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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 324 pages long: 1 40 80 120 160 200 240 280 ... 308 309 310 311 312 ... 320 324 · «PREV / NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 28, 2018 06:58 PM

nordos said:
it is merely used as a one-time thing. Once you relay the town portal, you are unlikely to create another hero needing it, or even if you do, you probably do so that he can gain access to Town Portal easily.

Ok, I find this somehow inapropriate in this thread but let me teach you how I use scholars.
1. the hero needs to have advanced Wisdom and expert Scholar, so it has to advance some levels.
2. lets assume I didn't got him advanced Earth Magic in the process, so he can't move trough the map at will.

First I do a poor man's Town Portal with the Scholar, i.e. I retreat after attacking nearby neutrals without army.
Second, I rehire him at the town where Town Portal can be learned and repeat the process to teach it to main hero and/or any other important hero that is too far away from my starting town.
Third, I return him to the starting town using the same retreat and hire process and put him in garrison. From this moment on everytime I visit the town with any hero, I use the HD Mod feature that allows to meat the hero in garrison to trade spells with the other heroes.
After sometime the trades start not bringing any spells, that means I have learned ALL spells available up to level 4 and this is the reason why I consider Tower's Skyship a more powerful grail then Conflux Auroraborealis.

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E1ChuRich
E1ChuRich

Tavern Dweller
posted May 30, 2018 10:01 AM

Im interested in state of other towns (cathedral, kronwerk, forge). Are they abandoned or is the team planing on working on them? Frankly the originality and lore friendlynes of this mod hooked me, it truly feels like official expansion, it would be shame if other towns/campaigns get abandoned. Even so tnx for the good work and keep it up

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robizeratul
robizeratul


Known Hero
posted June 01, 2018 07:08 PM
Edited by robizeratul at 19:10, 01 Jun 2018.

What of this from the old thread?:

"Work is apparently ongoing on version 2.0, and Docent Picolan (project leader) has asserted hopes that the next build will support WoG's ERA engine for scripting"

Was this dropped ? Could this come in the near future? or at least down the line?

Just look at Warcraft 3, doom 1/2 and half life, the addition of modding made these games  10x more popular. I think it would have a similar effect on HOTA. Sometimes you just want to play something fun/relaxing and not something serious.

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Docent_Picolan
Docent_Picolan


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted June 01, 2018 08:38 PM

New towns may still happen, but none are planned for the upcoming 1.6 version (any official news on this matter may be presented only as full-fledged announcements).

Quote:
Was this dropped ?

This was never seriously considered. Porting the expansion to the WoG/Era platform was being discussed during the earliest stage of development, but eventually we decided to stay within the boundaries of the original game. At this point, this kind of undertaking would demand unreasonable effort. Moreover, being user moddable is not a part of the HotA concept; we would much rather see players create regular content like new scenarios and RMG templates. Talking about the script side, some change to make the event system look more like what's present in HoMM4 might happen at some point.

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Sir_Juas
Sir_Juas

Tavern Dweller
posted June 01, 2018 09:59 PM

I like how that sounds

Docent_Picolan said:
We would much rather see players create regular content like new scenarios and RMG templates. Talking about the script side, some change to make the event system look more like what's present in HoMM4 might happen at some point.


Thanks!

That would be great i love making maps

Picolan is there gonna be map making inmprovements? decoration tiles?

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rdeford
rdeford


Known Hero
Wyld Mapper
posted June 02, 2018 03:15 PM

I LOVE this mod! It takes me back to before HOMM was ruined by Ubisoft. Thanks.

I have started making some HoTa maps where my wife and  I can play as a team against the AI. Where is the best place for me to post them so other like minded couples can play them?
____________
-------------
Mage of Soquim

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 03, 2018 09:53 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 10:09, 03 Jun 2018.

Docent_Picolan said:
Talking about the script side, some change to make the event system look more like what's present in HoMM4 might happen at some point.

Sir_Juas said:
I like how that sounds

Me too! Thx.


rdeford said:
I have started making some HoTa maps where my wife and  I can play as a team against the AI. Where is the best place for me to post them so other like minded couples can play them?

www.maps4heroes.com (?)

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 03, 2018 11:23 PM

Congratulations from HotA Crew to Dawidu for winning the Polish Championship! A well-deserved victory.


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sirironfist
sirironfist


Adventuring Hero
Master of the Sword
posted June 05, 2018 09:23 PM
Edited by sirironfist at 21:27, 05 Jun 2018.

