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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 326 pages long: 1 40 80 120 160 200 240 280 ... 313 314 315 316 317 ... 320 326 · «PREV / NEXT»
Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted July 08, 2018 08:17 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 20:35, 08 Jul 2018.

that's a pretty old idea. wonder how many people do not know it exists

Pgarxot said:
I ask, ¿couldn't the simultaneous be modified to automatically deactivates as soon as red or blue entered in a "conflict zone"? With this i want to say, not visiting an enemy mine or another building or attacking enemy hero, but entering an area of the map that has been visited by the opponent.


that's how i thought it was working, until recently, when i found out it was not the case

if Blue attacks Red then Red has to repeat his turn. but if Red attacks Blue then game continues, since Simultaneous Turns work only on a given turn

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foerno
foerno


Hired Hero
posted July 09, 2018 04:41 AM
Edited by foerno at 04:42, 09 Jul 2018.

Lth3 said:
that's a pretty old idea. wonder how many people do not know it exists

Pgarxot said:
I ask, ¿couldn't the simultaneous be modified to automatically deactivates as soon as red or blue entered in a "conflict zone"? With this i want to say, not visiting an enemy mine or another building or attacking enemy hero, but entering an area of the map that has been visited by the opponent.


that's how i thought it was working, until recently, when i found out it was not the case

if Blue attacks Red then Red has to repeat his turn. but if Red attacks Blue then game continues, since Simultaneous Turns work only on a given turn


i think it's working fine. if blue attacks red, then it's blue who has to wait until the turn is over and then repeat their turn.

if red attacks blue, then the game just continues for red and after red has finished their turn, blue will play theirs.

keep in mind that during a player's turn, they don't see their opponent moving - they just see their positions from last turn.

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dodo_bird
dodo_bird


Adventuring Hero
posted July 09, 2018 08:13 AM

It makes no difference who attacks. When sim turns is interrupted, red always continue their turn and blue's action is rolled back.

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted July 09, 2018 11:12 AM

While I will never be fond of the Forge idea, the subject somewhat resurfaced nowadays in light of Greg Fultons interview.

I'm recently playing a board game called Lords of Hellas, and its theme is based around techno-Ancient Greece. Basically it's Greek mythology (Heroes, Monster, Quests), but with a twist in which, while Ancient Greece had its Dark Age, a civilization from space appeared and it's revered as gods, while they bestowed technology to the people, and now it has robots, lasers and other sci-fi tropes.



My point is, if Heroes III teased more of it's sci-fi origins, the idea could've been incorporated to the game itself...

Would it be the game we all know and love? No idea...

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted July 09, 2018 01:20 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 13:33, 09 Jul 2018.

foerno said:
Lth3 said:
Pgarxot said:
I ask, ¿couldn't the simultaneous be modified to automatically deactivates as soon as red or blue entered in a "conflict zone"? With this i want to say, not visiting an enemy mine or another building or attacking enemy hero, but entering an area of the map that has been visited by the opponent.


that's how i thought it was working, until recently, when i found out it was not the case

if Blue attacks Red then Red has to repeat his turn. but if Red attacks Blue then game continues, since Simultaneous Turns work only on a given turn


i think it's working fine. if blue attacks red, then it's blue who has to wait until the turn is over and then repeat their turn.

if red attacks blue, then the game just continues for red and after red has finished their turn, blue will play theirs.

keep in mind that during a player's turn, they don't see their opponent moving - they just see their positions from last turn.


dodo_bird said:
It makes no difference who attacks. When sim turns is interrupted, red always continue their turn and blue's action is rolled back.


you both are missing the point. it's not about whether it resumes or not. important is whether you can see what opponent did last turn and able to react. Red is always safe and can replay the turn and see all moves before making it's turn, while Blue is always in the unknown. Blue can only see moves made on the previous day, that is, if it's Day 3 for example, Blue only sees moves made on Day 2, so on Day 3 Red is moving in the shadows and then on Day 4 can attack Blue freely and the game continues. so in the end, while Red attacked Blue on Day 4, Blue only was able to see what Red did on Day 2

practical example:

let's say Red wants to make a surprise attack on Blue's town but cannot reach it in 1 day. no problem, as Blue cannot see him on the given day so he gets a whole extra day to do that, without Blue being able to react by buying extra army or whatever

that's why it's crucial regardless of colour for SimTurns to revert to the previous day so both players can see what their opponent did before making their move

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PGarxot
PGarxot

Tavern Dweller
posted July 09, 2018 07:32 PM
Edited by PGarxot at 19:33, 09 Jul 2018.

