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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 11, 2017 07:21 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
Other solution: The spell written on that scroll cost 50% less Mana. But this would just buff strong scrolls like Armageddon and DD much more compared to other scrolls.
Really like this idea.
Just noticed the spells you mentioned... swap Heal with View Air and you have the spells I remember to be cursing computer cause it didn't gave me them and can't do something important because of it.
Another thing, I'm pretty sure you (dev. team) gave some tought before taking the wood and ore from the Spit bank and I agree that in random maps to get the resources to build castle from a single fight can be unballanced for a bank only present in swamp but as a mapmaker I felt the necessity of putting banks giving wood and ore where they're must needed (for instance, Castle and Stronghold versus Tower and Conflux), so I would like to sugest a bank or modification of this one that:
1. Is available in all types of terrain;
2. gives Wood and Ore (maybe with gold maybe without);
3. has a fight/reward value equivalent to the Dwarven Treasury.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted February 12, 2017 12:05 AM |
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Would be well enough imho to put in some more map objects to get wood/ore. With more and different objects you can differ the the balance much better.
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Hero_of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted February 12, 2017 02:03 PM |
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You do know that you can trade scrolls (or any artifacts for that matter) for resources in an Artifact Merchant right?
All these scrolls provide some essential spells in early game and valuable resources (that may be used to upgrade mage guilds) after they are obsolete. As far as I am concerned they are valuable.
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Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted February 12, 2017 04:02 PM |
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It always depends... sure... and 2 resources for a lvl 1 scroll is quite something too, IF you got an artifact merchant. It's tricky, 'coz you need 10k for it and in most case you need most resources early on and midgame, where you don't have the money to build it. I still prefer other artifacts (Set-Artifacts much more).
To sum it up:
-Artifact merchant isn't available for every town
-Towns that are dependant on crystal (Rampart & Stronghold) can't get it (I personally get problems with crystals on quite every map and faction. dunno why)
-Merchant is expensive (no use when you need it -> early- and midgame)
-Scrolls may be useful on low level, nearly no use mid- and lategame while you don't nee resources anymore (lategame)
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 13, 2017 12:09 AM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
These two are the most useful lvl1 spells for sure. But they just make real sense in mid or lategame (Air- and Earth-Magic on Expert) thats when scrolls are absolete and you already have your spells in your tome.
what are you talking about? If you don't have them in your guild and find them on the map during the first days it certainly boosts early game. Most other low level spells are helpful and the sooner you get them the better your game goes.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 12:38 AM |
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Galaad said:
what are you talking about? If you don't have them in your guild and find them on the map during the first days it certainly boosts early game. Most other low level spells are helpful and the sooner you get them the better your game goes.
Dunno what maps you play on, but on my maps artifact merchants are quite rare. On my last G-Maps I got 3-4 the whole map, and this is quite rare for my taste.
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Serp
Known Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 01:52 AM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
Galaad said:
what are you talking about? If you don't have them in your guild and find them on the map during the first days it certainly boosts early game. Most other low level spells are helpful and the sooner you get them the better your game goes.
Dunno what maps you play on, but on my maps artifact merchants are quite rare. On my last G-Maps I got 3-4 the whole map, and this is quite rare for my taste.
he is referring to haste/slow spells. If you don't have them in you magic guild, it is a hard boost to find them in spellscroll, cause with eg. slow you can beat bigger armies wiht your range units without any losses.
Same for other good spells that you did not find in your town.
But on the other side you can argue, that a magic shrine is enough to learn those spells. There are often plenty of those, at least for low level spells.
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skaniol
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 13, 2017 04:16 AM |
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ShEv441 said:
Hey. From time to time i hear complains about unbalanced skill system. There are almost 30 secondary skills but almost all the time we take the same 10-15. Maybe few diffrent for secondary hero ( like estates). Rest of them is quite useless and only thing we can do is to pray that we won't be forced to choose between those after rank-up.
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- Learning - should go from 5/10/15% more exp to 10/15/20% + maybe extra 1 point of attack/defence/power/knowlage every few levels - similar to "Enlightenment" from HOMM5
IMHO, there could be an extra effect to Learning that should make it a lot more useful skill. That is to have more skill options on a level-up. Most of the time when you level-up you have to choose between 2 skills (1 upgrade + 1 basic or 2 new or 2 to upgrade, etc.). If you have Basic Learning you'll be offered 2 additional skills, so it could be 2 to upgrade + 2 new at basic or 1 upgrade + 3 new or 4 to upgrade, etc.. At Advanced it could be 4 extra skills and on Expert - 6 extra. This way the leveling is still luck based, but you are a lot more flexible. I think it makes sense for a good learner to not only learn fast, but also to be better at concentrating on a single subject and to pick up new subjects with less effort.
I think of two ways to implement this. The first requires more coding and interface changes. It could look like this at expert level:
IMO, this way makes the skill OP 'cause you can pick from all offered skills at once and the individual skills can't repeat in the offer leading to more options than the second way below.
The second way requires less coding and almost no interface changes. It's also not OP. Basically, you just add a 'Reject' button  next to the 'Accept' one. When you level-up, you are offered the 2 skills like usual, but there is the reject button. If you press it, you are offered 2 new skills from a different skill tree. At Basic, you can press the reject button once, at Advanced - twice and at Expert - three times. This is more luck based because the rejection is risky - the new offer may contain worse skills and you can't bring back the previous one.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 13, 2017 09:47 AM |
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I like the second suggestion  .
