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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 306 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 60 120 180 240 300 ... 302 303 304 305 306 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 03, 2018 01:24 PM

Jluil said:

Also what excatly is protection from water - like protection from ice bolt or ice ring?

It also protects against Magic Arrow, in fact all Protection from spells protect against Magic Arrow.

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Erathianer
Erathianer


Adventuring Hero
posted April 05, 2018 11:24 PM

Jluil said:
I'm not very fond of the change as well.
Sure it's nice as an experiment, maybe a new orb of inhibition could do something like this(for both sides?), but as a skill no-no.

Magic heroes are really bad because:
- they run out of mana fast early in the game
- mage guild is unreliable(patch partially solves this) and costs a lot of resources, which you rather invest into dwellings
- 75% of spells are useless
- for mass slow/haste/curse/bless you are good with 3 power 3 knowledge
- massive armies stack better with attack/defence; most spells are only good vs lower army counts

I have good faith in hota team, however i would start with changes like +mana reg. per knowledge and addressing mass spellcasting..
Also multiplicative resistance stacking is necessary - Thorgrim with some resistance artifacts is now absurd.

Protection spells were always a gamble - they only work vs damaging spells and you have to correctly guess the magic school.
So who is going to use that?
Also what excatly is protection from water - like protection from ice bolt or ice ring?
A single protection spell would make much more sense with a more balanced % and would not occupy too many precious mage guild slots.




you know, its heroes 3. at first i was sceptic at the new resistance skill too but now i think they did a good job with it after playing some maps. i dont understand why many people here think it is only possible to build might OR magic heroes. I mean in heroes3 you can have a hero with earth magic, tactics, offense, wisdom, fire magic etc. well thats how it works. the skills the heroes learn is the experience they make in their quest. you can also read a biography about every hero in the inventory when clicking on that portrait, its not necessary but that makes heroes 3 what it is and gives the game a soul. h3 is not a perfect balanced multi player game. if you want that, then play starcraft online and compete in an almost 100% perfect balanced game against other players.

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted April 06, 2018 10:35 AM

Erathianer said:
Jluil said:
I'm not very fond of the change as well.
Sure it's nice as an experiment, maybe a new orb of inhibition could do something like this(for both sides?), but as a skill no-no.

Magic heroes are really bad because:
- they run out of mana fast early in the game
- mage guild is unreliable(patch partially solves this) and costs a lot of resources, which you rather invest into dwellings
- 75% of spells are useless
- for mass slow/haste/curse/bless you are good with 3 power 3 knowledge
- massive armies stack better with attack/defence; most spells are only good vs lower army counts

I have good faith in hota team, however i would start with changes like +mana reg. per knowledge and addressing mass spellcasting..
Also multiplicative resistance stacking is necessary - Thorgrim with some resistance artifacts is now absurd.

Protection spells were always a gamble - they only work vs damaging spells and you have to correctly guess the magic school.
So who is going to use that?
Also what excatly is protection from water - like protection from ice bolt or ice ring?
A single protection spell would make much more sense with a more balanced % and would not occupy too many precious mage guild slots.




you know, its heroes 3. at first i was sceptic at the new resistance skill too but now i think they did a good job with it after playing some maps. i dont understand why many people here think it is only possible to build might OR magic heroes. I mean in heroes3 you can have a hero with earth magic, tactics, offense, wisdom, fire magic etc. well thats how it works. the skills the heroes learn is the experience they make in their quest. you can also read a biography about every hero in the inventory when clicking on that portrait, its not necessary but that makes heroes 3 what it is and gives the game a soul. h3 is not a perfect balanced multi player game. if you want that, then play starcraft online and compete in an almost 100% perfect balanced game against other players.


I'm not concerned about perfect balance, I don't think it can be achieved nor that we should strive for it.
StarCraft 1 or 2 is far from perfect balance. StarCraft 1 last balance patch was in like year 2000, yet the game is very fun to watch/play and has evolved strategically a lot. Also map making is part of the balance process.

Actually the rogue-like element of Heroes3 is part of what makes it fun.
But my concern is more about variety.
At the moment it is most optimal to pick a might hero, especially barbarian, overlord, beastmaster, knight, planewalker.. as your primary hero. No matter your starting town this is likely to be your tavern pick. The only magic heroes you are likely to consider are: Solmyr, Jeddite, Alamar, Deemer, Eovacius(clone), maybe Luna..

Wouldn't the game be more interesting if more variety would be possible?

