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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 319 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 60 120 180 240 300 ... 315 316 317 318 319 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 18, 2018 01:30 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:39, 18 Jul 2018.

Well there is a limit to how many must-have skills you can have on one hero and it's still not in the same league as Earth Magic, Air Magic, Logistics or Wisdom. (And might heroes usually have a hard time learning Mysticism.)
But thanks for the answer, nice to know you are at least considering improving it.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Adventuring Hero
posted July 19, 2018 12:42 AM

Sav said:
Yes, we have plans to improve this skill (cannot say, in near future or not). But the fix probably will be simple (changing numbers and recover percents instead of points or so). And yes, mysticism will probably remain below-average skill and mostly useful for heroes-supporters, it will be just not completely useless like now.


Extremely happy to hear this. I've spend some time thinking how the worst secondary skills could be better. Skill such as First Aid remain really bad even if the tent would heal ALL of target creature's HP.

However, if Mysticism would refresh ALL mana each day, that suddenly sounds extremely good, because we know wizard's well is a good artifact, and getting Expert Mysticism would be easier than grabbing the three mana regen artifacts.

So there must be a "sweet spot" somewhere between the current values of mysticism and it giving full mana.

However, as you said, the skill would still probably remain below-average, and choosing it over something else would most likely be a "bad play" in majority of cases. Food for thought, I would say.

One very niche way of giving boost to bad skills could be to tie them into some of the existing or upcoming map objects. Thus they would act like Diplomacy affects to Library of Enlightenment. For example Learning could cut the price you have to pay in School of War. [/suggestions]

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 19, 2018 01:12 AM

Hey dear developers, I have a question.

Is it possible to make Tower a little more viable in PVP matches? You could do that by for example adding a new hero, as I believe Tower heroes are all useless right now.

Maybe one who would start with pathfinding and earth or pathfinding and logistics? Or maybe Gremlin specialist?

I think the problem with Tower is quite serious now as you can't really see an online match where the Tower player doesn't start with 5-6k gold advantage from the trade phase.

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baratorch
baratorch


Promising
Adventuring Hero
posted July 19, 2018 03:28 AM

Serp said:
Can someone tell me which HOTA version made playing online with Gameranger impossible? Was it already 1.5 or a later one?


I do not understand why you need a Gameranger in July 2018?
Why do not you use the Online Lobby, which is built into the HD-mod?

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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 19, 2018 10:02 AM

Hourglass said:
Extremely happy to hear this. I've spend some time thinking how the worst secondary skills could be better. Skill such as First Aid remain really bad even if the tent would heal ALL of target creature's HP.


i would be picking this skill a lot if it gave full HP. you gotta remember to balance PvE with PvP games on such matters. tent that can restore full HP to lvl 7 units is an early game killer

revolut1oN said:
I think the problem with Tower is quite serious now as you can't really see an online match where the Tower player doesn't start with 5-6k gold advantage from the trade phase.


some towns are harder and some easier to play. that's the point of Trading

maybe reduce the initial resource cost for lvl 4 and implement Mr.Gandalf's suggestion for + more SP for Wizards - and it's a g2g town

baratorch said:
I do not understand why you need a Gameranger in July 2018?
Why do not you use the Online Lobby, which is built into the HD-mod?


hello, sir. how is your day?

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 19, 2018 10:27 AM

Gameranger is third-party software. So it's better to make own gameranger (hota ojline) lobby than to ensure compatibility with someone else software.
____________

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 19, 2018 10:49 AM

revolut1oN said:
I think the problem with Tower is quite serious now as you can't really see an online match where the Tower player doesn't start with 5-6k gold advantage from the trade phase.

It is true for Jebus Cross template. This template is hard to balance and the towns on snow/swamp will probably remain weak anyway.
But on XL+U (primarily 6lm10a) Tower is an average town thanks to the great advantage: Library in the magic guild, that gives not only +1 spell every level, but also a second slot for research on level 5 (and in general the difference between towns is not very big on XL+U), so in case of huge boost (that is necessary to balance it on Jebus Cross) Tower can become overpowered on XL+U.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 19, 2018 10:56 AM

Sav said:
Well, changing cost of the spells is the promising direction of ideas that can be implemented some way. But I am not sure it is necessary to make mysticism a must-have skill like intelligence (in current gameplay). Mana restoring can help in many situations: if you want to visit well, you'll have to spent movepoints, Wizard Well wastes artifact slots (when enemy can attack), mana vortex works only once a week (and for one hero).
Anyway, nothing is finally dicided yet, I've just described the most probable way.