Exactly Lth3

+1

As the saying goes "None so blind as those who will not see"

Greetings

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted July 12, 2018 04:20 PM

Can someone tell me which HOTA version made playing online with Gameranger impossible? Was it already 1.5 or a later one?
Currently Hota is unplayable for me since I always play using Gameranger. And I don't think it is a good idea to only rely on the new online servers, who knows how long they will be up.
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39912&PID=1465571#focus
Rolling my game back to an old HOTA version is the only "workaround" I can currently imagine... =/

About simultanous turns:
Just in case the idea of "zones of conflict" will be implemented, please make it optional. I hate this zone of conflict thing, cause it forces you to always play without sim turns after some time. This especially sucks if you play with 4 humans a COOP against AI, this is no fun without sim turns (or zones of conflict).
If you play human vs human you already have a good alternative, which is to control neutral units.

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Javiduc
Javiduc


Adventuring Hero
posted July 12, 2018 09:00 PM

Maybe allowing blue to replay its previous turn so red has no chances of surprise attack as blue hasnt now.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2018 12:42 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 12:42, 13 Jul 2018.

Javiduc said:
Maybe allowing blue to replay its previous turn so red has no chances of surprise attack as blue hasnt now.


sounds like the best option for guaranteed fairness and stability. however, this means an automatic autosave of some kind has to be implemented

as far as ST goes, it is already brilliant, and this one small detail is what's keeping it from its full potential, in my opinion

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2018 02:46 PM

Simultaneous turns work this way from the moment they've appeared. After both players finished their turns in case there is some conflict in the situation (or during the turn in case one player attacks another) the game continues, ST are swithed off, and blue must repeat his turn in normal mode.


Serp said:
Can someone tell me which HOTA version made playing online with Gameranger impossible? Was it already 1.5 or a later one?

There was a problem in 1.5 that it was impossible to load game in gameranger. I thought I've fixed that in one of the later updates (I've disabled one of the changes in case the game runs with the specific gameranger key). Maybe something has changed in gameranger and it uses another key.

I don't know any other problems with gameranger.

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Jluil
Jluil

Tavern Dweller
posted July 13, 2018 05:17 PM

Sim turns

I think one solution to sim turns attacking could also be that the player who attacks always gets to play first.
So that if blue attacks red first the play order would be actually switched and blue will now always go first, but this might be tricky to implement.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2018 06:40 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 18:41, 13 Jul 2018.

Sav said:
Simultaneous turns work this way from the moment they've appeared. After both players finished their turns in case there is some conflict in the situation (or during the turn in case one player attacks another) the game continues, ST are swithed off, and blue must repeat his turn in normal mode.


this is either not true, or not always the case. and it is the reason why people set ST only for 1st or 2nd week most. even on XL+U templates. this is the reason why ST cannot be utilized for the whole game (until meet) for most casual games

as i've stated in my previous example. a common scenario that can occur:

Red attacks Blue's town without Blue being able to see Red in time and buy army or defend town. R-red / B-blue

Day 1: R / B, normal turn, nothing happens

Day 2: R / B, red player starts approaching blue player town, but does not reach it, leaves his hero halfway. blue cannot see red coming on this turn and buy army or do something about it

Day 3: R / B, blue player can now see that red player was coming his way, but it does not matter, since blue player actions now are meaningles, because red player has the priority. so red continues his way and takes blue player unprotected town without blue player being able to react to this on Day 2 (unable to see what red played did on day 2)

and so on Day 3 red player attacks blue without blue player being able to utilize Day 2 to make appropriate moves for town defense

i hope i made this clear


my solution: always revert to previous day ( Day 2 in case of the above example ), before engaging in battle or showing battle screen

temporary solution possible now: load Autosave manually. downside: not everyone understands the mechanics of how it works. and also battle screen is opened and critical information - opponent army, stats shown

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2018 07:18 PM

Oh, sorry. Yes, now I've understood the situation, and it is real problem (in fact it was found long ago).