Haven't played in a while so the 1.5.3 is new for me rn. I don't understand how people can freak out about the resistance thingy so much.
Did you realise protection spells have been improved as well? I almost never picked resistance before, only if forced. And I also never casted protection spells. With these new changes I'd actually consider doing both (as a single player gamer in 99% of cases).
In the vanilla game if you wanted that "perfect" hero you would almost always end up having the same secondary skills. Changing the game so that the rest of the skills becomes a viable option too seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Also that "don't you change my Homm3 mechanics" attitude is one reason why the Heroes franchise ended up the way it did.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted June 06, 2018 02:38 AM

sirironfist said:
I don't understand how people can freak out about the resistance thingy so much.


20% was fair... And so is the Hota change but... less fun IMO
I think it's more the global direction taken past 1.5 on philosophical level that bothers a few more than Resistance alone though. I used to love Hota because of how faithful it was to the original, even with the balance changes. Hota remains undeniably an outstanding mod of great quality, but it feels too different to me now, and if I want to feel a different h3, I have Era and VCMI which are modder-friendly...

sirironfist said:
Also that "don't you change my Homm3 mechanics" attitude is one reason why the Heroes franchise ended up the way it did.


100% disagree. Despite many similarities h5 does have its fair share of differences with h3 mechanics (more than Hota) and that game was successful -even if miraculously saved by Tote. I hate the graphics but the gameplay was there. H4 and h6 are the most different from h3 mechanics and both failed. H7 had h6 as a basis camouflaged with frankenstein features from all other games so that didn't go well either.
____________
He JVC taught us how to use skeletons. -Ghost

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Adventuring Hero
posted June 06, 2018 02:43 AM

"I think it's more the global direction taken past 1.5 on philosophical level that bothers a few more than Resistance alone though."

Could you please expand on that? What bothers you, precisely?

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted June 06, 2018 11:52 AM

And in line with that: do you think NWC/3DO would never have done such a change? If not, why not? If so, what would your disposition towards it be, then?
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 06, 2018 07:38 PM

Well, they released 2 expansions and neither AB or SOD made any of previous mechanics - obviously already implemented in hundreds of custom maps - incompatible. The resistance thing (+ usage of tomes) makes some RoE/AB/SOD maps unplayable. The backside is that you don't know which are playable or not until you screw it. So the whole map database is on the edge, that's it.

Just to answer to your question. I don't think this is penalizing or anything, people can play hota maps with Hota then previous with SoD/complete.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted June 06, 2018 07:41 PM

I don't get it either... even the witch hut thing... I mean who cares about an obvious flaw in the first place that wasn't resolved? In the end you already used worthless transport heroes to scout the hut, wasting some movement points but nothing really dramatic.

Same for Resistance, it was near to useless in the first place. You still have Unicorns, Dwarfs and Golems that may deal with this issue in different ways.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 06, 2018 07:52 PM

Maxed Thorgrim with all resistance artifacts is an hair pulling challenge in Eternal Love campaign and map ( + dozens of less famous scenarios as well). He is as difficult and unique to deal as Crag or Tazar and is a nice touch. Also, they didn't change resistance because it was useless but because skilled mp players complained about its effects being too random and possibly changing the outcome, regardless playing skill. Which was exactly what was to like about.  

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nordos
nordos


Known Hero
posted June 06, 2018 07:54 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
I don't get it either... even the witch hut thing... I mean who cares about an obvious flaw in the first place that wasn't resolved? In the end you already used worthless transport heroes to scout the hut, wasting some movement points but nothing really dramatic.

Same for Resistance, it was near to useless in the first place. You still have Unicorns, Dwarfs and Golems that may deal with this issue in different ways.


I really, really like the witch hut change. Often I did not have a secondary hero near my main as I explored in enemy territory (mostly because my secondary hero can't keep up without logistic and picking up stuff...^^)
So, I used to save whenever I visited a witch hut - or more importantly, a scholar. Now though? It feels so much better to not reload every time I take the risk to visit the hut to find my hero with a First Aid skill ....

I personally am in favor of revamping old skills as well. I don't have much of an opinion regarding resistance (still a skill I deem useless, tbh), but I would really like to have some other trash skills to be elevated to usefullness. Just imagine - you get eagle eye and your first reaction isn't to curse the RNG gods for giving your hero such an useless, trash skill! Or changing the 'perfect Hero' set up, which includes more or less the same skills (Logistic, Earth Magic, ...).

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted June 06, 2018 08:11 PM

Didn't wog already boost near useless secondary skills, or am i smoking crack?

