creatures and artifacts).
So you demonstrate two-faced problem analyze.
You demand from modders to get permissions (they often use materials from thousand diff. games, and even don't have that games - there are a lot of sites hosting sprites and modified sprites based on some game).
But you got another way to HOTA mod. I recommend you to be true to yourself and delete all Heroes 3 mods incl. HOTA from your computer. You must secure yourself from law breaking.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 01, 2015 07:25 PM

Useless and worthless argues. If Hota uses only self made graphics is because it means an honor point to them, not because copyright problems. All graphical mods for wog use "borrowed" graphics from other games (some which are very nice btw) but indeed this is legally ...hum. Hota made an original expansion, so they designed everything by themselves. Because they can.

Therefore I think is dead end for fred's barrels. Must be designed from scratch.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted June 01, 2015 07:41 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 19:43, 01 Jun 2015.

Macron1 said:

You demand from modders to get permissions (they often use materials from thousand diff. games, and even don't have that games - there are a lot of sites hosting sprites and modified sprites based on some game).
But you got another way to HOTA mod. I recommend you to be true to yourself and delete all Heroes 3 mods incl. HOTA from your computer. You must secure yourself from law breaking.


I don't demand anything, I just inform. Sure it's not the same, if WoG guys got permission, 3DO doesn't exist anymore it's UBI now for quite a while, but even the WoG.exe was modified anyways. Why should I secure myself from law breaking of others? I'm not the author of the software, thats quite different... Seems I hit a sensitive spot here.

Salamandre said:
Therefore I think is dead end for fred's barrels. Must be designed from scratch.


Not necessarily...

@topic: *sigh* just forget about that issue I won't find any understanding, feel informed and be sure I won't denounce anybody here. I just wrote it because I recently modded some games and read about that copyright stuff and the penalty a few days ago, thats all.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted June 01, 2015 08:06 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Why should I secure myself from law breaking of others? I'm not the author of the software, thats quite different...

There are laws for punishing byers/users of stolen goods. And in many countries use of illegal programs is also prohibited. Like in Russia you may use only legally published software. Don't think it's different in other countries. Like users of TOR are often taken to police by use of illegaly crypting software.

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted June 01, 2015 09:45 PM

well, if the HotA team feels that they need more original stuff, how about different versions of their own objects? i'm currently working on more ocean objects, and i have converted one of their pirate dwellings(the one with the two buildings on a hill), as well as the pirate cove object(the one with the flowing pirate flag), so that they sit on beach rocks, and on the ocean as well.

let me know. i'm really only interested in the one treasure chest; the other treasure chest that floats in the ocean looks far too heavy to float(and i'll be making my own floating chests, anyway).
____________

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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
posted June 01, 2015 09:53 PM

fred79 said:




What purpose did the vial of gog blood have?

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted June 01, 2015 09:55 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 22:08, 01 Jun 2015.

I offer myself (again) if you need some more snowy versions of mapobjects (university) for example. Just lemme know... even without "explit authorisation" 'coz the objects are already in game.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted June 01, 2015 11:10 PM

Datapack said:
husham123 said:
HO, HO, Calm down !
I though you were saying NEUTRAL creatures, not ALTERNATIVE creatures, that was getting me angry.

Also, WHY NOT tree animations and level 5 shrine ?
Suggestions never have to be applyed, they could even get ignored.

Hey, and Kronverk and Forge and Cathedral are currently in progress, but freezed.

?...


I think he was replying to a reply on his previous post, on page 139. Both Hourglass and Pellish replied to his post about alternatives, Forge and Kronverk and such. He just didn't bother to quote either of them, making it look like his post came out of thin air, because the discussion had already proceeded in a different direction.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted June 02, 2015 12:32 AM

Been a while since I looked into HotA.

Question: what is the HotA team currently working on atm?

If you see this a "he's too lazy to look through the thread" question just ignore me...

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