But anyway, replaying turs in multiplayer is very specific thing, and players try to avoid it when possible. So, replaying 2 turns won't change the fact that ST are set up only for the firts days (number depends on template) by default.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2018 08:01 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 20:01, 13 Jul 2018.

i personally see that Simultaneous Turns is just too good of an invention to just use it for the first few days. only exception i can think of right now is Jebus Cross. how many times have you seen the game go to 211 or even 221 on 6lm10a or 8mm6a? while ST for that is up to 2nd week, 3rd the most

i understand tournament games, where every little margin of error and bit of detail matters, then least amount of interference - shortest length of ST is preferable - or no ST at all. but for most regular, casual games, the marginal difference is really small whether played with or without ST

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted July 14, 2018 05:19 PM

Sav said:

Serp said:
Can someone tell me which HOTA version made playing online with Gameranger impossible? Was it already 1.5 or a later one?

There was a problem in 1.5 that it was impossible to load game in gameranger. I thought I've fixed that in one of the later updates (I've disabled one of the changes in case the game runs with the specific gameranger key). Maybe something has changed in gameranger and it uses another key.
I don't know any other problems with gameranger.

The "impossible to load" issue is exactly what I'm talking about (see bug report thread I linked). I'm playing with latest HD and Hota 1.5.3. I created a new HD-HOTA exe, renamded it to HEROES3.exe and added it to gameranger. But it is impossible to load a game, cause the the clients are always directed to "new game" instead.

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 14, 2018 06:12 PM
Edited by Sav at 18:14, 14 Jul 2018.

Serp said:

The "impossible to load" issue is exactly what I'm talking about (see bug report thread I linked). I'm playing with latest HD and Hota 1.5.3. I created a new HD-HOTA exe, renamded it to HEROES3.exe and added it to gameranger. But it is impossible to load a game, cause the the clients are always directed to "new game" instead.

It is the problem of Gameranger, not HotA. I don't know why it directs to the game to "new game" — probably just a mistake. In HotA it is impossible to connect to "load game" via "new game" unlike in SoD (to prevent bugs), this leads to the conflicts with Gameranger. But I've tried to disable this fix in case the game is loaded via Gameranger (the case is checked by checking command line arguments). Seems that this kind of checking doesn't work (or works no more). I don't know how to check the game is run via Gameranger then.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 17, 2018 06:52 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:17, 17 Jul 2018.

A question for HotA Crew:
Do you guys plan to rework Mysticism in the near future?
Not only is the mana gained each day very small, (same as a treasure artifact) but there are many features that makes the skill completely useless, like Mana Vortices, Magic Springs, Wells, staying in a town with Mage Guild, Wizard's Well or having Town Portal and going straight for a Dungeon with Mana Vortex or just Town Portal to stay the night in another town.
There are just so many things that makes Mysticism useless, so even if it were to recover a lot of mana each day, Intelligence would probably still be better.
Can Mysticism be redeemed somehow?

Edit: I actually have a great idea that will make Mysticism useful even with all the above taken into account and when defending a town:
Basic Mysticism - Reduces cost of combat spells by 1. (To a minimum of 2 mana.)
Advanced Mysticism - Reduces cost of combat spells by 2. (To a minimum of 2 mana.)
Expert Mysticism - Reduces cost of combat spells by 3. (To a minimum of 2 mana.)
The 4 heroes who specialise in Mysticism will get their usual +5% per level, so they can potentially lower spell cost even further, but still to a minimum of 2 mana.

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 18, 2018 10:20 AM
Edited by Sav at 10:22, 18 Jul 2018.

Yes, we have plans to improve this skill (cannot say, in near future or not). But the fix probably will be simple (changing numbers and recover percents instead of points or so). And yes, mysticism will probably remain below-average skill and mostly useful for heroes-supporters, it will be just not completely useless like now.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 18, 2018 10:36 AM

Thanks for the answer Sav.
Well I'm happy to hear that, but sounds like wells, mana vortex etc. will still make the skill useless, which is a little sad.
You did'nt like my idea of how to improve the skill?

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 18, 2018 01:03 PM

Well, changing cost of the spells is the promising direction of ideas that can be implemented some way. But I am not sure it is necessary to make mysticism a must-have skill like intelligence (in current gameplay). Mana restoring can help in many situations: if you want to visit well, you'll have to spent movepoints, Wizard Well wastes artifact slots (when enemy can attack), mana vortex works only once a week (and for one hero).
Anyway, nothing is finally dicided yet, I've just described the most probable way.

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