Sounds perfect to me... 25% every day is quite something. I personaly like this outcome.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 19, 2018 11:41 AM

Lth3 said:
i would be picking this skill a lot if it gave full HP. you gotta remember to balance PvE with PvP games on such matters. tent that can restore full HP to lvl 7 units is an early game killer

Remember the tent only has 75 HP and 0 defense. You also need to find a place to buy a tent, in the first place.
Also who is gonna perform first aid on the first aid tent, when it is in need of first aid? Oh never mind, it gets obliterated by anyone looking at it anyway.

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FrothFrenzy
FrothFrenzy

Tavern Dweller
posted July 19, 2018 12:21 PM
Edited by FrothFrenzy at 12:31, 19 Jul 2018.

One solution could be to get the ability to heal without the first aid tent if you have the skill, but with reduced effectiveness. Another could be to get the replacement tent automatically even if it is destroyed in a battle (this sounds sensible to me). Losing the tent while having the skill is a real problem, as the skill becomes completely useless. Compare with artillery where at least you still retain the ability to control towers during a defense, and the war machine is harder to take down.

Perhaps an old suggestion where the tent effectively resurrects creatures should be considered also. However, make it so "dead HP" is worth more, like 3-4 HP of healing instead of the regular amount. In this case the tent should have a limited number of uses to prevent something like blind + resurrect to 0 losses combinations.

The general idea is to get a synergy where the skill is working with high-defense heroes that may also have armorer, like Tazar, as the HP restored is worth more.

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 19, 2018 12:47 PM

Lth3 said:

some towns are harder and some easier to play. that's the point of Trading


That is not true at all. You do not pay for a town being easy to play but for its sheer power.

For example you usually pay tons of gold for Luna and Conflux which is not easy gameplay at all. You need to carefully build up her power, 1 morale can finish your game if your not careful enough. Anti magic or fast guard means death.
Same with Galthran, extremely powerful but not so easy to play, needs good target picking, finding gradually bigger and bigger banks and great chain of skeleton farming heroes.

My point is - you pay for power not for easy gameplay.

@Sav, thanks for the reply, seems fair enough. Still the biggest Tower problem which is present on all templates is snow and its huge movement penalty. Its not only Jebus problem, you basically suffer everytime you take a bank in your zone.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Adventuring Hero
posted July 19, 2018 12:55 PM
Edited by Maurice at 13:52, 20 Jul 2018.

Lth3 said:
i would be picking this skill a lot if it gave full HP. you gotta remember to balance PvE with PvP games on such matters. tent that can restore full HP to lvl 7 units is an early game killer




Sure the skill sounds more appealing if it would heal all HP, but the the general issues of the skill would still be there. As Phoenix4ever mentioned, the skill is based on 75 hp tent. But that's not all of the story.

Only heroes that you would constantly get the situation you mentioned would be the three heroes with First Aid speciality. However, that's not very different from the situation we have now: A high level Gem, Verdish and Rion will likely heal all of the missing HP anyways. Still, I don't see them being highly ranked.

The situation where you are able to heal lvl 7 creatures early game is quite rare with all other heroes. You would need both Expert First Aid and the Tent.

First aid is a magic related skill, so all might heroes will have a hard time learning it naturally. DK's and necromancer's won't even be able to learn it by just leveling up. (too bad, since they're the one of the 3 towns who can actually buy the tent from their blacksmith.) And I don't think players would take first aid if it pops up, if they would not see a way of picking up the tent anywhere.

Sure, you could run into Witch hut or even university where you could learn the skill to your hero. However, you would still need the tent, which is likely even more difficult to obtain.

Only 3 towns sell it in their blacksmiths, and there's a good chance that the 3 first aid spelialist would not show up in tavern. The last way to obtain the tent would be to find a war machine factory, but even that doesn't show up in every map.

So, there's quite a hassle to even you get into the situation where you would gain any value out of the skill. And the tent in it's current state heals 100 hp (on expert), which is almost full hp to all lvl 6 creatures - healing more than that would only be remarkably good for upg. tier 7 creatures.

I've not even started to discuss about the thing you would need to replace the tent every time it gets destroyed, the thing that even in PvE the computer actually targets your tent, and that you would actually have to sacrifice one of your secondary skill slots in order to have first aid aswell.

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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 19, 2018 06:52 PM
Edited by Lth3 at 18:53, 19 Jul 2018.

that's still a good deal if it can restore 300HP to AB, or 750 HP to Azure Dragon. even if it has 30HP who cares. don't give your opponent chance to target your Tent - rush his shooters immediately

Ballista has double damage capability, same for Catapult. Tent could also have chance to double heal from advanced Aid. expert could be for 2x targets or for whole army even lol

but for me tent is good as it is. it's just not a primary skill to have

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted July 19, 2018 07:01 PM

Sav said:
Serp said:

The "impossible to load" issue is exactly what I'm talking about (see bug report thread I linked). I'm playing with latest HD and Hota 1.5.3. I created a new HD-HOTA exe, renamded it to HEROES3.exe and added it to gameranger. But it is impossible to load a game, cause the the clients are always directed to "new game" instead.