Same problem with optimal spell strategies.
Most don't require you to have 10+ power 10+ knowledge, instead mass slow/haste/bless/curse is really easy to achieve and all you need is expert magic school, level 1 guild and 3-5 power, 3 knowledge.
Only spells that require more that 5 power and are actually useful are implosion, lightning spells, meteor shower, resurrect, summons.

Considering you have all the spells in the book would you rather choose 20/20/5/5 or 5/5/20/20 hero?
Yes it depends, but most of the time you will be better off with the might heroes.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 06, 2018 11:01 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 11:05, 06 Apr 2018.

An easy way to improve magic heroes is to improve skills which usually belongs to a magic hero, like Eagle Eye, Sorcery and Mysticism.
Why is Sorcery only 15% when Offense is 30% and Archery is 50%?
Sorcery is a poor skill, as it only affects few spells (damage spells) and gives low bonus damage. Sorcery is only useful if specialising in it, having some powerful damage spells like Implosion, Armageddon, Meteor Shower, Chain Lightning and having Earth, Air or Fire Orb.
The Orbs improves the damage, Sorcery does not really.
I think a better balance could be achieved by improving Sorcery to 20% or 25%, but having the Orbs only give +30%.
Sorcery could also affect duration of spells and spells which have to do with HP like Cure, Hypnotize, Animate Dead and Resurrection.
Who knows Sorcery could even become a must have skill for a magic hero.

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Gauvain
Gauvain

Tavern Dweller
posted April 06, 2018 01:09 PM
Edited by Gauvain at 13:12, 06 Apr 2018.

French version 1.5.2

HotA v1.5.2 for french players is available.

https://www.archangelcastle.com/acforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9419

Everybody can download the map "Master of the Deads/le Maitre des Morts" from the following link.
I'am the creator of this XL map. (Hakas/Gauvain is the same guy ;-))

Very very complexe map but the language is in french. Not easy to understand if you didn't knew a few words of french.
If anybody want to translate it in english ?

http://www.mediafire.com/file/1786s9xc6oj37ae/Le_Maitre_des_Morts.rar

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 06, 2018 04:35 PM

Jluil said:
Considering you have all the spells in the book would you rather choose 20/20/5/5 or 5/5/20/20 hero?
Yes it depends, but most of the time you will be better off with the might heroes.


And you know why that is? One reason and one reason alone: the ATT and DEF attributes of Heroes count as a passive boost to all creatures in the Hero's army.

The only way to solve the imbalance between Might Heroes and Magic Heroes is to remove that passive boost and come up with skills and abilities for Might Heroes that require active control, like a player needs to actively control Magic Heroes.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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foerno
foerno


Hired Hero
posted April 06, 2018 04:53 PM

is there a repository of custom-made random map templates? where could i upload a template i made?

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted April 06, 2018 07:20 PM
Edited by Jluil at 19:37, 06 Apr 2018.

Maurice said:
Jluil said:
Considering you have all the spells in the book would you rather choose 20/20/5/5 or 5/5/20/20 hero?
Yes it depends, but most of the time you will be better off with the might heroes.


And you know why that is? One reason and one reason alone: the ATT and DEF attributes of Heroes count as a passive boost to all creatures in the Hero's army.

The only way to solve the imbalance between Might Heroes and Magic Heroes is to remove that passive boost and come up with skills and abilities for Might Heroes that require active control, like a player needs to actively control Magic Heroes.


I wouldn't go that extreme right away.
But let's say that might heroes wouldn't be able to get a cheap mass spells for 5 mana.
And let's add some spells that really stack with your power.
For example let's have 5th level spell, divine blessing that increases all units attack and defence +power/2, but will cost 40 mana.
Having this spell and 5/5/20/20 would now turn into 15/15/20/20 maybe now it's too much tilted towards the magic hero.
So let's make it only last 1-2 turns, perhaps could work..
Ultimately the most interesting design would be multi-casting where certain buffs/debuffs might be casted multiple times, probably casted in the same round and quantity of spells depending on hero level/sec skills... but that would require some dramatic changes and a lot of testing.

____________

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Hired Hero
posted April 06, 2018 07:55 PM

Jluil said:
Maurice said:
Jluil said:
Considering you have all the spells in the book would you rather choose 20/20/5/5 or 5/5/20/20 hero?
Yes it depends, but most of the time you will be better off with the might heroes.


And you know why that is? One reason and one reason alone: the ATT and DEF attributes of Heroes count as a passive boost to all creatures in the Hero's army.

The only way to solve the imbalance between Might Heroes and Magic Heroes is to remove that passive boost and come up with skills and abilities for Might Heroes that require active control, like a player needs to actively control Magic Heroes.