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted June 06, 2018 09:01 PM
Edited by Sav at 21:03, 06 Jun 2018.

Salamandre said:
Well, they released 2 expansions and neither AB or SOD made any of previous mechanics - obviously already implemented in hundreds of custom maps - incompatible. The resistance thing (+ usage of tomes) makes some RoE/AB/SOD maps unplayable.

That is not entirely true. Such additions as adding artifact sets, fix of Gremlin Rush, adding moat damage, changing some objects and creatures stats can break maps. For example, any RoE map with all three necro-artifacts becomes broken when we move it from RoE to SoD.

The tomes of magic in HotA in SoD maps have all spells, including the restricted ones. This is no more compatibility problem (and it was solved long ago, in 1.4.0). Still, there are some other problems: with fly mechanics, with new artifacts etc.

Obviously, the map compatibility cannot be 100% kept when the gameplay is changed. And the gameplay change is (and always was) one of the main sides of HotA. The only more or less full solution is to implement the specific "compatibility mode" for the maps of older formats we have this in plans, but it is not easy to do. Also, in many cases the incompatibilities are easy to fix (or at least possible to fix / remake) in map editor, and users can create HotA versions of popular maps.

In case of resistance there are plans of saving both versions of it as separate skills (old one banned by default). Still, I cannot currently say when it will be implemented.

Salamandre said:
Also, they didn't change resistance because it was useless

It was useless in general gameplay, and it was one of the reasons.

Salamandre said:
but because skilled mp players complained about its effects being too random and possibly changing the outcome, regardless playing skill.

The change was made not because someone was complaining, but because of our view on well-balanced, interesting and healthy gameplay. Of course, our view was based in particular on multiplayer practice.


Galaad said:
I used to love Hota because of how faithful it was to the original, even with the balance changes. Hota remains undeniably an outstanding mod of great quality, but it feels too different to me now, and if I want to feel a different h3, I have Era and VCMI which are modder-friendly...

You had first written such words (and had said you had stopped playing HotA) after 1.5.0 was released. After the release of 1.5.3 you keep repeating this in HotA threads again and again. It is ok that you have an opinion, but posting this single opinion so much times, to every new person in HotA threads, seems strange to me (especially taking into account that you no more play HotA).

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Docent_Picolan
Docent_Picolan


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted June 06, 2018 09:18 PM

Quote:
I think it's more the global direction taken past 1.5 on philosophical level

There haven't been any changes to the project's philosophy. Version 1.5 altered nothing in the HotA concept, and nothing of the sort is being planned. As a rule, most decisions about added content and features are in place months, if not years prior to the actual releases. In HotA, nothing is ever done on a whim.

Regarding Resistance, everything has been said and regurgitated already. The new mechanic will eventually be added as a new skill, and the original one will be preserved, albeit disabled on most default templates and maps (Thorgrim will retain his specialty). It has also been said that the current state of the skill is a temporary measure to support the balance in online gameplay; this is not the final layout. Moreover, HotA_launcher.exe currently features a toggle to switch the game back to the old mechanic. Considering the above, seeing posters still complain months after the initial announcement makes no sense at all.

Quote:
The resistance thing (+ usage of tomes) makes some RoE/AB/SOD maps unplayable.

Currently, the original scenarios aren't guaranteed to be supported in HotA. Full backwards compatibility to preserve RoE/AB/SoD gameplay on the corresponding maps is a separate task that is yet to be decided upon.

As is stands at the moment of this post, there exist precisely zero user created scenarios of notable quality that leverage the Resistance skill. The recurring lamentations concerning scenarios that were reportedly made unplayable by altering the Resistance skill are getting rather ridiculous, considering there are no such scenarios for HotA in the first place. One should also keep in mind that SoD maps have been formally unplayable since the very first HotA release.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted June 06, 2018 09:33 PM

Docent_Picolan said:
One should also keep in mind that SoD maps have been formally unplayable since the very first HotA release.


Yep, and that was my point, which was a direct answer to:

Maurice said:
And in line with that: do you think NWC/3DO would never have done such a change? If not, why not? If so, what would your disposition towards it be, then?


My time schedule has radically changed and I have no more time to play Heroes at all; if I had some I would for sure dedicate to Hota too, those xxl maps are very tempting. So, making the point about a break in the compatibility is not lamenting, but only as an argument to the previous question: I don't believe NWC would have change something which would alter the previous mechanics until full incompatibility. Of course, this remains speculation, as both vanilla expansion came out in very short delays, not like hota - 15 years later, where opinions about what is great and what is useless are now already in stone.

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