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted February 13, 2017 11:18 AM |
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I think that doesn't really solve the problem that Learning is nearly useless in itself lol
it goes from being nearly useless, to being a skill which affects other skills but doesn't do anything long term or have value itself, (i.e. a fully powered hero would still always prefer to not have it and have Logistics or Armorer etc instead when all is said and done) lol
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 02:45 PM |
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On Expert Learning all gained experience points are doubled, for example.
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skaniol
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 13, 2017 04:04 PM |
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verriker said:
it goes from being nearly useless, to being a skill which affects other skills but doesn't do anything long term or have value itself, (i.e. a fully powered hero would still always prefer to not have it and have Logistics or Armorer etc instead when all is said and done) lol
That's true. Learning occupies one skill slot and it will be of less value when you get it late (when most of your other slots are at Expert), so it really needs a decent boost to the XP along any other effects in order to have any value late game. That said, what are the chances that you'll be able to pick the 8 perfect skills for your hero?
I always have a list of the most desired skills for a certain hero. These are skills which fulfil a certain strategy. The problem is that I often end up with 1-3 skills which may not be crap, but they simply don't fit. Also, it may take a while to upgrade to Expert the most important ones first. If Learning could increase the chance that the rest of my skills would be the right ones for the hero and the advancement will be in the order I prefer, then I think it's not that bad of a deal to "lose" one slot for Learning. I would still avoid picking Learning for my main hero, most likely, but I would consider it for my secondary and support heroes, while ATM I would pick any other skill over Learning.
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tax_375
Hired Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 04:50 PM |
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Edited by tax_375 at 16:52, 13 Feb 2017.
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I buffed learning to 50%-75%-100%. This is the easiest solution to make the skill worth to choose, yet keep the original purpose of it.
Now in an average game if a normal hero is on lvl20 the hero with learning will be lvl 23-25. I didn't do the math just from my gameplay experience so far. If this is too much it can be still fine tuned according your own taste.
Look for the know how in "how to edit hota" topic.
Opinion regarding skills:
Which is an everlasting problem and can not be fine tuned is eagle eye. This is discussed hundreds of times, but that would be one of the biggest achievement to somehow "redesign" this skill.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted February 13, 2017 05:27 PM |
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So could you guys give us an update of how 1.5 is progressing?
Are you working on the new template editor and would march 1 sound like an approximate release date or how about spreading some love on Valentine's Day? 
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 07:25 PM |
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verriker said:
I think that doesn't really solve the problem that Learning is nearly useless in itself lol
I am with Verriker. While that would be good for the heroes that already start with the skill, I more often then not am able to build each hero with exactly the skills I want and maybe 30% of the times with one less desired skill. Of course, there are those times when you get DD in your first level 5 mage guild but your main decides not to learn Air but those situations are rare enouch, so to choose one skill only to get better chance of getting the others is a waste.
tax_375 said:
I buffed learning to 50%-75%-100%. This is the easiest solution to make the skill worth to choose, yet keep the original purpose of it.
Now in an average game if a normal hero is on lvl20 the hero with learning will be lvl 23-25.
That will still be only usefull if the hero has a specialty that really improves with levels, like skill specialties. If not, just think what three more points of attack/deffense do compared to Offense/Armorer.
tax_375 said:
Opinion regarding skills:
Which is an everlasting problem and can not be fine tuned is eagle eye. This is discussed hundreds of times, but that would be one of the biggest achievement to somehow "redesign" this skill.
Have you tried the one in WoG? I think they really hit the bullseye with it. Pretty usefull while you have it and it's gone when it has lost his use.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 09:09 PM |
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Looking at the the Heroes 3 secondary skills page, and in particular the skill summary at the bottom, it's not just Learning that needs a buff.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted February 13, 2017 09:21 PM |
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This all skills discussions are always pissing me off, you want all the skills to be like Logistic or Offense? It would be BORING it that was the case.
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted February 13, 2017 09:59 PM |
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Learning would be great if give extra stat points like in WOG plus 2x experience points from everything.
Sorcery double damage on expert level.
Scholar you can teach also level 5 spells
Eagle Eye better chances to learn spells?
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avatar
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 10:28 PM |
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But, please remeber that boosted skills will be fine only in randoms maps. But may break playability in custom maps and campaigns.
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Wind_Falcon
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2017 11:00 PM |
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Skill balance discussions arise because people want more (and more interesting) strategic choices in building their heroes.
Of course this can't be done in the game as it is, as the mechanics and systems of the game need to support multiple play-styles that are both sufficiently different and relatively equally powerful to each other (or work in a rock-paper-scissors type of fashion in head-to-head).
And we all know (and if you don't competitive players will explain it for n-th time) that there is one best way to play the game, its just a matter of how well each player executes it that counts in the end of the day.
So its either the game stays relatively what it already is (as we all know and love it, flaws and all) and skills remain unbalanced in one form or another, or major systems changes and new mechanics are introduced to allow for new and viable ways to play the game.
This is the biggest shame that games of this type aren't made anymore, or if they are since there is no competition they rely on being the only thing out there so fans won't have a choice but check it out even if its crap (modern Heroes games), and since its crap there is no big inflow and no growth.
Heroes' flaws can't be fixed within the existing games, new games and franchises that aren't bound by previous titles are needed to do things differently and push the envelope further than what late 90s early 00s brought it up to.
I do hope that the experience and know-how that people amass around the various Heroes related projects will one day bear fruit not only in the form of modifications, but people going indie and breaking new ground as well.
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