I wouldn't go that extreme right away.
But let's say that might heroes wouldn't be able to get a cheap mass spells for 5 mana.
And let's add some spells that really stack with your power.
For example let's have 5th level spell, divine blessing that increases all units attack and defence +power/2, but will cost 40 mana.
Having this spell and 5/5/20/20 would now turn into 15/15/20/20 maybe now it's too much tilted towards the magic hero.
So let's make it only last 1-2 turns, perhaps could work..
Ultimately the most interesting design would be multi-casting where certain buffs/debuffs might be casted multiple times, probably casted in the same round and quantity of spells depending on hero level/sec skills... but that would require some dramatic changes and a lot of testing.



King's Bounty implemented this: http://kingsbounty.wikia.com/wiki/Higher_Magic
I also think it would be amazing to see this, it adds a whole new level of strategy to the game.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Adventuring Hero
posted April 06, 2018 08:09 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 20:12, 06 Apr 2018.

Jluil said:


I wouldn't go that extreme right away.
But let's say that might heroes wouldn't be able to get a cheap mass spells for 5 mana.
And let's add some spells that really stack with your power.
For example let's have 5th level spell, divine blessing that increases all units attack and defence +power/2, but will cost 40 mana.
Having this spell and 5/5/20/20 would now turn into 15/15/20/20 maybe now it's too much tilted towards the magic hero.
So let's make it only last 1-2 turns, perhaps could work..
Ultimately the most interesting design would be multi-casting where certain buffs/debuffs might be casted multiple times, probably casted in the same round and quantity of spells depending on hero level/sec skills... but that would require some dramatic changes and a lot of testing.



There are many things what makes might superior versus magic.

1)Might heroes scale way better.
Surprisingly low amount of Power is required to have enough - all extra points added to power will not make your hero much stronger. The same goes for pretty much knowledge as well.

2)Might heroes have better secondary skills
Offence/Defence/Tactics/Archery and many others are way better than
Mysticism/Sorcery/Eagle Eye/Scholar

3) Might has access to all important stuff magic heroes have; expert magic schools and wisdom.

4) Spell casting is limited to one cast per round. This is actually a big thing, since if more spells could be cast per round, magic heroes would have an edge there.

5) Might heroes have better heroes in general; Crag Hack, Tazar, Orrin... Those are really good heroes, but simply having a creature specialist is better than having a hero with a spell you are unlikely to cast. How cares if your fireball does more dmg?

6) Certain artifacts limit or even completely block your ways of using spells.

I actually like your suggestion for adding a way to cast more spells per round. Perhaps it's not the buff or debuff spells - how about if magic heroes could cast an extra dmg spell?

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RerryR
RerryR


Known Hero
posted April 06, 2018 08:30 PM
Edited by RerryR at 20:36, 06 Apr 2018.

Maurice said:

And you know why that is? One reason and one reason alone: the ATT and DEF attributes of Heroes count as a passive boost to all creatures in the Hero's army.


I totally agree with this statement. The scaling with att/def favors the current playstyle. I thought a lot about this problem when making my Magic Skills mods. WoG made it even worse in this regard by boosting the HP of creatures by 50% with stack exp.(i still love it ) and giving creatures more movement speed, thus making slow even stronger because it works with a percentage.  

Maurice said:

The only way to solve the imbalance between Might Heroes and Magic Heroes is to remove that passive boost and come up with skills and abilities for Might Heroes that require active control like a player needs to actively control Magic Heroes.


I don't think its necessary to remove the passive boost from att and def. In my opinion, You only need a system where magic heroes get a scaling as well, which is not easily acquired by other heroes.

My suggestion would be:

-Greatly reduce the overall power/usefulness of spells (especially slow and haste)
-Give all spells a scaling with spell power in a form of +att (Bloodlust) for every 10 spell power or so
-Sorcery and the 4 Magic secondary skills give a significant boost to this scaling. Or make higher levels of spells possible/unlockable.
-Increase the Mana Cost of spells while they get stronger

This creates a system where if you pick SS like now, you will end up with weaker spells as compared to now. But if you decide to invest more in magic secondary skills, sacrificing skills like armorer or logistics, for example, you will get stronger and more effective spells. By increasing the spell points you make sure that skills like intelligence and mysticism are valuable and it would be more difficult for heroes which only pick earth magic and happen to have high spell power struggle to cast these spells.

(the suggested system wouldn't solve all the current "problems" but some)

But wait... I'm in the Hota Thread... Might as well delete my post then       no just kidding, I'm looking forward to what they will come up with regarding the magic system.  