It is the problem of Gameranger, not HotA. I don't know why it directs to the game to "new game" probably just a mistake. In HotA it is impossible to connect to "load game" via "new game" unlike in SoD (to prevent bugs), this leads to the conflicts with Gameranger. But I've tried to disable this fix in case the game is loaded via Gameranger (the case is checked by checking command line arguments). Seems that this kind of checking doesn't work (or works no more). I don't know how to check the game is run via Gameranger then.

So again for amateurs like me:
Why is gameranger+HOTA then working fine with version lower than 1.5?
Can't you undo what you changed since then for gameranger? Or are you saying that even older versions do not work anymore (did not tested with old version yet)

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted July 19, 2018 07:08 PM

baratorch said:
Serp said:
Can someone tell me which HOTA version made playing online with Gameranger impossible? Was it already 1.5 or a later one?


I do not understand why you need a Gameranger in July 2018?
Why do not you use the Online Lobby, which is built into the HD-mod?

Thank you baratorch for your incredible work with the online lobby I already tested it and works fine so far

I just thought in the end it would be better to have as many possibilities to play onlien, as possible. I know too many games that had fanmade servers once, but after few years also they were shut down. So since there is no gurantee that HD-online servers are still online in several years, I thought having gameranger as an working alternative is necessary.

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Lth3
Lth3


Adventuring Hero
posted July 19, 2018 07:32 PM

revolut1oN said:
That is not true at all. You do not pay for a town being easy to play but for its sheer power.

For example you usually pay tons of gold for Luna and Conflux which is not easy gameplay at all. You need to carefully build up her power, 1 morale can finish your game if your not careful enough. Anti magic or fast guard means death.
Same with Galthran, extremely powerful but not so easy to play, needs good target picking, finding gradually bigger and bigger banks and great chain of skeleton farming heroes.

My point is - you pay for power not for easy gameplay.

@Sav, thanks for the reply, seems fair enough. Still the biggest Tower problem which is present on all templates is snow and its huge movement penalty. Its not only Jebus problem, you basically suffer everytime you take a bank in your zone.


Sav is just playing with you. everybody knows Tower is the 2nd strongest choice after Inferno. then comes Stronghold, Castle or smth like that. and we're not talking about Jebus - it's a poor man's template anyways

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted July 19, 2018 09:48 PM

Serp said:
Sav said:

It is the problem of Gameranger, not HotA. I don't know why it directs to the game to "new game" probably just a mistake. In HotA it is impossible to connect to "load game" via "new game" unlike in SoD (to prevent bugs), this leads to the conflicts with Gameranger. But I've tried to disable this fix in case the game is loaded via Gameranger (the case is checked by checking command line arguments). Seems that this kind of checking doesn't work (or works no more). I don't know how to check the game is run via Gameranger then.

So again for amateurs like me:
Why is gameranger+HOTA then working fine with version lower than 1.5?
Can't you undo what you changed since then for gameranger? Or are you saying that even older versions do not work anymore (did not tested with old version yet)

Gameranger has a bug that makes it incombatible with one of HotA fixes (introduced in 1.5). I won't undo it as the fix is more important than compatibility with gameranger. I don't know how to check if the game is run under gameranger. I've tried, but it doesn't work. If someone knows it let me know.
That's enough, I won't comment the gameranger problem anymore.

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Serp
Serp


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2018 12:57 PM

Sav said:

Gameranger has a bug that makes it incombatible with one of HotA fixes (introduced in 1.5). I won't undo it as the fix is more important than compatibility with gameranger. I don't know how to check if the game is run under gameranger. I've tried, but it doesn't work. If someone knows it let me know.
That's enough, I won't comment the gameranger problem anymore.

Thank you for your patience while explaining the problem to me, now I understood
So let's hope you can also play online via HD Lobby in 5-10 years =/

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 20, 2018 01:34 PM
Edited by Maurice at 13:53, 20 Jul 2018.

Serp said:

So let's hope you can also play online via HD Lobby in 5-10 years =/


No need to be sarcastic. There's no guarantees that gameranger will last 5-10 years. And still I suspect that you're banned at HotA lobby so now you are gameranger addicted.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted July 20, 2018 11:17 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:19, 20 Jul 2018.

avatar said:
There's no guarantees that gameranger will last 5-10 years.

My thoughts exactly. I easily imagine a recent fan made facility for a 20 years old game still working in ten years then a background compatibility to a 30 years old game from a for profit company even if they last that long.
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