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LucPatenaude
LucPatenaude


Famous Hero
Owning all 6 Heroes games
posted April 07, 2018 04:35 AM

In this game and, pretty much in each and every one of them...

...Magic Heroes are only good as captains of castles of the front lines of the invasions that are under way by the main Might hero/army for any human player.

Since, any player playing any of the 6 main games of HoMM(not counting Heroes 1 here) knows that a real, full-time working person, does not, generally, have the time a playing any maps larger than plain large. So, in other words, only small, medium and, large maps have any recognition at playing any of these strategy games.

A lot of us, here, are pre-seniors of the real life status that is. I can recall so many times that I did not use my PC for up to 3 whole days of 24 hours each(total of 72 hours straight).

15 to 45 minutes at a time is almost the most time we can allow gaming to really happen. Street-Fighter games comes to mind when time is short for gaming. Serious strategy gaming is only considered when long periods of time such as weekends and long weekends come along.

My point is: The might hero will always be my first choice for any factions of this game in order to have an army that is large but not that large in order to jump on the A.I. players a.s.a.p.. Besides, on small maps, the A.I. will always try to invade the Human player anytime it thinks it can do so. Sometimes in the very first week of the very first month of that small map.


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Bluts
Bluts


Hired Hero
posted April 07, 2018 07:46 PM

One good way to balance magic and might heroes imo is to passivly increase the mana cost of all spells to might heroes and another idea ... magic heroes to get a second spell during a turn - this would really make a difference between might and magic heroes - but this kinda sounds too op now for the magic heroes ( 2 berserks in same turn - muhahahaha )
I dunno but something in those lines could be done, something that gives an edge to the magic heroes so that you'll consider picking any magic hero no matter what over some weaker might hero in a tavern.

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noname
noname


Hired Hero
posted April 09, 2018 12:09 PM

There is an issue with shipyards currently not being placed on normal type maps while there are big water bodies. Is there a workaround for this?

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Evaline
Evaline


Known Hero
posted April 09, 2018 04:09 PM

noname said:
There is an issue with shipyards currently not being placed on normal type maps while there are big water bodies. Is there a workaround for this?

Sure. Summon Boat + Adv/Expert Water Magic.

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LucPatenaude
LucPatenaude


Famous Hero
Owning all 6 Heroes games
posted April 09, 2018 05:57 PM

Ahem!

Evaline said:
noname said:
There is an issue with shipyards currently not being placed on normal type maps while there are big water bodies. Is there a workaround for this?

Sure. Summon Boat + Adv/Expert Water Magic.


Pretty damn hard to use the Summon Boat Adventure Spell when there is no boats existing anywhere on that map, buddy.

You need a shipyard to order the building of a boat(10 wood + 1000 GP). So, no boats built = no boats to summon or use for that matter.

Presuming this was an RMG made, Normal size map with the Islands option used. Usually the Normal amount of water on the map will not be large enough for Shipyards to be implemented by the RMG. That option will provide plenty of water on an XL, Huge and Gigantic map.

Once again, presuming that the Huge and Gigantic represents an entire world/planet that is not necessary the world of Enroth.


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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 09, 2018 06:04 PM

LucPatenaude said:
Pretty damn hard to use the Summon Boat Adventure Spell when there is no boats existing anywhere on that map, buddy.


Not at all. Expert water creates one, buddy.

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Evaline
Evaline


Known Hero
posted April 09, 2018 06:57 PM

LucPatenaude said:
Pretty damn hard to use the Summon Boat Adventure Spell when there is no boats existing anywhere on that map, buddy.

Advanced Water Magic also allow you creating a boat with 75% chances to success. No shipyard needed. Be sure to start the game and proof that out for yourself.

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perofake1
perofake1

Tavern Dweller
posted April 11, 2018 06:57 AM

RMG Template

Hello everyone,new to this site after playing heroes for many many years...

I have a question,i've noticed that in the HOTA patch with the RMG...

Every time i create a template,the game doesnt recognize it for me to select it and play it.
So far i've created around 4 or 5 templates,but none of them work.
The only thing that worked is editing an already existing template(and backing it up just in case ofcourse.).

Is there something i'm missing when it comes to template making?
Do i have to do something in order for it to work,something special?
Because i would like to mess around with my own template ideas(i had enough of playing vortex and jebus for 50 games in a row).

Help would be appreciated <3
____________

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted April 11, 2018 01:51 PM

@perofake1 did you put them in the correct (HotA_RMGTemplates) folder? And the template files itself are always named rmg.txt

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